1G New to 4 cylinders and fuel Injection

Meteshjj · Sep 1, 2015

I have always loved DSM cars. My friend had a 91 Laser that was faster than every car we had (except my Cummins). Last week, I decided to buy one. So, for $500 I picked up an untouched, second-owner 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD w/ LSD. Aside from the K&N air filter, everything on this car is bone-stock. However, it has been sitting for 4 years.

I've gotten old (Read: unused) cars before, so I did all of the normal stuff to get it going again: Fuel pump, filters all around, cleaner sprayed through all of the hoses, etc. It only had about a gallon of fuel left in the tank, so I diluted it with 11 gallons of premium and some fuel system cleaner. This got the car to fire off of starting fluid, but nothing else.

At this point, I figured the injectors were probably toast, so for $40 I bought some black top 450cc injectors from a friend who has a 2G Eclipse. This got it to run on its own (hooray!). It wouldn't rev up past 4k, though. The same friend suggested that it could be the ECU. Being that he is a Mitsubishi mechanic, I pulled my ECU and noticed rust on the back side. He cleaned off the ECU and replaced the caps with solid-state caps and I put it back in.

Now, the car won't run past 4k unless you add fuel straight to the intake (taking place in the form of carb cleaner). Once you do that, it will rev all the way to redline until it runs out of that fuel. Normally, I'd suspect it being lean, but the tail pipe has a lot of black smoke coming from it. When I pulled the plugs, they were incredibly fouled. Cleaning them does nothing, and they foul again within minutes.

So, my two questions are: will bad fuel do that to a turbo DSM (I've never had problems with it this bad, but those cars were all v8's)? Is it possible the ECU is still dead? Any help would be appreciated. I have a fuel pressure gauge, A/F gauge, and a better boost gauge on the way as we speak, so I'll know more when they get here.

Chumpaumpalumpa · Sep 25, 2015

Meteshjj said:
UPDATE:

On the advice of a friend, I checked the throttle position sensor. It was way, way off. I took off the throttle body, gave it a good cleaning, did my best to pressure test it, and adjusted the TPS. Now, it runs pretty great. It doesn't misfire any more, it has 10-12 PSI of boost under load, and it's actually got some power.

Right now, it has trouble carrying itself above 4.5k RPMs under load, but it's not misfiring like it was before. It just doesn't seem to have the power. I'm inclined to blame it on the crappy fuel that's in it. Once I drain that tank and fill it with good fuel, I will report back with the results.

Great thanks for not abandoning the thread. Keep in mind that small tubos will choke out near the top if you push them at all. But new gas should help. On a side note, this was pretty interesting:

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1990TSIAWDTALON · Sep 26, 2015

Hmmm sure it isnt snake oil?? Wow that was pretty cool.

Meteshjj · Oct 3, 2015

So, I've been driving around a little (less than 10 miles) to see what else might be wrong, and I'm pretty sure my transmission is dead. It has no syncros left in 1st and the 2nd gear syncros aren't exactly great. Well, after slowing down at a stop light in 2nd, I came to a stop and attempted to shift into 1st. I can't. It physically won't shift.

Long story short, with a power goal of no more than 300 HP at the block, what am I going to need to rebuild it? Will stock components hold up, or should I look at some upgrades while I'm in there?

10's or bust · Oct 3, 2015

Dude the car has been sitting so don't start beating the craps ok out of it without proper maintenance. Change the slave cylinder and clutches master cylinder and save yourself the heart ache and while you're at it go ahead and change the fuel filter as any new fuel pump installed is a ticking time bomb without changing the filter as it circulating all the old debris back into the system and new fuel pump.

Lowestform · Oct 3, 2015

Where do you live that it's that cold already? Reason I ask is i live in a cold climate, and may be close to help. I'm in Edmonton.

With no power under load, you really need to do the basics first. Fuel filter and plug wires. I've chased misfires on these things and it's usually ignition.

transmission, get it rebuilt. 300hp the stock internals will hold as long as you don't beat on it every day.

