Mifff
10+ Year Contributor
- 30
- 1
- Aug 16, 2012
-
Colorado Spr,
Colorado
I generally use the forums for reference (as well as service manuals) but i have encountered a particular nostart which has stumped me and two of my friends so i'm calling on the great minds of the forum to point me in a direction I haven't thought of.
History: this car has been a veritable avalanche of issues I've been wrestling back down. I finally got the car running strong last year in August-September time frame but the car wouldn't build boost (we built a turbo from other pats and figured we screwed up the waste-gate flapper, no big deal, fix it later. I put a quarter tank of new gas in with old gas and some fuel stabilizer (full tank now). Winter comes and I park it for a few months in a garage. Fast forward to April time frame I come back to play with it some more and it starts really hard, i'm like okay i'll get it warmed up and it'll be happy again so I pull it out of the garage and get maybe 1000 feet away and it dies on a shallow grade hill. Oh goodie. My girlfriend who apparently has some kind of engine whisperer ability starts it by giving it gas while cranking it over (didn't know that worked on FI vehicles). We nurse it back to the garage where there's another shallow hill and of course it dies again and I need to push 3200 pounds of car back into a garage with a lip. Exciting. I was just at my garage for a visit and decide to come back next week to figure out what's gone wrong now. Following week the ca won't start at all. Turns over strong but no firing. Okay, fine be difficult. Time to check the forums for troubleshooting steps.
Car notes: ABS delete - abs cpu removed from car but not grounded yet. When cranking over to try and get it start it blew #19 fuse in the drivers side foot well as well. I replaced it and haven't had an issue since.
I find http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-diagnose-a-no-start.217951/ and start looking:
I: car cranks strong, go to II.
II: cranks but nostart
-Fuel
1.I first thought the fuel filter was hosed from reading other threads so i replaced it with a new one, nojoy on start.
2.My friend listens to the fill port for the whirring of the fuel pump, it's working
3.We take off the return line from the rail and crank the car, fuel goes in and it looks clear and with no debris and smells like fuel.
4.I cannot check pressure but it seems like everything is OK.
5.Just to eliminate the fuel my friend sprays some starter fluid in the intake plenum with no change.
-Spark
1.We pull the plug wires and touch them to the valve cover, all look to fire.
2.We pull the plugs, they don't appear to be fouled and I had just replaced them with new plugs last year.
3. We put the pulled plug in the boot and touch the head, good spark.
4. Plugs had fuel on them from cranking.
-ECU
1. I pull the ECU and check for blown caps, I do not see any of the three bulging in the least and no burn marks on the board.
2. When I turn the car to the on position the CEL comes on for 5 seconds and then goes away, additionally the boost gauge goes to half way and then drops exactly like it's supposed to.
3.I try to check for CEL codes, it pulses 1x1.
-Compression
While I have not explicitly checked this correct me on my logic if i'm wrong.
Four sets of piston rings should not be taking a dump by sitting, especially when the engine ran strong 6 months earlier.
Cranking the engine over with the plug pulled we could see the piston moving and a fuel mist.
Cranking the engine over we could hear on occasion the *whomp* of a cylinder compressing but not firing (maybe knock).
-Timing
I cant get the engine to spin fast enough to use a timing light.
I took the top timing cover off and it appears like the belt is good. I was told by previous owner 2-3 years ago that the belt was replaced with a brand new one and that appears to be so.
Things I have checked:
1.I can hear the MPI relay click right before the car is turned off, also took apart and verified it looks ok.
2.I have verified the coolant temp sensor is reading the correct 4.5-4.9 volts and resistance.
3.I have rechecked and verified the spark plug wires are correct.
4.I have had the car ignore ecu timing by grounding the pin to verify ecu isn't hosed.
5.Removed MAF connection.
6. Resister pack is reading optimal voltage.
Things I am making reasonable assumptions about:
1.CAS is good as I have fuel and spark.
Looking at my list I'm just stomped as to what's next.
Could a sensor could be keeping the car from starting? I'm hoping another sensor died (I replaced TPS sensor last year) but i don't know which one.
Could something not being grounded cause this?
