Made it to IFO in St Louis Sunday, and finally have the car running decent. I made two easy passes to check the tune since I fixed a few boost leaks, and haven't drove it since the shootout. Then let it eat in the 2nd qualifier, and 2 rounds of eliminations. Pretty solid ET for the MPH, and decent consistent for a 5 speed with no launch control. (No two step, antilag, clutch tamer, FCV, ect.) Just me and an ACT 2600/4 puck.

Somewhere around 3100lbs, HE351 at 33psi, and a tiny ass intercooler with 225*F IAT's at the end of the pass. Full exhaust, full interior, street car.

That's a damn good 60' for no 2 step. What tires were you on? And you're on E85, yes?

You kidding???? Jesus dude. I gotta say, i didn't think you'd have that thing going by the looks of it. Engine/tranny are clearly healthy as can be.

I can attest to the fact the car is not stripped. I have seen it first hand. I didn't ask or look close enough but were you spraying water/meth at all?(after the IAT sensor obviously)
That is a tiny little IC. WIth a vrsf or PR kit you'd probably chop off 50*, or more, and run even faster.

I just dropped off the center diff today. Got a handful of other random parts on the way, bolt up the accessories and then time for the tune. I'll give you a call when she's running and maybe i can free up some time and meet ya over in Edwardsville some day hopefully around the end of the month.

Congrats on the run, that's really amazing for the weight, turbo, IC. Guess the driver factor really plays into it. Hahaha, that's why i swapped to AT!

Thanks guys. Its on 16" Hoosier QTP's with OZ F1 wheels. E85 and no meth.

I'm not sure if it will 60' any better without the 2 step. I didn't have my chassis datalogger on it to see what the engine rpm, or clutch position was really doing during the launch. Basically as soon as the other guy was staged I'd bring it up about 6500, and when I saw yellow start letting out the clutch, and as soon as it started to move WOT and let the clutch out the rest very quickly.

It was breaking up a bit as it was so rich 11:1 AFR's, so I pulled a .5 point of fuel after the 10.80 pass, and it lost a mph. Must have been missing the chemical inter-cooling from the extra fuel.

I bought a 12 x 24 x 3.5 garret GT core, but it showed up all dented up so I didn't get it on for IFO. I'm hoping the dispute gets settled and I get a good core on it this fall. I'd really like some very low 10's yet this year.

Meh, I've seen faster Just kidding, lookin good. HY35?

No it's an HE351 right now. I blew up a few HY's running them like this, so I went to a HE.

Congrats! Your car is really moving, well setup for sure sans the intercooler…

Just curious what brand and size core?

Also,

What rpm are you turning? Any high rpm shifting issues with your clutch setup?

I noticed your car has been high 10’s for some time @ full weight with various setups…what kind of lifespan are you seeing out of the gearset(s) and which gears are you running?

Def impressive can’t wait to see what you do once the IAT’s come down. 5 speeds for lyfe!

It's really cool that these DSMs can get into the 10's so easily when you do things right. I don't see a mod list. Cams?

The IC on it right now is a 20 x 9 x 2.5 CX racing core I bought in 2008 when I thought I'd never outgrow a 16g .

As far as gearset life it's hard to tell. I always use well used stuff, so who knows how much life is left in them when I start using them. Trapping 130, I figure they are good for 100-150 passes. I'll give a quick rundown of what I have used.

1. 90 style set well used, with TMZ 4 spider shaft - Then shot peened and detailed by TRE. 8/1/10 - 7/14/12 RIP. Car was trapping about 11.8 @ 120-123 on this set, and I ran it hard always. I had a few 11.30 @124 at the very end of it's life. I'd figure it averaged out to a pass every other day, so like 300? Pretty evenly split between launches, full drag passes, and just a 3rd gear tuning rip.

2. 90 style set well used, no metal treatments, locked CD. 7/14/12 - 8/31/12, 4/5/15 - Threw this together as a backup trans and stuck it in the car when #1 failed. This trans got beat like a redheaded middle step child. The car generally got 10+ dyno pulls on it a week while it was in the car plus probably 30 or more full 1/4mi passes. I ended up blowing up the CD when I tried a QM twindisc out. Car went bottom 11's at 129-130 with this trans. The CD chunks chipped upt the teeth pretty bad. I have since cleaned up the teeth and am using it right now.

3. Late 91 style with a chiped tooth on the 3rd gear intermeadiate shaft. Locked CD. 9/1/12 - 10/20/13 RIP. This trans was a damn workhorse. I was at the track every weekend in the summer of 2013. Everypass was 130+mph. Lots of street launches and tons of dyno pulls. Trans lived though 2 transfer cases, 3 axles, and a ring+pinion. I was out by my buddies farm and ripped on it in 3rd and it let go. Gave me great insight into the fialure modes. 3rd input gear was perfect,, every tooth on the intermediate shaft was cracked or missing. CD was not. I'd say overall life of this trans was 150 full passes.

