bearings will work well at keeping it spinning right, you could also shed some heat by making some grooved channels in the bearing housings that are fed from the engine using oil to help cool the bearings a bit, maybe you could make like a feed and return line for lubricant to enter the ball [or needle bearing] and then exit away from a bearing and return it top the oil pan.

Could these work?
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/3166/4x7x2-SMR74

or

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Needle-Bearings/831/7x11x9-HK0709

Is there A way I could make this an sealed oil system.. What I'm trying to avoid is tapping in to the car's oil at all.. Remember, This will not be attached to the exhaust housing so it will not be exposed to high heat temperature like a normal exhaust driven turbo.

How would I mold the model to hold these correctly?

EDIT: Never mind.. Just read the epoxy comment... That works! I could most definitely do that, Just gotta change the size of my shaft holes. by 3mm

I might go with an enclosed radial bearing system though like this one:

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/16411/4x7x2-5-MR74LL

Changed the model to accept 7mm Bearings like the above radial bearings. Also decreased the size to save on printing time and plastic needed. Because of the epoxy solution, I will not be adding a middle bracket as the epoxy on the outher bearings along with the side brackets should hold this in place. Bearings should be easily be able to be slid in our out as well.

Additionally, those radial bearings will work til around 270 degrees F as long as they are oiled properly, so they should work just fine.

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

I'm talking RC lipos too. Thunder power makes a racing lipo and it's only a 2 cell and is 65c and 130 burst. I've started a car with it . On a mamba motor rc 1/10 scale car it'd last an hour beating hard on it so the batteries last long, although an alternator design would be better real world.

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That's crazy.

Teknicalissue, instead of a two piece design that has to be held together why not use a single plate with bearings pressed in to support the motor and turbo shafts?

mbyoung424 said:

Teknicalissue, instead of a two piece design that has to be held together why not use a single plate with bearings pressed in to support the motor and turbo shafts?

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That's what I was thinking to, it would be more sturdy which is definitely what you're going for with that piece. Unless his printer isn't big enough, which I kinda doubt with this small of a piece.

I thought I had read earlier that helical gears we're going to be used. If that's the case, wouldn't thrust bearings be needed instead of radial bearings? Once everything is put together you should be able to create a housing that this carrier plate bolts onto that would allow for a lubricant to be held inside. Not sure what would be used for those speeds, but I'm sure something is available to suit this application. I also agree that it be in your best interest to design the turbo/motor setup and give a specific volt/amp to use and leave it to the end user to attach power.

mbyoung424 said:

That's crazy.

Teknicalissue, instead of a two piece design that has to be held together why not use a single plate with bearings pressed in to support the motor and turbo shafts?

Click to expand...

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

That's what I was thinking to, it would be more sturdy which is definitely what you're going for with that piece. Unless his printer isn't big enough, which I kinda doubt with this small of a piece.

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I could eventually convert this in to a 1 piece design ( I can even create a model rather quickly )... And it's not a bad idea. I might still go forward with this temporarily and eventually create the one piece for the final prototype. This way, It's easier for me to add/remove the bracket as I play around with mounting positions and what not. I still need to add more to this model as this same piece will hold the motor in place and keep the gears aligned. I'm waiting on a compressor wheel from the Turbo company so I'm in a bit of a stand still as far as measurements are concerned. I will be keeping you guys posted with what I come up with!

mbyoung424 said:

I thought I had read earlier that helical gears we're going to be used. If that's the case, wouldn't thrust bearings be needed instead of radial bearings? Once everything is put together you should be able to create a housing that this carrier plate bolts onto that would allow for a lubricant to be held inside. Not sure what would be used for those speeds, but I'm sure something is available to suit this application. I also agree that it be in your best interest to design the turbo/motor setup and give a specific volt/amp to use and leave it to the end user to attach power.

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This changed. for my next prototype (the one I'll be taking pics for and sharing) I'll be using brass spur gears instead of the helical gears. Reason for this is the bearing AND I could mount it horizontally instead of having the motor be vertically which gives the housing a weird odd shape if I were to make it. After looking a bit, The spur gear set-up looks way better and mounting solutions are easier to make in comparison to the helical gears.

Hmm.. I just got off the phone with a bearings manufacturer and was told that the bearings would not be able to tolerate anything past 50k RPM.. This presents a problem as the turbo compressor wheel will be spinning at 150k RPM. The copper pipe might be a good solution for a testing application.. But would rather find something a little bit more permanent.

Anybody have any Ideas?

EDIT: hmm... I could make the holes in the one piece big enough to fit the ball bearing cartridge? I'd assume this would require oil to be tapped in correct?

