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Best pads for DD/track

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Thanks for the detailed input @2gmitsueclipse! Funny you mention the ducting, I ran that on my Evo X. Ran the 3500 lb+ Evo X for a full season, and didn't have any issues with the Brembos btw.

My overall question is whether I should try stock calipers + aggressive track pads, or just once & done w/the Brembo conversion. Trying to get some data around this :) How long (# days/sessions) do the stock sized pads last you guys? I generally do 4-5 20 min sessions + the 2 5 lap TA sessions.
 
Thanks for the detailed input @2gmitsueclipse! Funny you mention the ducting, I ran that on my Evo X. Ran the 3500 lb+ Evo X for a full season, and didn't have any issues with the Brembos btw.

My overall question is whether I should try stock calipers + aggressive track pads, or just once & done w/the Brembo conversion. Trying to get some data around this :) How long (# days/sessions) do the stock sized pads last you guys? I generally do 4-5 20 min sessions + the 2 5 lap TA sessions.

If you have the money and time, spring for the Brembo. I have 4 track days on the Carbotech pads with plenty of meat left for this coming year. The dedicated rotors are in great shape as well. Another important thing to comment on would be the tire type. Speeds will be higher on r - comp tires thus needing more stress on the braking system to slow the car. I am running Dunlop ZII's for track days. I average about five 20 minute sessions.
 
@2gmitsueclipse that's great to hear, which Carbotechs are you running? How much would you say is left? Outlander upgrade is just the OEM bracket and bigger rotors right? Is there a noticeable change in brake bias?

I'm running the Achilles A123S, they're <1 sec off from RS3's but MUCH cheaper. Extremely happy with them so far and would highly recommend.
 
I run a hard track on brakes, so my advice may not apply if you have brake ducting and run higher speeds with less time between braking events.

We run about 10 minute sessions of a half mile oval with a hairpin on one end. Speeds are about 90+ mph heading into a 10 mph hairpin, and the other end of the oval is from 90 mph to about 50-55 mph. The car does about 1.2 to 1.4 G under braking w/ Hoosier autox tires.

Because of the limited time at high speed and very short time frame between the braking events, this really kills brakes. This is my experience:

Factory 2G Brakes & Rotors:
- HP+ : likely overheated after the first lap, brake fluid boils
- Porterfield R4S: works well for a couple of laps, then causes fluid boiling, and the pad will disintegrate
- Hawk Blue : fluid boils, pad disintegrates
- Porterfield R4E : works fine, but likely the dust boots will be at least smoldering, and your rotors are trashed after a single session, and you get to fix your slider pins (likely seized)

BAER/Cobra 12.2" rotor brakes:
- Cooked R4Es after the third 10 minute session and upgraded to 13" rotors.

BAER Cobra 13" rotor brakes:
- Hawk HPS: for some reason these don't have enough torque to lock up the Hoosiers well. Unsuitable for even autox
- Hawk HP+: only used for autox & street
- Hawk Blue: despite the increase in rotor mass, these are still useless (pad fade, fluid boiled)
- Hawk Black: Pads crumbled after not much use, disappointed
- Porterfield R4E: lasts me the day, but I did burn out the dust seals on these calipers too, rotors are blue. I can usually get two events out of a set of pads and about that for a set of rotors. (R4Es *eat* rotors.)

For fluid I was running Ford DOT 3, then ATE Super Blue, but finally switched to RBF 600 and RBF 660. For now, no more fluid boiling. For our Time Attack events (4 laps at speed) I can get away with a much less aggressive pad and fluid.

Also note the he car was upgraded in power along with the brake setup changes. For me, the limiting factor is thermal capacity and cooling so swapping to a EVO Brembo setup won't help. I'm working on ducting, a 1.25" thick two-piece rotor, and a *much* larger 6 piston caliper. (The caliper is overkill, it's the cooling I need.)
 
@2gmitsueclipse that's great to hear, which Carbotechs are you running? How much would you say is left? Outlander upgrade is just the OEM bracket and bigger rotors right? Is there a noticeable change in brake bias?

I'm running the Achilles A123S, they're <1 sec off from RS3's but MUCH cheaper. Extremely happy with them so far and would highly recommend.

I am left with 11/32 of pad. I have been tracking on road courses with one longer straight where speed I reach are about 110. Yes, I have been running Outlander brackets and larger blank rotors. The rotors are also vented. Because of this swap, there is always fresh Sil-glyde on slide pins, and I do a quick fluid flush with ATE.
 