4. Low mile 90 style set. Sent to TRE for shot peen, detail, and 4 spider machining. Took him almost 2 years to get it back. Had a TMZ UNBREAKABLE cross shaft in it. Lasted 22 real passes and 10 street launches. Very very few tuning pulls. TMZ cross shaft failed, and got caught in the output gears and destroyed everything.

5. Used a grinder to clean up the chips in #2, and put it back in. So far I had 4 11.50@123 passes at IFO Joliet, 6 more passes at cordova, then 3 11.0@129 passes at the shootout, and then these passes. I haven't been playing much on the treeet cause I know this trans is about used up.


As far as mod list,
Kelford 272's - Car ran better on DKS272's
Kiggly ti beehives
Stock valves
cleaned up ports
Home made SMIM
JE pistons with 210 wall pins
Manley turbotuff rods
ACL race bearings
ACT clutch and flywheel
Wilwood .7" master cyl, and modded pedals
2 sets of FIC 750's
Stock lines, filter, ect - double banjo bolt..
2 x 255 externals, custom pickup.
MAFT
Ostrich and Tunerpro RT with my own bin.
Holset HE351 on a godspeed manifold, wiht holset internal gate.

I shift right around 9000, and with my clutch system mods it shifts great.

That's pretty impressive . Congrats

Bastarddsm-

Thanks for the detailed reply. From my experience the gears that are cast onto the intermediate shaft appear to be the first to let go…the input shaft floating gears tend to fare better. I’ve always run the late-1991 gearsets.
--

I like that you have experimented with non-OEM clutch hydraulics. I’ve always ran OEM but they are unreliable with high capacity pressure plates (ex. ACT 2600) as they split the piston seals (master & slave cyl.) in short order—often prior to disc replacement. Can you comment on the durability of the Wilwood MC?

Which slave cylinder are you running? Have you tried the Isuzu slave, and do you have any idea if it offers any durability and reduction in pedal pressure/increase of engagement window over the 2g OEM Mitsu.?

When you adjust the MC to the minimum height required for the clutch to operate are you unable to adjust the pedal height so the clutch engages about 2-3inches off the floor (nice center position)? Is the Wilwood adjustable? Is it mandatory that the pedal be modified when utilizing the Wilwood MC? And are there any issues with overextending the slave and would this work well in conjunction with any sprung clutch?

It’s impressive that you were able to get an ACT single disc to perform at 9000+rpm. I would appreciate you going into further detail on your clutch system mods.

Thanks,
Mike

I've only had the wilwood in it since april so I can't comment on durability, I also went to needle roller bearings in place of the pedal bushings. So far it has been great.

I use a 1g slave, I'd like to try a 2g to get the pedal pressure down a bit, but haven't had a chance.

Yes with the modified setup, the clutch engages toward the top of the stroke like it is supposed to. It feels like a stock setup only higher pressure.

It is not essential to modify the pedals, but you loose out on 75% of the gains from doing it.

It is not a plug and play with every clutch. New ACT's will put the fingers into an ACT sprung hub disc before they are fully disengaged. I modified my disc to get clearance. The XTD sprung hub disc is different and it is marginal but ok I think. I suspect most other brands will be the same way. With a solid hub disc it is fine. You basically have to bolt the pp disc and flywheel together and check it. Easy way is tape a ring a quarters to the friction face of the flywheel. If you can get the pp bolts tight before the fingers hit the disc you are golden.

This is where quoting a single step height to always use is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. You can cheat the finger to disc clearance, by increasing the step height. But it's a ballancing act because too much gives to much centrifugal assist at high rpm and you loose travel due to the fingers flexing.

The wilwood isn't a bolt in. I machine off the old flange and make a new one. I can do one for you if you want. I think the cost between a new mc and my service is still cheaper than a new OEM mc.

Maverick, if your having release problems bring your PP flywheel and disc down to me and I'll check it over and we can see what's going on and what you need to fix it.

Good job.

It was like it was on autopilot. No launch control.

Here's 2 snips from the log of the 10.800 pass. First one is when the clutch starts coming out. From there to the next sample is clutch slipping. Grey line is boost. EBP is exhaust system pressure - not turbine inlet. psi = (x-25)/2 Basically 8psi at peak power, and its a straight through 3". I was logging 9 channels at 5 frames per/sec.

Very cool. Have you ever logged turbine backpressure with the 9cm housing? And any issues with wastegate placement on the #1 runner—how does that plug look?

Awesome stuff sir and very impressive, I just got into the 10s in my colt using a 2900 and a street disc , However I was using my 2 step.

