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timing belt confusion...

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Derek Goodreau

Proven Member
165
6
Jun 5, 2014
North Adams, Massachusetts
this is becoming such a PITA! i have a few questions that are confusing me, heres the VFAQ im following
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

1st confusion...
#24. Positioning the balance shaft, it says "Remove the balance shaft plug on the rear side of the cylinder block and insert a Phillips screwdriver {shank diameter 8 mm (.32 in.)} through the hole."
i cant find this plug.

also it says an easier way to do that, "Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly."
I rotate the sprocket like it says and it doesnt rotate clockwise or counterclockwise when i let it go, it just stays in place...this is confusing the hell out of me.

2nd confusion...
crankshaft TDC mark, with the pulley off i dont see a mark for top dead center.
this image shows this http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/96-012.gif
but this image shows this http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/fig17.gif

SOMEONE PLEASE get back to me!
 
Do not take offence because of my question, it's not meant to be. That said, are you trying to spin the oil pump sprocket with the timing belt on or off?
 
Just read your cars profile

"Bought car in rough shape from a guy in RI (3hr from me) and had it break down 3 times on the highway, had it towed finally. now its home and plan to build this beast up. Discovered that when he replaced the cams he never bled the lifters, they were all rock solid. fixed that. then discovered that when he also put in a new timing belt, something got messed up and the belt jumped a tooth so now my timing is off. Fixed the timing..but must have bent a valve or two and now car doesn't start so time to pull the head and check out whats going on."

That right there says a lot. The whole engine should have been rebuilt and gone through. I bet it has the non groove stub shaft and a $90 oil pump...

So you did the head and now your trying to time it up? Hope you had a shop do valve grind to match new valves?
Also Hope you used a composite felpro head gasket since your block was not decked.

So did it have all the tuning, turbo and mods when you got it?
 
Uhm, I see the pics of head that is not surfaced with new valves in? Not even cleaned up as much as I would? Was it checked with a machinist straight edge at least? I'm not trying to offend either, I dont know your mechanical skills or what more you had done to the head. But man if it wasnt checked for straightness and valves not ground to match, you are going to have a lot more problems then a jacked up oil pump.

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Just read your cars profile

"Bought car in rough shape from a guy in RI (3hr from me) and had it break down 3 times on the highway, had it towed finally. now its home and plan to build this beast up. Discovered that when he replaced the cams he never bled the lifters, they were all rock solid. fixed that. then discovered that when he also put in a new timing belt, something got messed up and the belt jumped a tooth so now my timing is off. Fixed the timing..but must have bent a valve or two and now car doesn't start so time to pull the head and check out whats going on."

That right there says a lot. The whole engine should have been rebuilt and gone through. I bet it has the non groove stub shaft and a $90 oil pump...

So you did the head and now your trying to time it up? Hope you had a shop do valve grind to match new valves?
Also Hope you used a composite felpro head gasket since your block was not decked.

So did it have all the tuning, turbo and mods when you got it?

i did the valve job myself, yes i am using felpro gasket, yes i used a straight edge to measure for any warped spots or anything like that, and yes all the mods, turbo, and tuning were done when i got the car. im sure they were all half ass and done wrong but around me it is literally impossible to find these cars in good working order with little or no mods. I would love to rebuild the engine right now, but dont have a garage or driveway to do the work. nor do i have a engine hoist or anything like that..i cant afford that stuff right now. i am just trying to restore the engine too working condition but make it look good. everyone can bash me about my methods of doing things and stuff like that but i just dont have loads of money to dump into it right now.
 
Uhm, I see the pics of head that is not surfaced with new valves in? Not even cleaned up as much as I would? Was it checked with a machinist straight edge at least? I'm not trying to offend either, I dont know your mechanical skills or what more you had done to the head. But man if it wasnt checked for straightness and valves not ground to match, you are going to have a lot more problems then a jacked up oil pump.

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I lapped the valves to the seats if thats what you mean, and i straight edged the surface. nothing more than that.
 
Definitely not trying to bash, you got to work with what you have, I know I have. So with feeler gauges and a MACHINIST straight edge (not a carpenters) checked the head? With a composite gasket you will probably be fine. Did you spray come carb cleaner in the ports after valves were installed (no cams) and see if they sealed? If so and they did not leak then great gj.

Now get that oil pump off and see what the hecks going on. With oil pan off I'd check your crank play thrust clearance, very simple, the feeler gauges are $8 at oreillys. If it is beyond spec, plan for that rebuild soon.

skip to 4:00 min when he says specs and shows with the feeler gauges
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Definitely not trying to bash, you got to work with what you have, I know I have. So with feeler gauges and a MACHINIST straight edge (not a carpenters) checked the head? With a composite gasket you will probably be fine. Did you spray come carb cleaner in the ports after valves were installed (no cams) and see if they sealed? If so and they did not leak then great gj.

Now get that oil pump off and see what the hecks going on. With oil pan off I'd check your crank play thrust clearance, very simple, the feeler gauges are $8 at oreillys. If it is beyond spec, plan for that rebuild soon.

skip to 4:00 min when he says specs and shows with the feeler gauges
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
Ok np man, yes I used a machinist straight edge and it was in tolerance. Also I used the carb cleaner and had absolutely no noticeable leaks, also blew compressed air through with the carb cleaner pooled up, and showed no bubbling.
 
That weight trick doesnt always work. It definately doesnt work when the seals are newer. The point of all this is the shaft can be out of phase even if the marks line up. The actual balance shaft will land in one of three positions every 360 degrees of rotation of the oil pump sprocket. Only one of those three is correct. When doing a timing belt on a running car its easier to line up the marks first. Then its not possible to get it out of phase provided you dont mess with it. In your case remove the bolt and you can check. Thats why the bolt is there.Sounds like you have some work ahead of you.
 
That weight trick doesnt always work. It definately doesnt work when the seals are newer. The point of all this is the shaft can be out of phase even if the marks line up. The actual balance shaft will land in one of three positions every 360 degrees of rotation of the oil pump sprocket. Only one of those three is correct. When doing a timing belt on a running car its easier to line up the marks first. Then its not possible to get it out of phase provided you dont mess with it. In your case remove the bolt and you can check. Thats why the bolt is there.Sounds like you have some work ahead of you.
yeah i knew about the 3:1 ration, but i thought it was odd that the gear is very tight...too tight to rotate by hand. after seeing tons of videos and seeing people spin it with barely any effort at all is why i was concerned, hopefully its not too much work. ive already dumped about a grand into this and i have not been able to drive her yet.
 
You didn't notice this when you first took everything apart? I wouldn't trust anything.
no i didnt, i wish i did. i am still new to alot of this stuff and learning as i go, so i dont catch everything at once. yeah at this point i am not trusting anything the guy told me, or any of his work.
 
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