My first build. Suggestions ?

1g-4g63t · Oct 7, 2014

Hi, thanks in advance for any input, and almost please excuse any noobness I might display. This is my first car build. And I am about to make some life changing financial decisions in the process of upgrading my car, so I thought I would reference the experts first

I purchased my 1990 eagle talon tsi a few years ago, and drove it a year before it began overheating. I was not familiar with my car which had been previously modded, so I decided to tear it down.
Upon inspection, I quickly noticed wholes in the bottom of my rad.

Since then I've continued tearing it down to
1. figure out if the engine has been rebuilt with new internals
2. Upgrade my car to reach approx 400 whp while being my daily driver

Current Mods:
Fuel:
Aem fuel rail with 750cc injectors (blue top I believe)
After market Air fuel pressure regulator
255 lph walbro fuel pump

Tuning:
safc 2
wideband 02
Greddy Boost controller
Boost guage
Greddy knockoff bov

Turbo:
I believe it's a small 16g evo 3 (pick below)
It was running pretty strong at 16 psi, i set it to 21 once to race a 300zx (he was quick..)
Punishment racing fmic and ic piping

Intake:
K&N
stock im

Exhaust: 3 inch straight pipe
02 dump

Gates Timing belt and new tensioners
(Here`s a view of my engine bay before I pulled it)

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(This is the turbo I'm running)

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Turns out my 6 bolt is bone stock. I bought a spare head on suspicion that mine might be warped or cracked from over heating. It doesn't look like it to me but I haven't verified with a machine shop yet.

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I wound up with some other parts to help me reach my goals:

(Bc Cams- 272 intake 272 exhaust)

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( Findanza Cam gears- and some kiggley racing beehive springs /retainers)

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I also am in the process of getting an eprom ecu and vlink3, as well as some evo 8 exhaust valves and evo 8 rockers. Also the Kiggly HLA oil pressure regulator. And potentially a fluidampr harmonic balancer.
I think my current turbo will just fine until I learn how to turn and can afford to drop some more cash on possibly a 20g..

I know a lot of guys here are ambitious enough to rebuild a motor in their garage, but I'm worried about getting over my head. I would really like to have the head port/ polished while it's out. Would it be worth it for me to have a machine shop look over the bottom end? Do I need forged internals? I've heard that evo oil squirters are important for reducing knock under heavy engine load.
I've still got lots of parts to purchase..

92AWDHX40 · Oct 7, 2014

All the mods you have sound good for your goal, just get a good tune and your good.

FWD_CHAZZ · Nov 13, 2014

Awesome set up
Planned on doing a similar build with mine
Good luck keep posting and updating the build

XFinisher · Nov 13, 2014

Correct me if I am wrong but the 16g EVO 3 I thought was only good to like 320-340 whp? Something to consider im a newbie when it comes to DSM's as well :hellyeah:

.

oren hughbanks · Nov 13, 2014

Nice build so far! I'm pretty close to the same setup, but with a 20g.

I was in the same situation, picked up my 1g and later had bad over heating issues, which forced me to do a total rebuild. I figured with 160k on the clock. It was due. I built my car and that was my first engine build ever. Add in about 5 thousand hours of research and reading I managed. But I have the tools and garage space to do it so that helped

There's plenty of guys in the dsm world that have all made over 400hp on a stock 6 bolt. Luckily enough for us we already have forged rods and crank. Would I go for a full overhaul with forged pistons? Definitely. Better to do it right the first time, then end up spending the money to have that head rebuilt, then end upruining both the head and block. It all depends on your budget.

Just remember 400hp is double what these cars came with from the factory. the transmission, driveline, rear end, axles, are not designed to handle that. You Will need a good clutch to hold that kind of power.

400hp is quite a stretch on a 16g turbo, so be ready to upgrade that. I run a 20g, and it's a great street turbo. You lose a little on the bottom end, but it has great mid range power.

