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Four channel audio (no sub) sorry for this post here..

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rambow70

10+ Year Contributor
96
0
Feb 26, 2012
Fishers, Indiana
First off I apologize for asking an audio question in a DSM forum. I am limited to this section as a newbie.

I was thinking about going coaxil so I do not have to mess with the tweeters in the front. The car I bought has two speakers gone and the head unit goes in and out so time for new speakers.

I have never purchased audio equipment besides a subwoofer in highschool. I sold that ha.

What I am looking for is a set up that doesn't kill the bank but the goal is good clarity. I want a good head unit and 4 channel amp that delivers clear, distorted sound.

Is there anything I should be looking for when buying a head unit or the amp? Here are some things I have picked out with my little experience. Please feel free to add your own suggestions. Sorry again, I could google but technology changes and might as well ask this question on a dsm forum instead of audio forums (they tend to be go big or go home). I just really need some info.

What I have found (Our size is Front: 6 1/2", Rear: 6x9", Tweet: 2")

Head unit: What RCA should I go for?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_74903_JVC-KD-R850BT.html

Amp 4 Channel:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_63974_Pioneer-GM-D8604.html (little high on price)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_77168_Precision-Power-PPI-BA1600.4.html (like this price)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_32727_Autotek-Mean-Machine-M2000.4.html (too cheap?)

Front: 6 1/2"
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12265_JBL-P662s.html

Rear: 6x9"
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12264_JBL-P963.html

I know amp and head unit/deck are the most important for sound clarity. There are just sooooo many choices it gives me a headache haha. Just wondered what people on here have done to their cars! Also no sub! RMS power ranging from 80-110watts is a good ball park. I am not going for power, just nice sound.
 
If you get a quality head unit, it will put out 50w(rms)x4 so there's really no need for the amplifier at that point. I scrounged ebay and grabbed 2014 kicker ksc693 + 2011 ks5.2's for $250 shipped for both sets. (I wanted the titanium dome tweets the 2011 separates have vs the 2014's which are silk).

And I'll be powering them from the pioneer AVH-2600BT. There all still sitting here next to me in my office in their boxes, but they were particularly selected for my tastes.

And this is for my non-highline 1g that came with 5.25's in the doors. Not sure if i'm going to mount the tweeter high in the door panel, or utilize the factory dash speaker location yet, I'm not at that point in my build to get to installing.

But trust me on a good 50x4 head unit being able to power some nice speakers, it saves on wiring and obviously not needing to buy an amp. Go to your local car stereo store and play around, and I don't mean Best Buy.
 
If you get a quality head unit, it will put out 50w(rms)x4 so there's really no need for the amplifier at that point. I scrounged ebay and grabbed 2014 kicker ksc693 + 2011 ks5.2's for $250 shipped for both sets. (I wanted the titanium dome tweets the 2011 separates have vs the 2014's which are silk).

And I'll be powering them from the pioneer AVH-2600BT. There all still sitting here next to me in my office in their boxes, but they were particularly selected for my tastes.

And this is for my non-highline 1g that came with 5.25's in the doors. Not sure if i'm going to mount the tweeter high in the door panel, or utilize the factory dash speaker location yet, I'm not at that point in my build to get to installing.

But trust me on a good 50x4 head unit being able to power some nice speakers, it saves on wiring and obviously not needing to buy an amp. Go to your local car stereo store and play around, and I don't mean Best Buy.
Would I have to remove the stock speaker wires that run from the speakers to the head unit if i was to buy an expensive 50x4? If so is dash removal necessary?
 
I am running a Kenwood KDC MP-245 and love it. They can be found used and in great shape for 40-50 bucks. I have this unit in my DD, my DSM and my son's Camaro. Has RCA outs for Subs if you want them later. Look up the specs on the internet but I really like mine. Clear clean sound and has remote control too which can be bought separately if your unit doesn't have one any more.
 
Would I have to remove the stock speaker wires that run from the speakers to the head unit if i was to buy an expensive 50x4? If so is dash removal necessary?

No you wouldn't have to replace any wiring. I've never had a problem with stock wiring at those power levels.
 
Question, while the 50watt rms x4 sounds good, they seem to be hard to find. All I can find are 15 or 22watt rms. Is there a way to replace the stock infinity amp under the seat with a 4 channel amp that will lead to all new speakers (minus tweeters) and go to the head unit easily? Or is that just too difficult?
 
