Hello, I finally got my car to the Local Tuner to get tuned / dynoed.

Looks like the max he got out it is 274whp. This is on a Mustang Dyno and 90octane fuel, and at 23psi with a spike of 25psi.
My mods are listed in profile.

I was told my fuel is holding me back and it just wants to knock. He said he had to add a lot of fuel to get it there, and when he went to add timing it just knocked.
So I plan on adding water / meth injection to get the temps down and hopefully be able to get more out of it.
Also he recommended getting a better boost controller as he said mine is not precise and hard to tune with. (Hallman Pro MBC) recommended getting an AEM Truboost. So I may look into that as well.

Other than that it pulls real nice and fast. I was hoping for more hp out of it but it is what it is.
Here is my Dyno Sheet that he emailed me.
And here is just a log I did after the tune cruising around. No real hard pulls.

PrimerPLus said:

Hello, I finally got my car to the Local Tuner to get tuned / dynoed.

Looks like the max he got out it is 274whp. This is on a Mustang Dyno and 90octane fuel, and at 23psi with a spike of 25psi.
My mods are listed in profile.

I was told my fuel is holding me back and it just wants to knock. He said he had to add a lot of fuel to get it there, and when he went to add timing it just knocked.
So I plan on adding water / meth injection to get the temps down and hopefully be able to get more out of it.
Also he recommended getting a better boost controller as he said mine is not precise and hard to tune with. (Hallman Pro MBC) recommended getting an AEM Truboost. So I may look into that as well.

Other than that it pulls real nice and fast. I was hoping for more hp out of it but it is what it is.
Here is my Dyno Sheet that he emailed me.
And here is just a log I did after the tune cruising around. No real hard pulls.

Click to expand...

Add 1 gal of e85 if available to every 3 gal of pump gas. Will bump you up to about 94 octane. Will basically be e30. 30% E85. Shouldn't have to tweak anything. Will make that knock go away. I'm running e40 on stock injectors on 20 psi with e316g and it runs strongly. But my stock injectors are maxed. I have a Quantum Fuel 340lp pump rewired also.

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. I will try that out!

Edit: Just saw the log was from a cruise you did, not the dyno pull. Do a 3rd gear pull from 3k to redline and upload that.

My first thought is there's no way you're maxing out 1150s with a 16G on pump gas. From the log, I'm seeing a max of 21 PSI of boost. In addition, your injectors show 30% IDC during the WOT pull, which is nothing.

For starters, it looks like you may need to adjust your TPS. There's on one place in the log where you went WOT (982.7 seconds), and at that point you're only at 98% throttle.

You're real problem is your timing is WAYYYY too retarded to make any power. In the WOT pull from the log, you're never over 2 degrees of advance.

Your AFR is also pretty rich. I'd try and lean things up a bit.

If you have more log data, it would be helpful for giving further advice. I'd like to see a 3rd gear pull from about 3k to redline. With some tweaks to your tune, I think you could be making significantly more power than you currently are.

The e85 will also lean you out a bit since your running rich. And will also allow some more timing as well.

hionboost said:

Add 1 gal of e85 if available to every 3 gal of pump gas. Will bump you up to about 94 octane. Will basically be e30. 30% E85. Shouldn't have to tweak anything. Will make that knock go away. I'm running e40 on stock injectors on 20 psi with e316g and it runs strongly. But my stock injectors are maxed. I have a Quantum Fuel 340lp pump rewired also.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd go mixing fuel like you're suggesting. I think it would introduce more variables than anything. I'd concentrate on getting the tune right with whatever fuel you plan to run the majority of the time. After you get things straight, then you can play with mixing fuels and such.

The problem here is the tune, not so much the fuel IMO.

GST is correct... I didn't even see the logs. Fix that tune first or your just asking for more headaches. I was assuming it was tuned correctly. But the e30 will give you some more power after its tuned and your mpg won't suffer so much with a small mixture.

I just did a quick few pulls.

I took my car to the Tuner shop. I assume they would tune correctly.
He said he had to use a lot of fuel because it just wanted to knock if he didnt.

So, I can tell you a few things right off the bat:

You're injectors aren't even close to maxed out. You have plenty of room for more fuel.

