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Needs springs rates 1g dedicated track car

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theamsoilguy

10+ Year Contributor
132
18
Nov 18, 2010
Edmonton, AB_Canada
Hi. I have been digging and finding some info on springs rates that people who track their cars runs. I still have not decided on what I am going to do.

My car is a 91 awd built for the chump car series. The rules changed a bit and I can upgrade my shocks\struts from stock but still cant go crazy. I found hotbits, as my rally car has those. They can build me a monotube shock, valved to match my spring rates and set it up to be lower than stock ride height. The car is pretty stock, poly bushings, modified from some extra camber\caster, running 245/35/17 toyo r1r.

I will be removing my upgraded rear sway and putting a stock one back on to avoid the penalty I get for that. The car pushed before the sway bar upgrade, and still pushes but not as bad. I was running eibach lowering springs, have no idea on spring rate but guessing 350ish front and 200 rears. It wasn't enough spring and it wastn enough rear spring compared to the fronts.

Seems lots of track cars are setup near the same rear spring rates as fronts, maybe 50lb less on average. Someone said go 400/350, I heard of a car running 650/650, 600/550. I know my 944 is running 800/1000.

If you track a 1g, what are your spring rates and what are your sway bars and what do you recommend.

PS: Car is about 1700 front and 1000 rear for balance wet with driver.

Thanks Al
 
I'm afraid I can't be of much help as of yet, but I'm interested in hearing what you try and what works.

I'm building my car for WRL at the moment. Question - have you done the active toe elimination? I'm hoping that, along with some spring rate manipulation, is enough to make the car rotate. I'd like to stick with the stock rear sway bar.

Sometimes it takes some trial and error. Are you running the stock size front springs? Might be worth converting to the generic smaller spring size. I have a box of springs that I used to mix and match with on my 90 turbo civic Chumpcar.
 
You'll find a lot of different info on spring rates in this forum - do a few searches in this forum specifically. I have been running 500/450 springs with my Koni/GC setup - I remember talking to the guys at RRE years ago and they actually suggested I swap the front/rear for better rotation. I also did toe elimination and have poly bushings everywhere, with an RM Racing rear swaybar. I also have some Whiteline swaybars that have been sitting in the garage for years that I wanted to put on, 26mm in the rear and 22mm up front I believe - they're made for the GVR-4 but it's the same chassis. That's pretty beefy.

My car has been out of commission for years though. The future plans were to swap out the rear diff for a modified Evo 9 diff to help with understeer, address the roll center adjustment in the front so I can lower it more, and start swapping the poly bushings to solid bushings. Just haven't made much progress on any of that yet.
 
My car was not a 1G though I campaigned a 2G in a few road racing series and for the most part, my rates did not change from track to track more than 100 lbs. either way. Our off the trailer set up was usually 650 lbs. in the front and 350 lbs. in the rear. Although I am not AWD so the back did not need a heavier spring in my mind.

OEM sway bars for the most part. Didn't touch those too much. My car was about as neutral of a race car as I have ever driven. We didn't mess with the setup too much unless we needed something or to take something away. Then it was mostly camber adjustments to eliminate under/over steer depending on the track.

I hope some of this input helps.
 
Thanks for the inputs.

Just a fyi on my chump car. I have done the toe fix and poly bushings. I had upgraded the rear sway but I am taking it out. Chump car assigns penalty points for it.

I ended up ordering 650F and 600R. I will start with that and will probably have to get more springs to setup the car. Sprung too stiff for wet conditions probably. I might be too high for the rears but the car does want to push with my old setup. It will be months before I have tested though, I also dont know how long it will take to get my new suspension.

PS: I ordered from HOTBITS. They will make struts to the ride height you want and valve to the springs you buy, and is setup to be a coil over system. They have inexpensive to very expensive setups. Peter at hotbits.ca can help you out if anyone is looking for suspension bits.
 
Chris, can you tell us more about your roll center issue? Are you talking about the typical slammed car/control arms pointed up/underground roll center issue? How low was your car when you encountered it?

theamsoilguy - thanks for the tip about Hotbits, I will definitely be calling them this season. I'd like to talk to you more about your car, I'll send PM.
 
You can try and counter the understeer (push) by adjusting the front camber if you can adjust it now. Moving the top of the front tires in will allow the car to rotate a little better in turns as well. Also, if possible, add some positive camber in the rear, this also allows the car to turn in a little better.

I finally settled on - 1.5 in the front and - 0.5 in the rear as a starting point at every track. Though when we upgraded to coilovers, the need to adjust the camber angle went down. But, like I said, it can help at times if you have no other way to get rid of some of that push.

Just more of my $0.02.
 
I have way more than 1.5 front camber, I also have way more than stock caster. I ended up with too much camber at one point in the inside tire to the track. The cars are known to push. I did everything I could. Working with pyrometers and pressure gauges and reading temps. Im pretty sure its a spring rate imbalance. To help with a push higher rear springs are usually what is done. After reading spring rates from the few who race a 1g they all had rear springs rates not too far off from fronts. I wasn't setup that way with the eibach springs that came with my car. I am now running much more rear spring. LSD might help my car, but that's not in the rules.
 
You could also just ensure your stock viscous is still working... can't remember if the FSM has a procedure for that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I'll 2nd the opinion of -1.5f/-0.5R camber not being great. Haven't set up my 1g yet but my EF civic, at one point, had around -4 front, -2.5 rear. My strategy with the 1g will be more caster, less camber but I don't anticipate fronts being less than -2.5.

Then again, the 2g has better suspension design so maybe that factors into it.
 
First off you cannot compare spring rates between different cars as the suspension type and geometry is different. You also cannot compare 1g to 2g for the same reason plus the 1g uses a strut front compared to upper and lower control arms on the 2g. Completely different animal. I knew a guy with a civic that was using like 1000-1200 lbs springs!

For the 1g I had 600/400 at one point and the front end was too stiff and would skip around. I then went to 450/400 and it was not stiff enough. 500 or 550/400 would be a sweet spot. That was with a RM rear only sway bar, stock front and lots of front negative camber. Alignment is a big factor as well as the rear toe eliminator, tire pressures and bushings. It also depends on driving style and preferences. For sure a stock 1g pushes like a pig.
 
You're right - you can not take settings from one platform, verbatim, and apply to another.

However I partially disagree - experiences with other cars can definitely guide and be helpful for others. It all requires some good judgement and thought/testing, hopefully that goes without saying (although maybe worth saying around typical forum dwellers who like to have a formula for everything). You can't dismiss any and all past experience.

I will say -4* is not ideal as your braking performance starts to suffer. I will definitely avoid it in the future and caster is a better way to go.

Hell, I run -2* front on my daily driven 1g AWD. Tire wear is great, handling quite good. Usually settings get increased more for the track.
 
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