EDIT: Success! I just got off the phone with a bearings company able to provide me with an open ball-bearing system capable of 500,000 RPM without additional oil lines and what not. The best part is that this came out to be rather cheap in comparison to the other companies I called.

We are back in the Game!

I've also did the rough math and for $450 dollars, I can definitely convert your old 14b's (Journal or BB) in to electric superchargers.. What a nice way of using your old 14b huh

teknicalissue said:

I don't have the proper tools to measure CFM but I can tell you that I'm at full boost in less than a quarter of a second. If you have any way I could get more information for you, feel free to chime in! once again.. I'm not a turbo expert or anything of the sort. Just a guy who thought about something while in the shower



indeed, I meant 14b... Sorry

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Gotcha. It was a little ambiguous to me what compressor and housing you were using, but now that I know it's a 14b and you get instaspool, it's peaked my interest.
With a bunch of manufacturers looking at electrical superchargers/turbos/etc, it would be nice to see a reliable homegrown version. If you could get it to market, I see Shark Tank/Dragons Den in your future haha

teknicalissue said:

Hmm.. I just got off the phone with a bearings manufacturer and was told that the bearings would not be able to tolerate anything past 50k RPM.. This presents a problem as the turbo compressor wheel will be spinning at 150k RPM. The copper pipe might be a good solution for a testing application.. But would rather find something a little bit more permanent.

Anybody have any Ideas?

EDIT: hmm... I could make the holes in the one piece big enough to fit the ball bearing cartridge? I'd assume this would require oil to be tapped in correct?

EDIT: Success! I just got off the phone with a bearings company able to provide me with an open ball-bearing system capable of 500,000 RPM without additional oil lines and what not. The best part is that this came out to be rather cheap in comparison to the other companies I called.

We are back in the Game!

I've also did the rough math and for $450 dollars, I can definitely convert your old 14b's (Journal or BB) in to electric superchargers.. What a nice way of using your old 14b huh

Click to expand...

oh hell yea!!!

Got to thinking about flow rating on this turbo. Can you not use a mass airflow sensor out of a car to measure the output? IIRC a MAS puts out 0-5 volts depending on amount of air, so it should be a matter or connecting it to a volt meter and calibrating this gauge on something of known CFM.

91-GS said:

Got to thinking about flow rating on this turbo. Can you not use a mass airflow sensor out of a car to measure the output? IIRC a MAS puts out 0-5 volts depending on amount of air, so it should be a matter or connecting it to a volt meter and calibrating this gauge on something of known CFM.

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Thats actually a really good idea. Put piping as well in with a filter to simulate and intake so you get the most accurate real world numbers.

Interesting vid Chumpa, because our cars aren't complicated enough already! ! Seriously though, pretty amazing that they can interface with the supercharger with such precision and on demand power!

DSM Dreamer said:

Interesting vid Chumpa, because our cars aren't complicated enough already! ! Seriously though, pretty amazing that they can interface with the supercharger with such precision and on demand power!

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Its a fantastic idea with such a wide variety of uses, to the OP, how strong is the cogging on that motor

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

Thats actually a really good idea. Put piping as well in with a filter to simulate and intake so you get the most accurate real world numbers.

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Indeed.. Once I get this proto going, I'll find a MAF somewhere and figure something out. Aside from this.. Just wanted to give you guys a pic of what the gearing will look like with the one piece:



Pretty Huge huh? The large gear is the motor and the small gear is the turbo. The motor didn't have an issue spinning the Bevel gears so I would assume that it's not gonna have issues spinning the driving spur gear. Really thinking about where I could add some sort of Pan for the drive motor to pick up oil while spinning. Oil weight is definitely going to be an interesting topic.. heavy oils + cold may equal to the motor not being able to spin the drive gear...

Hmmm.. Another thing that came to mind is the mounting.. While I'm waiting on parts, I fear that if I put the motor how it is illustrated in the pictures then it may not fit the back of the turbo.. Definitely gotta get more measurements out there. Oh well, Slowly but surely right?

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

Its a fantastic idea with such a wide variety of uses, to the OP, how strong is the cogging on that motor

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Don't remember off the top of my head but I might be able to find it somewhere in the specs manual. Strong enough to spin that Sun sized spur gear XD

teknicalissue said:

Don't remember off the top of my head but I might be able to find it somewhere in the specs manual. Strong enough to spin that Sun sized spur gear XD

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Does it spin freely by hand? Or does it try to stick and not spin? I'd like to see some videos!

An idea like this has been done for the frs. Take a look, it may give you some ideas.
Sorry if someone already posted about this, it's late here.http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

Does it spin freely by hand? Or does it try to stick and not spin? I'd like to see some videos!

Click to expand...