Evo 8 oil squirters won't help with anything related to knock. Your factory oil squirters should be just fine. All they do is aid in heat transfer with your pistons. Going to dsm link is going to be essential for so many things. that should be a main priority.

Search the classifieds, study up on your vfaq reading, and have fun! This is a great community of people.

1g-4g63t · Nov 14, 2014

Hey thanks for the awesome input guys. I just got my dsm link setup, full v3/ eprom, gm maf ect. at a good deal thanks to @dj1263 . Also I have a fresh cylinder head on the way in the mail. It's coming assembled with manley stainless steel valves and bc sing springs. My research has led me to think my Kiggly beehives springs are still going to be more beneficial to me.. Even though my bc 272s are a mild cam, they sound more reliable and have higher rpm potential. I'll probably end up ordering a set of evo 8 rocker arms from mitsu, and 3g lifters or something if I can find a good deal.
I've got my eyes on a fluidampr crank pulley locally, and my local pick'n'pull has a 1g with the 4 bolt rear axles and a lsd.
It's all coming together. @oren hughbanks, I'll probably shop around this winter for a built 6 bolt. Snow just fell here in Alberta, Canada. I've got a long winter to save up.

oren hughbanks · Nov 15, 2014

Snow is still a ways off for us here in AZ, I'm looking forward to trying out my talons AWD in the powder , good luck with the build bro!

djc1827 · Nov 16, 2014

I would run e85 on that 16g much better than a 20g on pump gas

1g-4g63t · Nov 16, 2014

Unfortunately e85 isn't available to me. I'm going to have to do some research before I decide on a turbo. (Open to suggestions). It looks like my build is in the direction of a high rev'er. Spool time response is going to have a big effect on my decision I think. I thought my 16g would be capable of higher numbers.. It's going to be a street car also

kiggly · Nov 16, 2014

Glad to hear you're looking at our springs, they will work great in your application. FP has some turbos that are great performers for both spoolup and top end power potential. To have something that revs though, you should look at different intake manifold options. The stock intake manifold really falls off up top compared to a lot of other options. If you're looking for 8-9k power, having a turbo that spools at <3500rpm also starts becoming less important and pushes you into something more like a Kelford 272 or 280 range cam. If you're looking for less than 7000rpm usage, the smaller cams work decent to max out a turbo. If you're going to run a turbo less than maxed out though, bigger cams will even help in this lower rpm range.

Good luck with your project,
Kevin

HallerDSM · Nov 17, 2014

Yeah, the FP green will get you too 400 no doubt. Holset and Garrett have a few options as well. Look around for what fits your build budget best, it's hard to say what turbo will do best for a specific application. But with your supporting mods and a good tune there are quite a few that will get you close to, or over 400.

Chumpaumpalumpa · Nov 17, 2014

1g-4g63t said:
Unfortunately e85 isn't available to me. I'm going to have to do some research before I decide on a turbo. (Open to suggestions). It looks like my build is in the direction of a high rev'er. Spool time response is going to have a big effect on my decision I think. I thought my 16g would be capable of higher numbers.. It's going to be a street car also

your great as long as you have access to 93 octane..... i have a 20g and it has great street manners, 10psi by 3000 rpm and 20psi by 3700. this turbo with 272 cams a lightened flywheel and 2600 act pressure plate with sprung disk will get you to your goal. tune this on 93 with 25-27 psi n your at your goal. as long as you don't beat on the thing everytime you get in it youll be fine on stock trans etc for a while.
heres a link i found helpful when looking for a clutch setup.

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/pages/dsm-clutch-selection

you want option 3 its perfect for you i had the EXACT same car as you wen i started and i promise you will not regret that. its been proven over and over again to be one of the best setups out there for that power range on a street or dd dsm. i dd mine n love it, its not even too bad in traffic on the freeway.[DOUBLEPOST=1416287201][/DOUBLEPOST]

XFinisher said:
Correct me if I am wrong but the 16g EVO 3 I thought was only good to like 320-340 whp? Something to consider im a newbie when it comes to DSM's as well.

depends on fuel.... you could go 400whp fairly easily on e85 with supporting mods.