How could timing (if i is timing) get that bad? Also i'm not hearing any valve crunching noises and I would assume that in that case i'd at least hear knock as one set might be firing. Also how does timing get that bad when sitting?
Thanks for anything you can offer.
History: this car has been a veritable avalanche of issues I've been wrestling back down. I finally got the car running strong last year in August-September time frame but the car wouldn't build boost (we built a turbo from other pats and figured we screwed up the waste-gate flapper, no big deal, fix it later. I put a quarter tank of new gas in with old gas and some fuel stabilizer (full tank now). Winter comes and I park it for a few months in a garage. Fast forward to April time frame I come back to play with it some more and it starts really hard, i'm like okay i'll get it warmed up and it'll be happy again so I pull it out of the garage and get maybe 1000 feet away and it dies on a shallow grade hill. Oh goodie. My girlfriend who apparently has some kind of engine whisperer ability starts it by giving it gas while cranking it over (didn't know that worked on FI vehicles). We nurse it back to the garage where there's another shallow hill and of course it dies again and I need to push 3200 pounds of car back into a garage with a lip. Exciting. I was just at my garage for a visit and decide to come back next week to figure out what's gone wrong now. Following week the ca won't start at all. Turns over strong but no firing. Okay, fine be difficult. Time to check the forums for troubleshooting steps.
Car notes: ABS delete - abs cpu removed from car but not grounded yet. When cranking over to try and get it start it blew #19 fuse in the drivers side foot well as well. I replaced it and haven't had an issue since.
I find http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-diagnose-a-no-start.217951/ and start looking:
I: car cranks strong, go to II.
II: cranks but nostart
-Fuel
1.I first thought the fuel filter was hosed from reading other threads so i replaced it with a new one, nojoy on start.
2.My friend listens to the fill port for the whirring of the fuel pump, it's working
3.We take off the return line from the rail and crank the car, fuel goes in and it looks clear and with no debris and smells like fuel.
4.I cannot check pressure but it seems like everything is OK.
5.Just to eliminate the fuel my friend sprays some starter fluid in the intake plenum with no change.
-Spark
1.We pull the plug wires and touch them to the valve cover, all look to fire.
2.We pull the plugs, they don't appear to be fouled and I had just replaced them with new plugs last year.
3. We put the pulled plug in the boot and touch the head, good spark.
4. Plugs had fuel on them from cranking.
-ECU
1. I pull the ECU and check for blown caps, I do not see any of the three bulging in the least and no burn marks on the board.
2. When I turn the car to the on position the CEL comes on for 5 seconds and then goes away, additionally the boost gauge goes to half way and then drops exactly like it's supposed to.
3.I try to check for CEL codes, it pulses 1x1.
-Compression
While I have not explicitly checked this correct me on my logic if i'm wrong.
Four sets of piston rings should not be taking a dump by sitting, especially when the engine ran strong 6 months earlier.
Cranking the engine over with the plug pulled we could see the piston moving and a fuel mist.
Cranking the engine over we could hear on occasion the *whomp* of a cylinder compressing but not firing (maybe knock).
-Timing
I cant get the engine to spin fast enough to use a timing light.
I took the top timing cover off and it appears like the belt is good. I was told by previous owner 2-3 years ago that the belt was replaced with a brand new one and that appears to be so.
Things I have checked:
1.I can hear the MPI relay click right before the car is turned off, also took apart and verified it looks ok.
2.I have verified the coolant temp sensor is reading the correct 4.5-4.9 volts and resistance.
3.I have rechecked and verified the spark plug wires are correct.
4.I have had the car ignore ecu timing by grounding the pin to verify ecu isn't hosed.
5.Removed MAF connection.
6. Resister pack is reading optimal voltage.
Things I am making reasonable assumptions about:
1.CAS is good as I have fuel and spark.
Looking at my list I'm just stomped as to what's next.
Could a sensor could be keeping the car from starting? I'm hoping another sensor died (I replaced TPS sensor last year) but i don't know which one.
Could something not being grounded cause this?
How could timing (if i is timing) get that bad? Also i'm not hearing any valve crunching noises and I would assume that in that case i'd at least hear knock as one set might be firing. Also how does timing get that bad when sitting?
Thanks for anything you can offer.