You could turn it by hand with moderate friction (I wish I could measure that). It doesn't spin freely but at the same time, you can turn it with some force. Once I get this built, There will be videos! In the mean time, Stay tuned! I'm assuming you asked because of the size of the gears and torque! On my very first test with plastic spur gears on 7.4v; The turbo gear would try to keep spinning if I stopped the electric motor too fast. After a couple of flying teeth though, I was able to program the motor to slowly slow down which results in no grinding or teeth flying everywhere.

p_o_s_pc said:

An idea like this has been done for the frs. Take a look, it may give you some ideas.
Sorry if someone already posted about this, it's late here.http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719

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Wow! That looks very similar to what I'm building! It's a shame though that it only builds 4.2 PSI and looking at the pictures, it appears that they attached a similar motor to mine directly to the compressor wheel. Sadly, these motors spin at about 60k RPM's which is why it appears they are building about 4,2 PSI... Gearing is definitely needed for this to push the turbo hard.

As a side note... Lego's are made from the same plastic I'll be using for the case.. Can anyone stick 2 Lego's under their engine bay? One would be on top of the valve cover, and the other one can be taped about 5 - 6 inches away from your current turbo's inlet. What i'm looking for is warping. I expect the lego on the valve cover to warp but the one by the turbo should be fine.

/

teknicalissue said:

You could turn it by hand with moderate friction (I wish I could measure that). It doesn't spin freely but at the same time, you can turn it with some force. Once I get this built, There will be videos! In the mean time, Stay tuned! I'm assuming you asked because of the size of the gears and torque! On my very first test with plastic spur gears on 7.4v; The turbo gear would try to keep spinning if I stopped the electric motor too fast. After a couple of flying teeth though, I was able to program the motor to slowly slow down which results in no grinding or teeth flying everywhere.

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That's good I was wondering if you would have to program that in there. I was just going to suggest that if the friction is too high. ABS is some strong stuff, but it melts at 221 degrees F so I would strongly suggest Aluminum or a mild steel. Also, the motor will spin up/spin slower in a simulated intake environment because it will be under load, so that should be interesting to see how that is affected. What are the specs on the gears? Robinson Racing (RC car gears manufacturer) Makes great steel gears and maybe I could track down something that will fit the bill for you?

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

/
That's good I was wondering if you would have to program that in there. I was just going to suggest that if the friction is too high. ABS is some strong stuff, but it melts at 221 degrees F so I would strongly suggest Aluminum or a mild steel. Also, the motor will spin up/spin slower in a simulated intake environment because it will be under load, so that should be interesting to see how that is affected. What are the specs on the gears? Robinson Racing (RC car gears manufacturer) Makes great steel gears and maybe I could track down something that will fit the bill for you?

Click to expand...

Sure thing!

The drive gear is 120 teeth and its Diameter is 91.5mm. Ideally I would need one with a 4mm bore but they were only able to provide them to me with a bore 6 so I had to buy a reducer.

The turbo gear is a 30 teeth with a diameter of 24mm and a bore of 6mm.

Both gears are set screw.

The good thing about this turbo is that you could place it anywhere in the engine bay as long as you can pipe it. My printer only prints PLA or ABS so I'm a tad limited to that but might get models out to a CNC shop when I have everything done. I might still sell an ABS model for the price though and clearly state that it needs to be tucked in a place where it is cool. This would be an awesome application for a long route CAI that's for sure!

On a curious note... I wonder how much heat those gears will generate with friction

EDIT:

I created two new models illustration the motor/hub/gear setup and made changes that I didn't see before. For one, The motor hole does not require bearings due to the closeness of the gear.. I made the hole 4.5mm and left a .5mm gap which should be more than enough.

I also had to make the motor side thinner by .75mm which resulted in me creating a thicker block in the middle to keep things sturdy.

I also create the motor mounting holes as well which should mount my bracket nicely on the motor.

The only two things I need to figure out now before I start printing is figuring out an oil pan for the gears (enclosed with a fill plug) and how I'm going to mount this on the turbo.

Chumpaumpalumpa said:

Does it spin freely by hand? Or does it try to stick and not spin? I'd like to see some videos!

Click to expand...

Just a thought, could you use a inch/lb torque wrench and dial it down until it clicks prior to the gears moving to figure out what amount of torque is required to spin the gears? Wouldn't give you friction, but it should give you an idea of how much effort is required. This is really coming along great.

mbyoung424 said:

Just a thought, could you use a inch/lb torque wrench and dial it down until it clicks prior to the gears moving to figure out what amount of torque is required to spin the gears? Wouldn't give you friction, but it should give you an idea of how much effort is required. This is really coming along great.

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you could but it would be more in the gram/in range.