I run a hard track on brakes, so my advice may not apply if you have brake ducting and run higher speeds with less time between braking events.

We run about 10 minute sessions of a half mile oval with a hairpin on one end. Speeds are about 90+ mph heading into a 10 mph hairpin, and the other end of the oval is from 90 mph to about 50-55 mph. The car does about 1.2 to 1.4 G under braking w/ Hoosier autox tires.

Because of the limited time at high speed and very short time frame between the braking events, this really kills brakes. This is my experience:

Factory 2G Brakes & Rotors:
- HP+ : likely overheated after the first lap, brake fluid boils
- Porterfield R4S: works well for a couple of laps, then causes fluid boiling, and the pad will disintegrate
- Hawk Blue : fluid boils, pad disintegrates
- Porterfield R4E : works fine, but likely the dust boots will be at least smoldering, and your rotors are trashed after a single session, and you get to fix your slider pins (likely seized)

BAER/Cobra 12.2" rotor brakes:
- Cooked R4Es after the third 10 minute session and upgraded to 13" rotors.

BAER Cobra 13" rotor brakes:
- Hawk HPS: for some reason these don't have enough torque to lock up the Hoosiers well. Unsuitable for even autox
- Hawk HP+: only used for autox & street
- Hawk Blue: despite the increase in rotor mass, these are still useless (pad fade, fluid boiled)
- Hawk Black: Pads crumbled after not much use, disappointed
- Porterfield R4E: lasts me the day, but I did burn out the dust seals on these calipers too, rotors are blue. I can usually get two events out of a set of pads and about that for a set of rotors. (R4Es *eat* rotors.)

For fluid I was running Ford DOT 3, then ATE Super Blue, but finally switched to RBF 600 and RBF 660. For now, no more fluid boiling. For our Time Attack events (4 laps at speed) I can get away with a much less aggressive pad and fluid.

Also note the he car was upgraded in power along with the brake setup changes. For me, the limiting factor is thermal capacity and cooling so swapping to a EVO Brembo setup won't help. I'm working on ducting, a 1.25" thick two-piece rotor, and a *much* larger 6 piston caliper. (The caliper is overkill, it's the cooling I need.)


I do not know if it would help too much, but this company offers high-temp dust boots and vented SS pistons for the Evo setup. They would would offer a better thermal barrier compared to the aluminum piston of the OE variety. This coupled with titanium shims should help, along with ducting of course. I have heard good things about them:
http://www.racingbrake.com/EVO-Front-caliper-pistons-p/bm-41p.htm
 
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@T2Small amazing data, that's exactly what I'm looking for! :) Half mile oval with 90-10 entry is RIDICULOUSLY hard on brakes haha. Most of the SoCal tracks are about 1.5-2.5 miles with at least a front straight. I'd suggest also trying the Project Mu G-four brake fluid, it's got some of the highest boiling points and can last for up to a year. Ducting should definitely help though, maybe couple that w/the Porsche GT3 air guides for $20?

@2gmitsueclipse great input as well! Are you saying because the Outlander brackets put the calipers more outward (or because of additional rotor surface area?), the sliding pins stay cool? Thanks for the heads up w/RB! Saw that they're local in LA, I'll try to stop by :)
 
Like the discussion brakes here guys. I stand way from chiming on brake setups as my $0.02 will differ to a DD car from our fully prepped race car.

I personally love Hawk pads and swear by them whenever I can. Plus, they do a nice contingency program for racers as well. Never hurts :)

@2gmitsueclipse - Interesting on the Outlander mod ... What all did you take from the SUV and what years work for this mod? Did it allow you to run a bigger rotor is all?
 
@Wufei the big challenge is just fitting any sort of ducting on a 2G and retaining the ability to go to full steering lock. I've seen pictures on a Porsche GT3 style air guides on a 1G, but don't see how it would work that well with our 2G shock fork in the way.

@2gmitsueclipse I was definitely aware of the shims, but not high temp dust seals. Thanks!
 
@2gmitsueclipse - Interesting on the Outlander mod ... What all did you take from the SUV and what years work for this mod? Did it allow you to run a bigger rotor is all?

All you need is the caliper brackets and rotors from an 05/06 Outlander. It uses the same caliper as the as the 2g AWD DSM. The rotor diameter increases from 276mm to 296mm. This is part of my prep for a track day.
 
2gmitsueclipse - Thanks for the details. Looking in to trying that set up soon as a better option to what I have now.
 
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