XFinisher · Nov 20, 2014

Chumpaumpalumpa said:
your great as long as you have access to 93 octane..... i have a 20g and it has great street manners, 10psi by 3000 rpm and 20psi by 3700. this turbo with 272 cams a lightened flywheel and 2600 act pressure plate with sprung disk will get you to your goal. tune this on 93 with 25-27 psi n your at your goal. as long as you don't beat on the thing everytime you get in it youll be fine on stock trans etc for a while.
heres a link i found helpful when looking for a clutch setup.

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/pages/dsm-clutch-selection

you want option 3 its perfect for you i had the EXACT same car as you wen i started and i promise you will not regret that. its been proven over and over again to be one of the best setups out there for that power range on a street or dd dsm. i dd mine n love it, its not even too bad in traffic on the freeway.[DOUBLEPOST=1416287201][/DOUBLEPOST]
depends on fuel.... you could go 400whp fairly easily on e85 with supporting mods.

Hmm that's impressive for that turbo, to bad my car has a cheap eBay 16g.. Oh well payed $1200 for the car so I cant complain!

Andrew_99_GST · Nov 20, 2014

You may want to consider speed density at some point in time.

1g-4g63t · Nov 25, 2014

kiggly said:
Glad to hear you're looking at our springs, they will work great in your application. FP has some turbos that are great performers for both spoolup and top end power potential. To have something that revs though, you should look at different intake manifold options. The stock intake manifold really falls off up top compared to a lot of other options. If you're looking for 8-9k power, having a turbo that spools at <3500rpm also starts becoming less important and pushes you into something more like a Kelford 272 or 280 range cam. If you're looking for less than 7000rpm usage, the smaller cams work decent to max out a turbo. If you're going to run a turbo less than maxed out though, bigger cams will even help in this lower rpm range.

Good luck with your project,
Kevin

Thanks for the tips! I'm trying to see if I've processed this right..
An aftermarket intake manifold, head porting, and larger camshafts will shift my powerband up. This will also increase spool time because it reduces exhaust velocity at lower rpm. (Less restriction). A large turbo will be able to take full advantage of the peak power near the top of the rpm range.
I'm confused about the large turbo and bigger cams helping out in the lower rpm range. To me it would make sense that a big turbo and a set of 280's would only shift the powerband UP more.
I can see a turbo not being maxed out creating less heat.. ? :aha:

got my cylinder head in the mail today. woo-hoo! pics soon

1g-4g63t · Aug 16, 2015

Ok guys, this car is getting there!!
Here's my new cylinder head, cleaned up with manley ss valves, gsc seals and oil port mod. Now i have to install my evo 8 rocker arms, kiggly springs, and 272 cams

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I have also managed to get my hands on a fluidamper harmonic balancer, an act 2100 kit, and eprom ecu with vlink 3

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As for my bottom end, well I took it to a reputable shop in town, told them I want to run high boost and high rpm, and they are rebuilding it with oversized weiscos with 8.5 compression, new bearings and arp bolts.
Very expensive!! However I should be able to reach my goals and have piece of my mind that the bottom end is fresh and ready for it.

As for my oil pump and front case, I'm in the market for something with straight cut gears, Are acl making those yet or is it still all helical? Can I use a aftermarket case with my oem straight cuts? (My car is a 1990)
Also I really wanted the Kiggly HLA to keep my oil in the pan at high rpm.. What do you guys think?
Need this thing running before snowfall!

kiggly · Aug 20, 2015

1g-4g63t said:
Ok guys, this car is getting there!!
Here's my new cylinder head, cleaned up with manley ss valves, gsc seals and oil port mod. Now i have to install my evo 8 rocker arms, kiggly springs, and 272 cams

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I have also managed to get my hands on a fluidamper harmonic balancer, an act 2100 kit, and eprom ecu with vlink 3

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

As for my bottom end, well I took it to a reputable shop in town, told them I want to run high boost and high rpm, and they are rebuilding it with oversized weiscos with 8.5 compression, new bearings and arp bolts.
Very expensive!! However I should be able to reach my goals and have piece of my mind that the bottom end is fresh and ready for it.