You won't find a hu that will put out 50w rms unheard of LOL. Get a clarion older 4 channel they sound good and are cheap 60 bucks normally or get a new ppi 4 channel little more money but still sound good for a cheap price and get whatever hu fits in your budget with what you want. As far as speakers anything around 50-75 watts rms I would do. The higher you go the more power you will need to make them sound good. I used to build a lot of car audio
 
Coaxial or replace stock tweeters? What size are the stock tweeters, I heard they are hard to mess with. Any good brands or bad brands that I should know of?
 
Ok, this is the set up I came up with. The rms from the speakers and amp line up perfect. The rears take a little more juice but it shouldn't matter, should it? I won't be blasting anything but I do not want to under power anything and I want a good brand. So the fronts need 60watt rms -> 120 from the amp, rears need 100watt rms -> 200watt from the amp. The amp buts out 160watts x4 @ 2 ohms which the speakers are also 2 ohms. So the front two will get plenty of power but will the rear suffer?

Front
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17730_JBL-GTO628.html
Rear
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17736_JBL-GTO938.html
Amp
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67883_MB-Quart-RA640.4.html
Head unit
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_89883_Pioneer-DEH-X4700BT.html
 
not a bad set up, but check around on prices took 2 seconds and found the exact head unit 20 bucks cheaper locally and online.
 
Are the clearances good? I will look it up before I buy but if anyone knows off the top of their head.
 
honestly, i do audio installs daily, and a set of components in front will be easy (lots of good quality hot glue, combined with the included brackets for the tweater, will be your freind), and a good deck with an inline amp (alpine makes a phenomenal 45 watt rms one, installed hundred of them) will be able to annihilate just about any quality, off the shelf speaker you can get.

any more your deck should just be considered the "signal processor", then you get the amp for the power.

most speakers nowadays come with a spacer or bracket adapter. and if you dont get one included, you can buy it.

on the 4ch amp, full size amps are passe' (sp?), ive done alot of installs and always been disappointing, the inline ones, run either RCA or line-level, beat the crap out of them.
 
honestly, i do audio installs daily, and a set of components in front will be easy (lots of good quality hot glue, combined with the included brackets for the tweater, will be your freind), and a good deck with an inline amp (alpine makes a phenomenal 45 watt rms one, installed hundred of them) will be able to annihilate just about any quality, off the shelf speaker you can get.

any more your deck should just be considered the "signal processor", then you get the amp for the power.

most speakers nowadays come with a spacer or bracket adapter. and if you dont get one included, you can buy it.

on the 4ch amp, full size amps are passe' (sp?), ive done alot of installs and always been disappointing, the inline ones, run either RCA or line-level, beat the crap out of them.
Everywhere I have researched they do not make 45-50watt head units. They make 14-22 and they say the 22 are being generous. Plus I want double the rms that my speakers put out to not over work the amp or under power the speakers. If i run 50watt rms that is under powering all 4 speakers and over powering my head unit, if I could even find one with that kind of power. Maybe I will get some components for the front and tweeters dash. I think I will go with the amp set up, just seems to make more sense. But thank you for your input and I am not doubting you, I just don't want anything to crap out. I cheaped out with my sub and blew my amp by having too little power. I sold that awhile ago though.

The amp I picked out was viewed as "good" not great nor cheap but in the middle by quite a few sites. Plus the power output isn't crazy. I think it can handle my speakers without over or under powering them, plus I can listen to them without the fear of the amp failing due to fatigue.
 
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you are right that there isnt a deck that puts out 45-50 watts rms. i stated that a quality head unit WITH and inline amp (alpine and kenwood both offer units that provide 45 watts rms per channel at 4 ohms) would net you the capability you want.

if you are wanting more power than that (i.e.- 100 watts or more rms) then you will need a fairly hefty 4 channel. in my friends 06 f150, we have alpine type r 6x8's that can take 110 watts rms, and we have a 500 watt 4 channel delivering 100 watts rms per channel. honestly, its disappointing. i have 6.5 alpine type s components and hertz 5.25 in my mazda, and with the alpine inline at only 35-40%, it blows his truck out of the water sound and quality wise. granted the cabin space plays into it, but its definitely not enough to make that much of a difference.

just my opinion, alot of time ppl over think their sound setup and spend too much money on things they end up disappointed with. do what you do, i just speak from several years of installs and personal projects/competitions. either way, good luck with it!
 
you are right that there isnt a deck that puts out 45-50 watts rms. i stated that a quality head unit WITH and inline amp (alpine and kenwood both offer units that provide 45 watts rms per channel at 4 ohms) would net you the capability you want.

if you are wanting more power than that (i.e.- 100 watts or more rms) then you will need a fairly hefty 4 channel. in my friends 06 f150, we have alpine type r 6x8's that can take 110 watts rms, and we have a 500 watt 4 channel delivering 100 watts rms per channel. honestly, its disappointing. i have 6.5 alpine type s components and hertz 5.25 in my mazda, and with the alpine inline at only 35-40%, it blows his truck out of the water sound and quality wise. granted the cabin space plays into it, but its definitely not enough to make that much of a difference.

