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Best pads for DD/track

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silvreclips

15+ Year Contributor
1,281
348
Jul 19, 2005
Greenville, South_Carolina
I am about to do a complete front brake overhaul and looking for some input on which pads people like the most. I currently have the gsx brake conversion, will be going to stainless lines with DOT 4 fluid. The car is daily driver so I need a pad that will operate when cold. I run a few autoxs each year, planning on at least 5 this season. And I would like to do at least 1 track day if the car is running good.

I have been looking at the EBC USR slotted rotors and going with either the EBC red stuff pads or the HAWK HP+ pads. Has anybody had any experience with these pads? Also other suggestions are welcome, trying to keep the pads around $100 for the front.
 
In my experience, Hawk HP+ are pretty good. Porterfield R4-S are a bit better. I haven't tried EBC.

However, be warned that no street/performance pad can truly hold up to the punishment of a full weight DSM hot lapping on a road course for more than a few hard laps at a time.

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Porterfield R4-S

After learning this myself, I resorted to a second set of "race" pads (i.e. Hawk Blues or Porterfield R4-E) which I swapped in at the track. But even that wasn't quite enough...

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Hawk Blues​

So ultimately I went with a TCE 13" Wilwood kit and Carbotech pads. But that'd be overkill for someone who only plans to hit the track a couple times a year.

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I agree and have used these pads on my ~3140 lb 95 awd w/ stock rotors/calipers:
Carbotech Panther+ now replaced by AX6? good for autoX and medium raceway, ok daily, dusty
Hawk HP+ good for autoX and light raceway, ok daily, very dusty, cheap, tends to squeak/squeal when cold
Porterfield R4-S good for autoX and daily, pricier, ok for light raceway, dusty
 
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I realize that there will never be a pad that can cover all of those conditions. I was just trying to stay away from something that would be a complete let down. I looked at the porterfields on RREs site but did not find much info on the net about them. Carbotechs seem to be great pads but a little on the pricey side.

Scott - can u elaborate a little more on why you think the porterfields were better than the HP+ pads. Any characterisitcs that made them worse than the hp+. I wish there was some feedback on the EBC reds I have heard good things about the new compound.
 
Scott - can u elaborate a little more on why you think the porterfields were better than the HP+ pads. Any characteristics that made them worse than the hp+.
I didn't run them back-to-back, but I found the HP+ to fade where the R4-S never did. Also, the HP+ were more dusty and noisy. Both offered great initial bite.

The pic I posted above of the crumbled R4-S was a week or so after a hard lapping day. My brakes got hot enough to melt my valve stem caps, but the R4-S never faded. Instead, they disintegrated after the fact. ROFL

I'd suggest starting with the HP+ as they're not too expensive. If you find they don't cut it, then try Porterfield or Carbotech. I've never used Carbotech with stock brakes, but I love them with my Wilwood big brake kit. :thumb:
 
Thanks Scott for the information. I am now leaning toward the hp+ pads. Still would like to hear something on the red stuff pads. Regardless I will be ordering something in the next week and will be letting you guys know how they turn out whichever pad I chose.
 
I ran Greens when they first came out - autocrossing on street tyres burnt them up. I tried A-N-Other EBC compound they sent me, but I had the opposite problem - they wouldn't heat up enough. That said, EBC are always refining their compounds, so my experience my no longer be valid.

I've run HP+ pads in my 'serious' a/x car, and I had no brakes, I may as well have had blocks of Teflon in the calipers. That's on race tyres mind, but R4S work much better on the same car (until they get the white crumblies and go AWOL :) IMO HP and HP+ are a complete waste of money unless you need to dramatically reduce the brake bias at one end.

After the HP+ debacle we tried Carbotech Panther+ and they hit the mark. Stock 2G AWD brakes on race tyres, and they were just enough. They worked - they handled the heat and gave better-than-R4S stopping. Could have used a higher cf, but they worked.

Now I have Carbotech AX6, however my rules changed and i now have a completely different braking system, so I can't compare this to anything else.

I still run R4S in my street DSM, they work really well with street tyres, from cold to hot, very stable, very consistent. Great wear rate too. Hard to argue with that.