Any other questions feel free to ask.

Meteshjj · Oct 3, 2015

Lowestform said:
Where do you live that it's that cold already? Reason I ask is i live in a cold climate, and may be close to help. I'm in Edmonton.

With no power under load, you really need to do the basics first. Fuel filter and plug wires. I've chased misfires on these things and it's usually ignition.

transmission, get it rebuilt. 300hp the stock internals will hold as long as you don't beat on it every day.

Any other questions feel free to ask.

I replaced the fuel filter, strainer, pump, wires, plugs, oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter again, as well as all of the sensors I've listed previously. The basic maintenance has been done. The only fluid that's old in it right now is the R12 and the fuel, which is being replaced.

Also, I live in Montana. It's currently snowing outside.

10's or bust said:
Dude the car has been sitting so don't start beating the craps ok out of it without proper maintenance. Change the slave cylinder and clutches master cylinder and save yourself the heart ache and while you're at it go ahead and change the fuel filter as any new fuel pump installed is a ticking time bomb without changing the filter as it circulating all the old debris back into the system and new fuel pump.

The clutch and slave are working correctly. I can shift with no hesitation or any problems in 3rd, 4th, or 5th. I'm not "beating the crap out of it." I have been up and down the block a few times to listen for bearings, struts, and other issues of the like. Aside from a couple of free revs to see if I could get past 4k (which I can), the car hasn't been run above maybe 3k.

At any rate, if stock internals will hold 300HP at the crank, I'm happy with those, so that's what I'll be looking for.

Chumpaumpalumpa · Oct 4, 2015

Meteshjj said:
At any rate, if stock internals will hold 300HP at the crank, I'm happy with those, so that's what I'll be looking for.

Stock internals will hold that at the WHEELS and so will the trans easy peasy if you have any skill driving a manual trans car whatsoever. Also, check this (if you got a 6 bolt you are a lucky duck with a 92): http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine. The trans will hold 400whp and if you have a 6 bolt a safe agreed upon number is around 400-420 whp reliably with some beating.

Meteshjj · Oct 4, 2015

Chumpaumpalumpa said:
Stock internals will hold that at the WHEELS and so will the trans easy peasy if you have any skill driving a manual trans car whatsoever. Also, check this (if you got a 6 bolt you are a lucky duck with a 92): http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine. The trans will hold 400whp and if you have a 6 bolt a safe agreed upon number is around 400-420 whp reliably with some beating.

I haven't looked at the pan, but my build date is September of 1991, so I'm pretty sure I've got a 6 bolt. I was reading the 1000 FAQ page (a LOT), and supposedly the switch was made in production of the April 1992 models.

Chumpaumpalumpa · Oct 4, 2015

Meteshjj said:
I haven't looked at the pan, but my build date is September of 1991, so I'm pretty sure I've got a 6 bolt. I was reading the 1000 FAQ page (a LOT), and supposedly the switch was made in production of the April 1992 models.

Good, and yea June April, I've seen a couple in May. But check anyways you want to know for sure. You can make 300AWHP very reliably on that car. Dont be afraid of it. Learn the proper launching technique well (preloading and not dropping the clutch, which is slower than launching it properly anyways). Check the flywheel step height. Tolerance is .608-.613. Shoot for .610-.612. If you ask the guys at RRE they say run .612. Listen to them. Oh, and read this http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm.

Meteshjj · Oct 4, 2015

Chumpaumpalumpa said:
Good, and yea June April, I've seen a couple in May. But check anyways you want to know for sure. You can make 300AWHP very reliably on that car. Dont be afraid of it. Learn the proper launching technique well (preloading and not dropping the clutch, which is slower than launching it properly anyways). Check the flywheel step height. Tolerance is .608-.613. Shoot for .610-.612. If you ask the guys at RRE they say run .612. Listen to them. Oh, and read this http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm.