just my opinion, alot of time ppl over think their sound setup and spend too much money on things they end up disappointed with. do what you do, i just speak from several years of installs and personal projects/competitions. either way, good luck with it!
What is the model of these head units with the inline amp?
 
the inline amp is separate, can be used with any head unit you choose.

the alpine one (better IMO) is KTP445U. it has front and rear gain, selectable dipswitches for frequency settings, and can be used with RCAs or hardwired line-level to the speaker outputs. also you wont have to buy any other power kits, as the harnesses are long enough for most 12v hookups (~3 ft) that you can find in the ign. harness or run a 10-12 gauge line to the batt.

the kenwood one is KAC-M1804, and is marine certified and sealed, but lacks gain control, so whatever you get when you hook it up is it. also i believe it lacks a built in fuse on the power wire.

they are both very compact and fit nicely behind most dashes, aside from certain german and chevy vehicles.
 
the inline amp is separate, can be used with any head unit you choose.

the alpine one (better IMO) is KTP445U. it has front and rear gain, selectable dipswitches for frequency settings, and can be used with RCAs or hardwired line-level to the speaker outputs. also you wont have to buy any other power kits, as the harnesses are long enough for most 12v hookups (~3 ft) that you can find in the ign. harness or run a 10-12 gauge line to the batt.

the kenwood one is KAC-M1804, and is marine certified and sealed, but lacks gain control, so whatever you get when you hook it up is it. also i believe it lacks a built in fuse on the power wire.

they are both very compact and fit nicely behind most dashes, aside from certain german and chevy vehicles.
Oh wow so I plug the head unit into that then use what another harness that would normally come out of the head unit out the other side and solder the speaker wires to that, correct? You think 45 watt rms is enough for those speakers that all require more? I don't starve them or over work that amp? But this is awesome, I thought you mean just a head unit and was wondering where you were getting the power from! haha also it says 45x4 at four ohms, my speakers take 2 ohms, can it run this, making the rms higher?
 
the inline amps come with an in and out harness end. so if you buy a new deck and the amplifier, and a dash kit (if needed), factory harness adapter (if it hasnt been cut off) then you should have everything you need

like i said, ive put it a ton of these amps and never had an issue with them "under powering" any speaker. 99% of the installs weve done, we havent been able to turn the gain up above 55-60%, or the speakers start to distort immensely.

i dont think you will have any issues. and yes, alot of aftermarket speakers run 2 ohm settings, and some run 8 that ive installed. you could short-hand assume that the lower the impedance, the higher the power output to the speaker, but in my experience, thats where you may run into amp issues with over heating, as the speaker will try to pull more power than the amp can provide. this goes against alot of theory and rules for speaker/amp combos, but in my real world experience, higher impedance with decent wattage nets better sound and functionality.

as far as your setup, no issue should be presented. done alot of installs with speakers of those values and never had an amp or speaker issue, as long as the customer didnt go monkey with the amp afterwards, trying to crank the gain up.
 
the inline amps come with an in and out harness end. so if you buy a new deck and the amplifier, and a dash kit (if needed), factory harness adapter (if it hasnt been cut off) then you should have everything you need

like i said, ive put it a ton of these amps and never had an issue with them "under powering" any speaker. 99% of the installs weve done, we havent been able to turn the gain up above 55-60%, or the speakers start to distort immensely.

i dont think you will have any issues. and yes, alot of aftermarket speakers run 2 ohm settings, and some run 8 that ive installed. you could short-hand assume that the lower the impedance, the higher the power output to the speaker, but in my experience, thats where you may run into amp issues with over heating, as the speaker will try to pull more power than the amp can provide. this goes against alot of theory and rules for speaker/amp combos, but in my real world experience, higher impedance with decent wattage nets better sound and functionality.

as far as your setup, no issue should be presented. done alot of installs with speakers of those values and never had an amp or speaker issue, as long as the customer didnt go monkey with the amp afterwards, trying to crank the gain up.
Ok, looking at my speakers running at 2 ohms, both take highers watts rms than this amps provides, you would still recommend this? And you say don't turn the gain up past 50ish%? I think I will go with this to avoid all that extra wiring. Thanks for your input!
 
im always partial to running a higher impedance, but to each their own.

yes i would say it should be fine, plenty loud and lots of adjustment still. you will have to obviously tune the gains and HPF to suit, so that is going to be case by case, but if you get much past 50% without distortion, id be impressed.
 
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