Oh, one thing I should have added - don't drill, slot, or otherwise molest your rotors. DSMs have woefully inadequate brakes, amongst their many faults is inadequate heat sink mass - ie the rotors get too hot too quickly and can't cool off. Any additional removal of mass will only exacerbate this problem - get teh heaviest rotors you can (unless they're two-piece of course)
 
I've run Axxis Metalmasters and Hawk HPS pads. Both saw DD and autox duty.

I'm really not impressed with the HPS's. They haven't impressed me in any way, shape, or form.

The Metalmasters were pretty good. They have a better bite when cold, but eventually fade under heavy use. I use them for winter DD pads.

After riding in a friend's Eclipse, who's running R4-S's, I'll be switching to them before the next autox season.
 
I'd get R4S's for street/autocross. Anything else is a waste IMO. I've been out of "the game" for a while, but the only thing EBC has ever had going for them was their marketing campaign.

R4Es are good if you're actually going to race "the big track" but they have a habit of causing extreme knockback as they love to chew up rotors. I ran R4E's up front and R4S in the rear with success.
 
MetalMasters are fine ... until you get serious about your left-foot braking. First time I went to a big event, it was up in New England with ACM and Fedja. I was several seconds behind and Fedja told me to left-foot brake (which I'd never done before). Worked great, right up until the brakes faded to zero and my attempt to scrub off speed put me at least 100' off in the scrub after doing a 540 on the pavement.

Only after I got the car back to the grid did Fedja bother to ask me what kind of brake pads I had.

Worst of all, my brother, who had been filming our runs, had gotten tired of watching his widdle brudder get his butt whooped and wasn't there any more.
 
I had the MetalMasters fade while on a spirited cruise. Hence why they're winter DD pads. My friend never mentioned knockback problems with his R4S's.

R4E's are a lot more aggressive compound than the R4S, which leads to rotor chewage. They stay together much better than the R4S on track days, but I would never use them for an autocross.
 
I used the metalmasters for my last set of pads and wasnt really that impressed with them. Its looking like I am going to be ordering the HP+ pads. It will be a few weeks before I get them on since the tranny just died this past weekend
 
Don't waste your money on HPS or HP+ - Porterfield R4S does everything and far more than the Hawks could ever dream of. I've run all three, honestly, R4S are head and shoulders above the Hawks.
 
I think you'll be happy with the R4S pads, based on what some of the feedback here from guys that I know are pretty knowledgable on the subject - and RRE tends to sell stuff that they've tested on their old road race cars, so I'd keep that in mind too. I know I used Metalmasters a lot before I did much tracking and before I upgraded to the TCE big brake kit. They seemed like a nice street pad but would fade a little on my more "spirited" drives through the twisty roads.
 
R4E's are a lot more aggressive compound than the R4S, which leads to rotor chewage. They stay together much better than the R4S on track days, but I would never use them for an autocross.

R4E's are however, the easiest on rotors of any of the race compound pads I've tried. I actually use them the day before, the drive to and from the track and a day or 2 after, if I'm feeling particularly lazy. They are noisy bi7ches though.

Some others, eat up rotors just on the drive home.
 
Well finally got around to replacing the brakes on the front end. After rewiring the engine bay for stand alone MS, tie rods replaced along with a wheel bearing and a few other things.

I have SS lines going in, EBC slotted rotors are on the car. I ordered a set of R4-S from RRE, however after 2 weeks I called them up only to find out they are out of stock. Talked with one of the guys there and he suggested I run the Stoptech 309 pads instead. In his opinion they were better pads for what I was planning on doing with them. They should be here today, still have to get an alignment this week and hitting up an autox this weekend so Ill let you guys know what I think of the new setup. Thanks for all your help
 
Well it took about 4 months to trash a whole set of stoptech pads. Those pads were awesome for autox and daily driving. With under 2k street miles and 3 autox's I took them out for a track day. They faded after maybe 5 hard laps, kept having to do a cool down lap every couple of laps. After about 3 20min sessions the pads where completely gone.

These pads are horrible for track days and I do not recommend them.

I ended up upgrading to 13" cobra rotors and cobra calipers over the winter. I actually went back with the stoptech 309 pads on this setup because of how well they performed at the autoxs. I will be buying a dedicated track pads before going back to the track.

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Those images look all too familiar, even if running track pads.

My ultimate solution was a TCE 13" Track kit. Your decision to upgrade to the 13" Cobra setup is well founded.
 
