420A Crower stage 2 cam idle fix (Hahn Portfueler setup)

powellds2 · Dec 24, 2014

I have a Hahn turbo setup on one of my car with the Portfueler and Crower stage 2 n/a cams. I know I've read where guys have used the safc to lean out the rich idle, but I was wondering if there were any other products that did that for cheaper or easier. I'm just looking to lean out my idle since the Crower 2's make it idle rich. Any ideas? Or is the SAFC/SAFC2 my only options? I would really like to lean out the idle, really need to get ms2 on this thing...

powellds2 · Jan 5, 2015

Damn, does anyone get on here or 2gnt anymore?

ez@2gnt · Jan 6, 2015

The SAFC is a very poor band-aid. The ECU quickly learns when the MAP sensor is modified and soon goes back to its previous behavior. You'll find that the MS2 is probably your only adequate solution.

It's interesting that the cams cause you to run rich at idle. How rich? I'm about to go the portfueler route, as I have stock cams (called up Hahn today to order but I couldn't get anyone on the phone).

powellds2 · Jan 13, 2015

ez@2gnt said:
The SAFC is a very poor band-aid. The ECU quickly learns when the MAP sensor is modified and soon goes back to its previous behavior. You'll find that the MS2 is probably your only adequate solution.

It's interesting that the cams cause you to run rich at idle. How rich? I'm about to go the portfueler route, as I have stock cams (called up Hahn today to order but I couldn't get anyone on the phone).

It's been a while, so I'm not sure what the afr was, but I know it was rich. I thought I remembered reading where people successfully leaned out the idle with an SAFC and fixed it. I know it's a "band aid" type fix, but it's just idle, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

BoostforBreakfast · Jan 14, 2015

MS or AEM FIC. ditch the SAFC.

powellds2 · Jan 19, 2015

BoostforBreakfast said:
MS or AEM FIC. ditch the SAFC.

I'm running the portfueler (FIC), I'm talking about just smoothing out the idle with the safc. Did you read my first post?

Slo2gen · Jan 19, 2015

Have you degreed the cams in? Often you get rid of a lot of the overlap when you do this, some people don't like it because it doesn't "sound" mean anymore but the performance speaks for it self. You could also increase idle RPM to give a bit more vac so the ecu won't dump as much fuel whether it be with a controlled bleed valve or something else...

Edit: The afc trick is an option for you but it may not be the best. I guess if it came down to the last thing to try you could do it and it would work, just not ideal.

powellds2 · Jan 22, 2015

Slo2gen said:
Have you degreed the cams in? Often you get rid of a lot of the overlap when you do this, some people don't like it because it doesn't "sound" mean anymore but the performance speaks for it self. You could also increase idle RPM to give a bit more vac so the ecu won't dump as much fuel whether it be with a controlled bleed valve or something else...

Edit: The afc trick is an option for you but it may not be the best. I guess if it came down to the last thing to try you could do it and it would work, just not ideal.

Yeah, already degreed the cams. It runs good, just the damn rich idle is what pissing me off. Throttle response is suffering from it since it's so rich. Just wanted to cut some of the fuel out at idle with the afc. Just wondering if there's something cheaper that does what the afc does. Or do I need the safc or safc 2? Will the regular afc suffice for what I'm trying to accomplish?

jared98gst · Jan 22, 2015

2 has more rpm points I believe, would be better suited if idle is way outta wack compared to rest of fuel table

BoostforBreakfast · Jan 22, 2015

The AEM FIC can do exactly what the SAFC can do. Have you even looked into the MAP maps? all the SAFC does is modify the map signal.... nothing else. The AEM FIC can also adjust the map sensor (along with all the other things like direct injector control, timing control, etc.)

powellds2 · Jan 23, 2015

BoostforBreakfast said:
The AEM FIC can do exactly what the SAFC can do. Have you even looked into the MAP maps? all the SAFC does is modify the map signal.... nothing else. The AEM FIC can also adjust the map sensor (along with all the other things like direct injector control, timing control, etc.)

I'm on the Portfueler right now, would it be better to go AEM FIC? I've tuned quite a few Portfueler setups, is the FIC easier? I had read that all the kinks weren't worked out.

BoostforBreakfast · Jan 23, 2015

I've ran the AEM fic on 3 "420a"-based setups (2 neons and 1 avenger) and have had good results. the 1910 will throw a CEL for injector circuit (no injector resistance seen at the ecu), but IIRC the 1913 has the circuit to load the ecu as if injectors were present. Very good piggyback system imo (of course a full standalone is always recommended)
I havent messed with portfueler however, so I cant give you a comparison. Download the AEM FIC software off AEM's website and take a look at its interface. To view datalogs, you will need to download the AEM pro software package in order to get AEMlog, which you use to view the FIC's logs.

powellds2 · Jan 23, 2015

BoostforBreakfast said:
I've ran the AEM fic on 3 "420a"-based setups (2 neons and 1 avenger) and have had good results. the 1910 will throw a CEL for injector circuit (no injector resistance seen at the ecu), but IIRC the 1913 has the circuit to load the ecu as if injectors were present. Very good piggyback system imo (of course a full standalone is always recommended)
I havent messed with portfueler however, so I cant give you a comparison. Download the AEM FIC software off AEM's website and take a look at its interface. To view datalogs, you will need to download the AEM pro software package in order to get AEMlog, which you use to view the FIC's logs.

Nice, this might be better for me since it also allows for timing adjustment... And since it can completely control fuel, I could run e85 as well... hmmm

BoostforBreakfast · Jan 23, 2015

yea. it modifies the cam and crank signal to retard timing. You can modify the MAP offset map as if it was an SAFC in order to advance timing as well as clamp the Map. It has direct injector control as well as aux input for a wideband. It also has 2 other aux inputs that can offset/modified (such as o2's) to adjust fuel trim or whatever u need. Also has aux output for nitrous/water/meth, etc.

powellds2 · Jan 24, 2015

BoostforBreakfast said:
yea. it modifies the cam and crank signal to retard timing. You can modify the MAP offset map as if it was an SAFC in order to advance timing as well as clamp the Map. It has direct injector control as well as aux input for a wideband. It also has 2 other aux inputs that can offset/modified (such as o2's) to adjust fuel trim or whatever u need. Also has aux output for nitrous/water/meth, etc.

Yeah, been reading about it, looks pretty legit. I also saw that someone had even made an auto tune for it on youtube. It's not available to anyone afaik, but still kind of cool.

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420A Crower stage 2 cam idle fix (Hahn Portfueler setup)

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