Before this I was logging turbine inlet pressure. It's just under 60psi at full tilt. Unfortunatly I don't have a log of that to share. I use an ostrich and the easiest thing for me to use is MMCD in an emulator, and I can't figure out how to get the logs off it.

I'm also running the factory holset internal gate, so it should be evenly pulling off all 4.

Antilag, before this I was running a 2900/street disc, and loved it, but it didn't hold up long.

I was playing with a borg warner S362 in a .84 t4 housing and it was an open setup. So I was basically leaving at 8000, I think that and the slicks did it in. the disc wasn't super thin, but it was really chunked out, which I was ok with. The problem I had was the ACT pressure plate was super super warped and had major cracking going on. This was with maybe 20 passes on it trapping 125, only 3 were on the qtps. MY pp is a newer style 2900, and it appears to use a super thin chinese pressure ring. In fact the whole thing looks way to much like the $79 XTD stuff I used to run. My 2600 is an older style, and it is much much more heavy duty. It is made from factory type EXEDY components. This change doesn't sit too well with me.

As far as the two step, I used to use it, but it seemed so harsh using it, and I broke a lot. Then I saw some old school vids from shep when he was running mid 8's, and leaving off a free rev. So I tried it and these are the results

VERY impressive, you're doing something right that's for sure!!!

I tried to be the gtr killer, but I failed, still got $125 for runner up.

https://www.facebook.com/kurt.c.stuart/posts/814497943514

Very nice times and the consistency with a 5 spd is great!

I think your car is the epitome of what the basics done well on a DSM will net you. Obviously, you're a skilled driver as well, but the simplicity of this setup divided by the results you're getting is pretty bad ass.

No doubt, I'd say you're breaking less off the 2 step since you're leaving the line on a negligible amount of boost. I can imagine you need to slip the hell out of the clutch leaving the hole so you don't bog when not using the 2 step, though, right?

I'm thinking leaving the line on a 2 step is probably much harder on the clutch from a shockload standpoint, because you can damn near dump it and not bog since you're leaving the line under boost. Without the 2 step, you're relying on load being applied as you let out the clutch to bring up the boost, and I'd imagine that requires a ton of slippage. In that sense, it eases the shock load, but probably gets hot as hell eating the friction surfaces.

Basically, the 2 step allows for a near instantaneous coupling, which shocks the hell out of the drivetrain, but is easier on the friction surfaces due to a reduced window of slippage.

Your method provides for nearly the opposite, yet is harder on the friction surfaces due to more slippage for a longer period of time.

Not saying one way is better or worse, just wanted to get your thoughts on my mode of thinking. Regardless, a crappy Chinese pressure plate will screw you every time

Must be a Millennial, they can't spell well. Nice time though!

GST with PSI said:

I think your car is the epitome of what the basics done well on a DSM will net you. Obviously, you're a skilled driver as well, but the simplicity of this setup divided by the results you're getting is pretty bad ass.

No doubt, I'd say you're breaking less off the 2 step since you're leaving the line on a negligible amount of boost. I can imagine you need to slip the hell out of the clutch leaving the hole so you don't bog when not using the 2 step, though, right?

I'm thinking leaving the line on a 2 step is probably much harder on the clutch from a shockload standpoint, because you can damn near dump it and not bog since you're leaving the line under boost. Without the 2 step, you're relying on load being applied as you let out the clutch to bring up the boost, and I'd imagine that requires a ton of slippage. In that sense, it eases the shock load, but probably gets hot as hell eating the friction surfaces.

Basically, the 2 step allows for a near instantaneous coupling, which shocks the hell out of the drivetrain, but is easier on the friction surfaces due to a reduced window of slippage.

Your method provides for nearly the opposite, yet is harder on the friction surfaces due to more slippage for a longer period of time.

Not saying one way is better or worse, just wanted to get your thoughts on my mode of thinking. Regardless, a crappy Chinese pressure plate will screw you every time

Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind comments.

The clutch really doesn't slip that long. I did some math before and figured it's probably locked up by about .7sec at the latest

I think what happens here is that your feeding it throttle as your letting out the clutch so it makes it easier to feel when it starting to grab, where with the 2 step it's easy to let it out to much trying to find where it's starting to grab, basically dumping it. Using a staging brake is doing about the same thing too.

I think on some of my better passes I was actually getting aggressive enough to get some wheel spin.

The pass in the video I had stage fright and botched the launch. I started rolling out, and it seemed like I was way early and going to red light, so i dabbed the clutch and f***ed it all up. I ended up going .002 on the light so I might have redlighted if I hadn't dabbed. The GTR ran mid 9's so I didn't have much of a chance anyway.

RipperXX said:

Must be a Millennial, they can't spell well. Nice time though!

Click to expand...

Oh yeah I can't spell for shit.

Well this is happening.