Completely killed my StopTech Street pads at Buttonwillow last weekend (to the back plate/very little stopping power on the street now LOL...). Car's 3200 w/driver & gas.
  1. Do you guys think Porterfield R4S or Project Mu B-Force would be ok for time attack?
  2. Will any pads on stock 2g GSX calipers be good enough?
  3. Should I just go to Evo 8/9 Brembo's?
 
I like my porterfield a lot but I also have the outlander kit. I would use a high grade pad like porterfield or hawk over any pad you'd get at autozone. If that's not enough then maybe look into brembos but if you go brembos you might need new wheels depending on what you have already
 
1. Are you running hot laps or running sessions trying to hit a target/average time?
  • I would go with neither of your pad choices. I would look at Carbotech. XP 6/8 for hot laps, and XP10 for sessions (great for track days).
2. No, not "any" pad would be good enough.
  • The correct size in any of the Carbotech pads previously listed would work in the correct size (530-front, 383-rear).
3. The Brembo upgrade would be $1,000-1,500 depending on how you go about it. The higher end of that number includes jdm knuckles, track pads, larger master cylinder, and titanium backing plates.
  • If your not ready for such a commitment, I would suggest the Outlander caliper brackets (uses same caliper as 2g DSM) to use larger vented rotors. I have been pleased with the performance of Centric blanks. I use the Outlander setup just for track days. You will want to have a dedicated set of rotors for track pads as it is important to have them properly bedded. It is an easy swap to change the caliper bracket, install track pads, install Outlander rotors, and thorough bleed with high-temp brake fluid (very important).
  • Have an extra set of calipers ready to swap as the boots will not hold up well to the heat of track days. I get about two track days out of a stock caliper before I have to replace the boots. Even running ATE fluid. I am only running this setup at the moment because need to be able to use 15 inch rims.

My ideal setup is being pieced together to swap when the dedicated rallycross car is done. It includes a freshly rebuilt set of Evo 9 Brembos that have not been previously taken apart (possible leak issues and difficulty finding a certain o-ring). There is a company that sells great quality rebuild kits with high-temp boots. I also plan to get titanium backing plates. For pads, I will stick with Carbotech XP10's for track days. I will also stick with Centric blanks for rotors. JDM knuckles and Evo/3g master cylinder are also on my list of things to get.

I also plan to try this ducting out this season as well:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/porsche-gt3-brake-ducts-installed-on-2g.490249/
 
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Thanks @99ECLIPSEGSXDSM! Currently running 17x7.5 Kosei K-1's but thinking about a 8.5 or 9" wheel.

@2gmitsueclipse
  1. The way @RedlineTimeAttack is setup is you have 2 TA sessions of 5 laps clean laps each, as cars are sent out by lap times. The rest of the day is setup like normal HPDE (~20 min sessions).
  2. Sorry, what I meant is the stock caliper setup enough braking when paired with the most aggressive pads. I asked about PMu B-Force as that's what my sponsor has in stock. Ideally I'd go PMu Club Racer or 999 (depending on answer to 2 :) ) but that will take 2 months as they have to mfr it then ocean freight.
  3. I'm seeing Brembo sets around 6-800 but I guess install is a bit involved? (6+ hrs)
Wow the stock caliper boots are that weak? Are there upgraded options?
 
I would still go with track only pads on the stock caliper if you hold off on Brembo's for now. I am not familiar with PMu pads. Whatever track pad you decide to go with, get rotors just for those pads. Blanks will be your best bet. I started having to replace the boots after a couple tracks days using the track pads. Unfortunately there aren't any manufactures that make titanium backing plates for OE style pads. Two tracks days for me consist of a total of about ten 20 minute sessions. I have not been able to find high-temp boots for the DSM caliper. Other considerations have to be the track you go to as well. A more technical course will require more braking and have less time for the brakes to cool.

I have heard the Brembo setup can have the same boot issue as well, but there are more options to choose from. I would imagine the most time consuming part of the install will be the master cylinder if you choose to swap it for a larger one. I plan to use the jdm knuckles instead of brackets. for the actual caliper swap shouldn't take more than 2 hours. I have been tracking the car for the last 1.5 years and have gotten really efficient at swapping out the brakes.
 
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