I think your AFR is too rich.

You're timing advance is too low to make good power.

Here's what I would do. Take the logs you just posted and repost them to the ECMlink forum. Make sure you use the proper format. You can see here for what that is: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wa...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

I know it seems like a pain, but I think it will be worth it to you in the end. The best part is; it's free advice!

I will do that. Thanks for the info!

It's been my experience that low timing and pig rich causes high EGTs which in turn creates knock. Looking at the log you're very rich. Not saying that's the problem but it's probably part of it. Tracking down knock is a headache and it almost always seems to be a combination of things when you first start tuning a setup.

Stock block? Run some seafoam through it. Clean the buildup in your tbody and intake manifold. Look for anything loose on the car which can rattle. Inspect your knock sensor for black goo. And last, get a good quality intercooler. That should help with the knock.

Hmm... Those are pretty low numbers for an Evo 3 16g (Im assuming you have all the necessary supporting mods)
I had a dual map tune on 91 and e85 with a normal big 16g and made 312hp on 91 and 360hp on e85. Something in your setup is off, i know that evo 3 can give you way more than that.

Fuel tables need to be zero'ed out. The start of the knock is about were the enrichment starts.

GST with PSI said:

So, I can tell you a few things right off the bat:

You're injectors aren't even close to maxed out. You have plenty of room for more fuel.

I think your AFR is too rich.

You're timing advance is too low to make good power.

Here's what I would do. Take the logs you just posted and repost them to the ECMlink forum. Make sure you use the proper format. You can see here for what that is: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wa...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

I know it seems like a pain, but I think it will be worth it to you in the end. The best part is; it's free advice!

Click to expand...

Yeah that pull is way rich! injectors have a lot more room before being maxed out. I agree with one above post your detonation is coming from high egt's and most people feel that adding fuel will cool egt's or eliminate knock, in some cases this is true but the window for that is very narrow. I would recommend that you zero out your fuel table , and at least try to get your boost est and actual boost to line up and also work to get your est af/ratio and you wideband reading to line up this allows you to tune using the fuel tables inside direct access where you can enter a target af/ratio that will be accurate. This is the best way to tune because most don't know this when you adjust your fuel using the fuel sliders it alters the frequency some kind of way that the ecu sees to determine how much fuel to send to the injectors, problem it it also alters the timing the ecu uses which can lead to other issues like detonation.

A lot of guys don't believe it but when you have a smoother transition from on cell to the next in your ve tables it helps the ecu to work less trying to find the right cell to easily target your specified af/ratio indicated in direct access. I just recently acquired an awd dsm that has a big 16g turbo pte injectors I think they are 580cc . But take a look at this pull I did the other day. the difference in the pull before this one and the pull after the I spent some time getting the tune right is literally night and day. Everything that suppose to line up does, boost and boost est, af/ratio and af/ration est, the speed density ve has a very smooth transition for the ecu, the target af is dead on in direct access. Here's the thing if I want to change my target af/ration to lets say 11.5 I just enter that in direct access and it will give me 11.5 plain and simple. Once you get ecmlink set up right you never have to change it again unless you change your setup. More important you can work out your tuning issues pretty quickly. by the way this pull is with 93oct fuel. You can even copy this table and adjust your injectors setting and I think you will be on the right tract. I use to be very hesitant about posting my logs too much work goes into getting a tuning table of this caliper.

Everyone has there way of tuning link and you are going to get lots of suggestion try them all out eventually you will get that car right

Your VE table looks nice, probably the best one ive seen. Mine is similar, but I only accounted for cells it would actually hit, you made spent a lot of time!

keltalon said:

Everyone has there way of tuning link and you are going to get lots of suggestion try them all out eventually you will get that car right

Click to expand...

Yep! Also remember if it doesn't feel right let off. That's one of the biggest things about tuning - being able to notice small details. A little stutter, funny exhaust sound, feels like it labors a bit, not very crisp, ect. A lot of things the log won't tell you.

As a general rule I think most will agree if your in the 11-12AFR's, and in the teens for timing at high rpm, your in the ballpark. There will be some outliers, but as a general rule it applies to most standardish setups.