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Holset HX35W Dyno... What an I missing?

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NordicSaab

10+ Year Contributor
198
25
Oct 6, 2011
Tampa, Florida
Hey all. My concern is that my hx35w setup is laggy-er than it should be. I am using the stock 7 blade hx35 housing and an internal wastegate. Here is the rest of the mods I have (some are irrelivant):

Holset HX35W (Stock Housing)
ID 2000 Injectors
Hawver Intake Manifold
NGR BOV
Custom Radiator Overflow Tank
Relocated Lower Radiator Support
Jay Racing Alternator Relocation
2.75" Aluminum Intke Piping
Aluminum Radiator
Custom Aluminum Fan Shroud
x2 12" Spal Fans
3" Custom Downpipe
3" Downpipe Back Exhaust (No Muffler, No Cat)
Large FMIC
DSM Link V3
Speed Density
JMF 7 Gallon Fuel Cell
Walbro 455
Aeromotive FPR
Aeromotive Inline Filter
Stainless Steel Fuel lines
AN Fitting on OEM Fuel Rail
17" Evo Enkei Wheels
Hankook RS-3 Street Tires
Pirelli Race Slicks
Brass Shifter Bushings
Aluminum Drive Shaft Bushings
Urethane Engine Inserts
BulFab Front Engine Mount Bar
Gutted Interior
4 Point Cage (Soon to be 10 point)
Removable Lexan Side Windows
ACT Stage 3 Clutch
Hawk Blue Race Pads
Corbeau FX1 Race Seat
Race Seat Back Brace to Cage

I have attached the Dyno chart below. Car is running off of e85 and the only thing I can think would cause the lag would be the exhaust manifold is a cheap t3 open dumping into the the divided ts hx35 housing. How much power could that be costing me down low?

At this point I have ordered kiggley valve springs and an underdrive pulley set. In the Dyno I only revved to 7k rpm. I plan to take it to 8200 with those modifications.

According to my tuner and the Dyno the car should gain about 10hp/100 rpm until the power curve peaks. Idk where in the curve it will peak...

Last dyno produced 450awhp.

Thoughts? Does this look like a pretty normal torque curve? Thank you advance for the input.

Dyno video:
1993 Eagle Talon HX35 Dyno. 450awhp. Tucker Perf…:
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It looks normal to me. How much boost? Cams? The 12cm housing is about a .84 or so. Look at a 6262 or 35R in a .82, it's gonna be pretty similar. Get some kiggly springs and wind that bi*** out. It wants 9500! I can't believe how much power it's still picking up at 7000. That thing is gonna make 550 at 7800 or so I bet.
 
Thanks for the reply. Boost is set to 32psi. First gear peaks at 28/29 psi and will hit 31psi before the 7k redline. I should also point out that dyno is only up up to 6850rpms rather than the 7k I quoted earlier.

As far as cams, it is still on stock cams.
 
Ok. It's a little low for the boost I'd say, but the stock cams will do that. Stock cams/stock springs I wouldn't be scared to take it 8500.

Get your self a set of HKS or Kelford 272's and kigglys street springs and wind that bi*** 9k.

As another data point I ran a WH1C in a 16ish cm housing. I made about 450 dynojet on a stock intake and HKS272 regrinds at about 24psi. It made 24psi by 5200RPM.

I'm really thrilled you posted this. I'm excited to play with a 12cm housing on my WH1C or my HE351.
 
I think the power is pretty good for stock head and an hx35. I think the torque is really low and the power band is lazy. People are probably going to ask for a log, but u also have a major mismatch of cams and intake mani, causing low torque and a really late torque peak for that turbo. The car probably doesn't feel like that muxh fun (and thays why we do this crap right?)because of the lag and 450 is great but isn't take your breath away power. Usually that king of late torque peak comes with power that is scary on the street.
 
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I think the power is pretty good for stock head and an hx35. I think the torque is really low and the power band is lazy. People are probably going to ask for a log, but u also have a major mismatch of cams and intake mani, causing low torque and a really late torque peak for that turbo. The car probably doesn't feel like that muxh fun (and thays why we do this crap right?)because of the lag and 450 is great but isn't take your breath away power. Usually that king of late torque peak comes with power that is scary on the street.
e85 and 450? nah man.
something about your car sounds raspy? maybe it's just the video and the enclosed shop but that car doesn't sound anything like any 4g63 i've heard, do you have any exhaust leaks? something else is affecting spool/how your car runs, was hoping a wiseman would get in here before i had the chance. no offense but that is a terrible hp and tq curve, when do you hit full boost?
 
Boost control, i.e. wastegate? Internal adjustible holset wastegate. Set to 32 psi.

DSM Link is running off speed density[DOUBLEPOST=1418183479][/DOUBLEPOST]Car will hit full boost at about 5500 rpm. I'm aware of the weak torque curve which is why this post exists. Exhaust has no leaks. Intake has no leaks.
 
I think he means how are you controlling the wastegate.

