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FP Black JB no water

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boost97gst

10+ Year Contributor
3,036
134
Apr 2, 2012
st jacob, Illinois
So i decided not to go t3 and after seeing some numbers on the black i think it's perfect for my 60lb/min goal

Question is, i have ran a pte 5558 JB for roughly 4500 miles, no water provisions on the chra. Zero problems. I just wasn't a dumbass and raced it into the garage with boiling hot oil. It's in mint condition as far as shaft play goes and i honestly see no reason to have the added complexity of running water lines in/out of a turbo.
I know they are designed for it but in the end it's still a journal bearing turbo. The point of the water, my understanding anyway, is to help with cooling the oil more in the chra. This is only a problem if you don't idle your car down. You get the 'coking" problem. I usually have a nice slow 3 minute drive through town and as i said, i have had no problems with the PTE.

So what do you say about running the FP Black and just plugging the water provisions?

I always say the simplest design is the best so long as it achieves the desired goal.
 
Ok, i checked and per their specs for their own journal bearing turbos the 4an turbo oil filter is "non restricted". So yea, just like any other JB it takes a 4an. Large drain, no crazy high pressures but nothing special, just the normal do's and don'ts for a JB it looks like

I've heard of 16g MHIs being run with no water, just blocking the port. I don't think(not sure) that borg warner uses water cooling. PTE doesn't. HX40s aren't typically water cooled or are they?

I'll mull this over and see if anyone has any first hand experience with a JB fp turbo, no coolant. Thanks Jake
 
Well if it takes a straight 4 an oil feed I would feel a little more comfortable. Most holset guys do that and they are indeed oil cooled. I'll say this, after measuring about 4 different -4an fittings, I can tell you most are not the .22 orifice they're supposed to be, so take that into consideration. Also the stm turbo feed line I bought back in the day was actually more like a -3an even though it was advertised as a -4. I believe it led to a few of the many holset explosions i've experienced.
 
Ya know, it's been like 3 years since i bought my feed line. I'm definitely gonna inspect it. 4AN should, in theory, be 4/16th or .250. The ID will be a bit smaller, as you said, and that could be different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Good point though. I can't remember where i bought my 4an feed, probably from extreme or stm though.

The way justin(the turbo guy on here) always talked about holsets he made it abundantly clear how important the drain size and angle were. I've seen pics of people making a 1"(!!) drain for an hx40. Big, ugly, but you KNOW that thing is getting the oil out LOL. Certainly far overkill. 10 or 12 AN should suffice
I have had luck with my current 4an and a 10AN drain with the pte.
Fwiw, PTE earned a really bad rep years ago. I can personally say i loved mine. I can't compare it directly since the day i fired up my dsm it had that turbo on it. For this build I was very VERY close to going T3 mani, holset 60mm with a BEP housing. I'm a bit skeptical of the claimed 68lbs/min of the jb black but i have seen the dynos of 600whp on e85 so i jumped on the FP train and it's on its way, bought that manifold they sell. Hell, even if it's a glorified 2g mani LOL, it looks pretty and even coated it barely cost anything.
Going off topic here ha.
 
I just asked a similar question to this and I am running a FP Green. I have the FP oil feed line and the FP drain line. Wonder if I should just run it on oil or not but cant decide... My water line doesn't quite reach.
 
hahahaha, i didn't see it, we're feeding each other's threads LOL.
We have a blind leading the blind scenario!!
I left a reply in your thread, pretty certain i will not run water to mine. straight 4 an, no restrictor(obviously) and a large drain. Works for many many jb turbos just fine.
 
Flyintalon, i may be but until i hear about why the FP jb turbo benefits from water cooling i'm gonna use the standard jb protocol. A BB turbo is totally different and i would never run it without water. This is not the case, we are speaking of journal bearing snails.
Maybe we'll get an fp user on that has ran without coolant or someone who can definitively say why no coolant is bad.

Coolant is primarily used so you don't cook the oil if you run it hard and shut the engine off. Coolant will continue to cool the chra in those situations just due to thermal convection. Oil obviously won't.
A good idle down or cruise for a couple minutes drops oil temps pretty quick after a pull.
 
Someone asked Michael from FP in one of the threads when the blacks were first coming out. He basically said your ok to run without water lines for drag racing but they're needed for autocross or anything like that and to watch for coking on the turbine side.
 
I know they are designed for it but in the end it's still a journal bearing turbo. The point of the water, my understanding anyway, is to help with cooling the oil more in the chra. This is only a problem if you don't idle your car down. You get the 'coking" problem. I usually have a nice slow 3 minute drive through town and as i said, i have had no problems with the PTE.
Completely-different turbo, completely-different oiling requirements.

The point of coolant in a journal bearing turbo is to prevent oil coking during a hot shutdown on street-driven cars by owners who have no clue how to properly care for a turbo. On a ball bearing turbo it's mandatory to prevent the bearing cartridge from overheating due to the tiny amount of oil they pass.

So what do you say about running the FP Black and just plugging the water provisions?
People do it all the time- myself included...in fact, we have a merged thread on the topic that I'm sure you came across whilst searching.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wa...out-water-merged-9-8-coolant-lines-oil.48281/

FP once offered the DSM Green/Red both with- and without the coolant provision on the bearing housing but apparently dropped the oil-only housing because you can run the coolant-ported housing without coolant if desired. I still build them both ways.

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I've heard of 16g MHIs being run with no water, just blocking the port.
It's the same bearing housing...and don't block the holes, you don't want an air gap to exist between the water jacket and the inner casting of the bearing housing.
I don't think(not sure) that borg warner uses water cooling.
Some do, some don't...those intended as OEM turbos on gasoline applications do.
PTE doesn't.
PTE doesn't even offer a ball bearing turbo with a coolant provision any longer...and that seems to be working out great.

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If I were designing a turbo tomorrow, I'd take whatever PTE does and do the opposite...so definitely don't use them as an example of durability.
HX40s aren't typically water cooled or are they?
Again...some do, some don't. Holset is primarily a diesel turbo so you won't find them installed as the factory turbo on a Saab or VW....but the CNG applications like compressors or generators which start/stop suddenly definitely DO have water-cooled bearing housings to prevent oil coking.

I'm a bit skeptical of the claimed 68lbs/min of the jb black but i have seen the dynos of 600whp on e85 so i jumped on the FP train and it's on its way, bought that manifold they sell.
You'll never see 68 lb/min from a DSM Black....that number is adapted from the HTA82 compressor's success on the turbo in which is was designed to be used on, not it's adapted use on the DSM Black. The turbine wheel / housing simply can't flow enough to allow it, much like a T3 HX40 has been proven to flow over 70 lb/min but struggles to exceed the 60 lb/min range when using the .55 Bullseye housing. Just because a compressor CAN produce a certain airflow number doesn't mean it WILL on every application. :)
 
Well, just got the FP box with mani and turbo. Gotta say, that's a whole lotta compressor wheel stuffed int hat little turbo. Not a lot bigger, externally(if at all) than my 55mm PTE.
It looks great though and just a quick visual i don't think much porting will be needed on the mani outlet or turbine inlet. Here's hoping this is a noticeable upgrade from my 55. I'm sure it is, maybe 10lbs/min more than i could get with my PTE but i expect better performance throughout the range. But, on e85 with my setup that's near an extra 100hp. Nothing to sneeze at.

And justin, i can't believe PTE doesn't even water cool their BB????!!!! I had to look to verify. Damn.
*Oh, and no water for the black. Read pro's/con's.
 
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