As for my oil pump and front case, I'm in the market for something with straight cut gears, Are acl making those yet or is it still all helical? Can I use a aftermarket case with my oem straight cuts? (My car is a 1990)
Also I really wanted the Kiggly HLA to keep my oil in the pan at high rpm.. What do you guys think?
Need this thing running before snowfall!

Thanks for making us part of your build

lasershark · Aug 20, 2015

I saw you were still undecided about a turbo. Then I remembered reading this a day or two ago.

JusMX141 said:
Billet TD06SL2 20G is where it's at. I've had customers provide accurate airflow logs in the 50-52 lb/min range with enough steam on top to trap 134mph. Outspools the "latest" 68HTA, and can be built new for less money. Win/win/win/win. Win.

The thread this is from
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/which-turbo-fp-hta68-or-20g.496301/#post-153538415
If you need turbo advice Justin is your guy, if you need a turbo, still your guy (if you didn't know) :thumb:

Nicholas Andrus · Aug 22, 2015

lasershark said:
I saw you were still undecided about a turbo. Then I remembered reading this a day or two ago.

The thread this is from
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/which-turbo-fp-hta68-or-20g.496301/#post-153538415
If you need turbo advice Justin is your guy, if you need a turbo, still your guy (if you didn't know)

100% on justin. Hes fantastic and has alot of knowledge. Tell him youre goals and he can definitely point you in the right direction.

darknezz7 · Aug 22, 2015

I saw that thread too and thats what we are going to get in a few months the Billet TD06SL2 20G from Justin. No more junk...

Maddashimports-Matt · Aug 22, 2015

I wouldn't even worry about a port job with the 1g head, I think gasket matching, a good 3 angle valve job, smoothing out the factory casting flaws, blending the bowls, and polishing are going to be about the most that you'd need. Over porting will do more harm then good. Plus with a 400hp goal it will flow more then enough stock, even 600hp. Plenty of spock head's on 10 second cars.

Sound's like an awesome build tho can't wait to see some numbers.

1g-4g63t · Sep 15, 2015

Update! My engine is back from the shop, and all the machine work is done!

As I've been waiting around I went a little crazy with some rattle cans. What do you guys think? I didn't do as good a job as some of the hardcores, but I think it turned out ok.

So I've deleted my AC, cruise control, egr, charcoal canister. I'll do the solenoid delete on the fire wall in the future.

1g-4g63t · Sep 15, 2015

Hmm, apparently the server is having trouble uploading some of the "money shots".

I'm in the process of moving, so engine assembly is kind of being delayed. So - for you engine builders- during my assembly I need to
1. Check my bearing clearances after the crank is torqued using plastiguage, as a final precaution. (I don't understand why the shop wouldn't have done this, I guess it is just for my piece of mind?)
2. Check my piston ring end gap. Since I'm using wiscoe's, I believe the compression ring gap should be roughly .016- .020ish...?
3. Check my piston to valve clearance. Which means I should get a pair of solid lifters..

I haven't learned how to check piston to wall clearance. Since my blocked was honed, and the shop ordered my pistons for me, I don't feel like this is a necessary check..

Am I missing anything?? Suggestions? Knowledge?

Thanks!

1g-4g63t · Feb 14, 2016

Woo-hoo! The car is running. I haven't been able to take it too far yet without fixing up fuel leaks and idling issues.
For anyone wondering about the new ACL orbit oil pump/ front case assemblies, i went with that option and the oil pressure is looking nice. I'm still using the stock straight cut gears in the new pump also.
I also deleted the balance shafts, and with prothane motor mounts all around I'm not noticing excessive engine vibrations from inside the vehicle.

1g-4g63t · Feb 14, 2016

Some shiny stuff:

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