I just took off a 7 blade hx35 in a .55 bolt. On housing this past weekend. I made 20 less hp and 60 more torque with 25 psi. This was with a stock intake and bc272. My car had a good power band, bit I put a lot of effort into optimizing the modest setup I had. I don't know much about the hawker mani, but if I was going to run a manifold with a smaller turbo likean hx35, I'd run the somthing like the small jmf that is designed for moderate horsepower cars. You should have no problem smashing 500hp with cams and 30plus psi.
 
Ahh, that's what your curve looks like it does. Running a ball and spring will give you boost a few hundred RPM sooner. I wanna say when I had a 12cm on my car it had 25psi at a little after 4500.

See where the torque curve lays over at 5000? That's the wastegate starting to crack, and slowing down the spool. With a ball and spring MBC, ideally the wga doesn't get a signal untill boost gets to the set point.

Leaving it the way you have it is easier on the motor and trans.

Guys remember the HX35 is a pretty big turbo, it's close in size to a 35R, and it's in a .84A/R ish housing. It's doing pretty good imho.

How much timing is in it at 32psi, and what spark plugs? What AFR's?

My advice is get some cams in it, and go from there.
 
I don't think of the hx35 as a large turbo. It definarly doesnt compare to a 6262 or 3582r. Like u said above. msybe the 3071.Its a 56/70 exhaust iirc and 7 blade is 56 compressor. I got pretty good response out if mine with the bep housing, link boost control, and cam timing. I was really glad to get back to a hot rodded 20g though.
 
It's not large, but it's not a 14b. An HX35 is either 56/83 or 54/78 comp, and 70/60 turbine. A standard 35R is 62/82 comp and 68/62. It's pretty close in size, so it's gonna spool similar.
 
Yea I got sucked into the holset hand holding on this forum and threw one on in a whim without even looking. I didntthink it was that great. It took a lot of time with a serious engine expert to tweaking my cam timing plus my high comp motor even get close to some of the wild spool claims for the hx35 thrown around on this forum. But even so I think the thread starters response is worse than average. Like I said, I'm glad to be back with a 20g. My dsm is just a fun street beater to tear around in. I want maximum response and enough horsepower for my 4 year old to think daddy has a rocket ship. (which I found is only about 200 in actuality)
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I should point out that this car is really not a street car. It is used for NASA racing in the southeast and I'm just getting back into the whole DSM scene. The low torque early in the rpm curve is not a huge issue because the car will rarely see -5000 rpm in a race situation.

Based on the feedback I will upgrade the valve springs to the kiggley beehives and rev the car out to 8500 rpm. I see no reason this car will not be producing 520awhp+ with this simple change.

Some of you pointed out that the car was (only) making 450awhp with this setup. I respect that point, but I have only dyno'ed the car to 6850rpm. Those familiar with the HP/TQ formula will realize the significance of this condition.

I really appreciate all the feedback and will update in the next couple of weeks when I redyno the car with the higher redline. Please subscribe!

Happy Holidays.
 
...the only thing I can think would cause the lag would be the exhaust manifold is a cheap t3 open dumping into the the divided ts hx35 housing.
Bingo.

Without a properly-built twin-scroll manifold, you're getting all the lag of a 12cm2 housing without the spool benefit of twin-scroll.

((cm^2 x 8) - 7) / 100 = a/r ratio

12cm2 = .89 a/r

Properly-built 12cm2 twin-scroll HX35's can provide positive manifold pressure sooner than a 16G in some cases. For what you're doing you'd be better-off with a HY35- smaller turbine, smaller T3 single-scroll turbine housing (9cm2 or .65 a/r). You'd gain spool without losing any compressor potential.
 
So is the ideal situation to get a new header built to capitalize on the ts housing?

Hypothetically, what kind of results would that yield?
 
I can tell you from experience that the HY turbine does restrict the compressor. I've run them both and HX in the 12cm definatly makes more power at the same boost as the hy in the 9cm.

The twin scroll HX35 is a waste of time. 1 person, ONE PERSON had it work ok. The hy will scroll better than the t/s hx in my experience, and the t/s won't make shit for power.

The hx/hy35, can make 600whp. A 600whp turbo isn't a fast spooling turbo.

How about you get some cams and springs in it, and let it run where it wants to. You get some decent cams in it, and it's gonna be making 600 at 8000RPM.
 
I can tell you from experience that the HY turbine does restrict the compressor. I've run them both and HX in the 12cm definatly makes more power at the same boost as the hy in the 9cm.
That may be true in your case, but I know of two users who have pushed the 54/78 HX35 compressor beyond the map in a HY35- one with a 2.4L in an Evo...so that tells me there's definitely not enough restriction to impact compressor potential.
 
So... just a quick note. The car went under the knife again and got kiggley valve springs and a set of underdrive pulleys...

Not really sure what happened but the boost spiked to 40PSI and the car laid down 600awhp.

I will post a dyno chart when I have a minute. At this point I will need to dial down the HP. I'll update again soon.
 
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