I'll check for sure the next time I'm able to crawl under it... Or, y'know, when I pull the transmission. If I pull the tranny, I plan on replacing the clutch, slave cylinder, master cylinder, and flywheel anyway. From what I hear, a good organic clutch should be good enough. It worked just fine in my haul trucks, so I assume a car that weighs less than what I put in the bed of the trucks should be okay. Plus, I've never really liked the way ceramics grab. Again with an end goal of roughly 300HP, will a good organic clutch work alright?

Chumpaumpalumpa · Oct 4, 2015

Meteshjj said:
I'll check for sure the next time I'm able to crawl under it... Or, y'know, when I pull the transmission. If I pull the tranny, I plan on replacing the clutch, slave cylinder, master cylinder, and flywheel anyway. From what I hear, a good organic clutch should be good enough. It worked just fine in my haul trucks, so I assume a car that weighs less than what I put in the bed of the trucks should be okay. Plus, I've never really liked the way ceramics grab. Again with an end goal of roughly 300HP, will a good organic clutch work alright?

ACT 2100 a Full face disk and the streetlite flywheel if you can. It'll shift like a dream. Trans is a cakewalk to pull with an engine hoist. I cant stress this enough you MUST go OEM with the slave and master or you WILL have adjustment issues which will get worse in the long run. Also, why the heck are you still up isn't it like 1 AM LOL

Edit: Also with these cars, when you take the trans out, get an OEM TOB pivot ball and fork. You'll regret not doing that and it'll shift that much better. When you look under the car with the trans installed still, the clutch fork should be pointing towards the right half of the fork hole. For research and entertainment purposes, go look up Jafromobile on youtube. HUUUUUUUGE help to all of us. He even has a drivetrain series of videos with all kinds of tips and trick for both 1G and 2G's. Use Redline MT-85 in the trans and Redline Heavyweight shockproof gear oil in the transfercase and rear diff to ensure they all live a full life.

Meteshjj · Oct 4, 2015

Chumpaumpalumpa said:
ACT 2100 a Full face disk and the streetlite flywheel if you can. It'll shift like a dream. Trans is a cakewalk to pull with an engine hoist. I cant stress this enough you MUST go OEM with the slave and master or you WILL have adjustment issues which will get worse in the long run. Also, why the heck are you still up isn't it like 1 AM

Edit: Also with these cars, when you take the trans out, get an OEM TOB pivot ball and fork. You'll regret not doing that and it'll shift that much better. When you look under the car with the trans installed still, the clutch fork should be pointing towards the right half of the fork hole. For research and entertainment purposes, go look up Jafromobile on youtube. HUUUUUUUGE help to all of us. He even has a drivetrain series of videos with all kinds of tips and trick for both 1G and 2G's. Use Redline MT-85 in the trans and Redline Heavyweight shockproof gear oil in the transfercase and rear diff to ensure they all live a full life.

I'm always up this late. I apparently hate sleep. I had one more question for tonight before I get some sleep, though. I have a limited slip differential in the rear (according to the door pillar), but do I have one in the transaxle? If not, is it worth putting one in while I'm rebuilding it?

steve · Oct 4, 2015

All AWD DSM's had a center viscous coupler limited slip differential inside the transmission.
Optionally you could get a rear VCLSD from the factory but you had to go aftermarket if you wanted LSD on the front diff.

Chumpaumpalumpa · Oct 4, 2015

steve said:
All AWD DSM's had a center viscous coupler limited slip differential inside the transmission.
Optionally you could get a rear VCLSD from the factory but you had to go aftermarket if you wanted LSD on the front diff.

Yup, and you can get nice and sideways in the dirt with it. But no it's not necessary especially for your power level and goals and such. MUCH better places to spend that kind of cash. It'll create more understeer if anything. Speaking of which..... Go pick up a nice fat rear sway bar if you want to improve handling dynamics.

Meteshjj · Oct 12, 2015

Okay, so after a bit of stewing and a few calls, I think I've decided to rebuild the transmission. Other than standard tools you'd use to rebuild a generic American 4-speed, are there any special tools I need? Is there anything not included in Jack's Transmissions' kit that I will be needing?

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