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1998 gsx 400-500whp

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Freemanke

Probationary Member
4
0
Sep 18, 2014
Port Orchard, Washington
Hey all,
So...i picked something up this past week. Kinda got it by accident. You see, I USED to drive a 1986 silverado monster truck (6-8mpg) and i was getting sick of it. Well, it sat on craigslist for about 6 months. Nothing. Lucky me though, the guy that sold it too me really wanted it back so he put his car on craigslist. What car did he put on craiglist?... a 1998 gsx. Not have a clue about the car i figure, whatever, at least it'll get better gas mileage. So we traded. Then i took the car for a drive. All i have to say is Whoa! Even bone stock at about 180hp at the wheels this thing is an absolute blast to drive. A whole new world of underground car enthusiasm has been opened up to me and im soaking it all up. Ive stayed glued to the message boards for about 4 days now and i have a pretty good idea what im going for. Dont get me wrong, im not new to the wrench(owned a 05 rc ram and did a viper swap). Just new to the tune. I know rwhp isnt even comparable to awhp. Either way heres what i want. RELIABLE 93oct 400-500awhp/cold AC/clean stock interior(black and grey what what?!?) Ive already accepted the fact that i'll need a stroker(prolly from JAM) reworked heads, 4 bolt diff, and beefed up trans. My noob question to everyone is: What else can i buy to stock pile up that will work with my goals? I plan to drop the motor/trans once my bike gets sold. 2011 all black z1000. Things got more torque than a vrod. But nevermind that. I wanna start slowly massing parts. Cant wait to bust open the old toolbox. I look forward to the progress. And lastly, it feels really good to tell everyone that my mitsubishi eclipse has more american parts in it than their 5.0l mustank.
 
It hilarious. A import/american car(I just call it a hybrid)is more american than most cars built nowadays. Lol
 
Your goal of 400-500 whp is doable on the 2.0, no need to stroke , albeit a little harder but doable. A good selection of quality parts coupled with a good tuning tool, like ecmlink and a knowledgeable tuner should get you to your goals. Just a tidbit of fyi, the term 4-bolt is normally referred to the first gens as the rear axles were bolted to the cups with either 3 or 4 bolts, 2nd gen rear axles are splined.
 
You will need bigger turbo, ecmlink, fuel supply, ect.. Also you need to worry about your setup A/C with a FMIC and the Radiator (air flow).
 
What's up dude, this is Tyler with the seats! Read the little thread brief that you get when you hover the mouse over a title and thought the story sounded familiar LOL. You definitely scored, that is a nice clean platform to play with and getting the black/grey interior takes most of us a long time and more money than it should.

Anyways, I know we kinda BS'd already, but if you want to start buying parts there are three awesome turbo options in the classifieds right now being sold by the best rebuilder on here, his name is Justin and does a great job. I would highly suggest talking to him about the FP Green he has for $650, it will do an easy 400whp and if you push it on race gas or E85 since you have base access out there, you can hit the 500hp mark! If you really see yourself taking the car into the 10s then the Holset HX40 would be better but finding a bolt on BEP (bullseye power) housing isn't easy. You'd also have to get diff oil lines and invest in an external wastegate setup but that's all part of the path to big power anyways.

Your best bet from an enjoyment and daily reliability standpoint on the current motor is an EVO3 16g, some 650cc injectors, a 255lph fuel pump & regulator, a decent mandrel bent 3" turbo back exhaust, and dsmlink. With those and a few small supporting mods you'll be just shy of 400hp that you can drive every day without failures on your 7 bolt. Pass that point and things like the trans, bottom end, fuel system, etc start to fall short and need significant investment. If you want to do a stroker, I have a 100mm 6 bolt crank I'll be selling but honestly you should just max out a 16g and see what you think, it's enough to embarrass the V8 crowd and will keep you smiling for at least another year or so while you build up the next motor!

Hit me up if you need any help we'll make that thing a rocket!
 
400whp is relatively easy in this platform. You need to get a game plan together on what you really want to do, what your budget is, what parts you already have ect.. I would STRONGLY suggest doing your research before purchasing anything, and look at what others are using that's working for them. I would suggest building the car stronger than anticipated which leaves room for upgrades later. You will want more power. Be careful what you read and take advice from people that are well known.
 
Here's a rough list of what my friend's eclipse had on it before he sold it. It ran mid 11's on street tires and was estimated around 540awhp. The powerband was from 4000rpm to 8000rpm and it pulled very hard. Never ran into anybody faster on the street, even some high horsepower vettes and slick-tire'd muscle cars that couldnt put their power down (without a big burnout or prepared surface).

If you're really serious about this it's going to cost you $10k-$15k. Don't forget brakes and suspension as well

2.4L G4CS six bolt motor
OEM 100mm Mitsubishi crank
Manley h-beam rods
Wiseco 8.8:1 "stroker" pistons
Clevite main and rod bearings
ported head
silicon nitrided valves
Manley springs and titanium retainers
5 angle valve job
Cometic 85.5mm MLS head gasket
Brian Crower 280 cams
V3 lifters
ARP head studs
Fluidampr crank pulley (he went through 3 OEM ones in a couple months, never had a problem after the fluidampr)

DSMLink v3 w/ GM MAF cable
PLXM300 Wideband
APEX'i turbo timer and Prosport boost/oil pressure gauges

Borg Warner S258 ETT 62lb/min turbo w/ internal wastegate
Forced Performance 4'' intake pipe with K&N filter
VR Speed Factory front mount intercooler
Tial 50mm Blow off valve
3'' GM MAF

Forced Performance Exhaust Manifold, Jet Hot Coated
Jet Hot Coated Turbine Housing
EVOIII Ported and Jet Hot Coated Exhaust Housing
EVOIII Wrapped Road///Race Engineering 3” SS Downpipe
Buschur Racing 3” SS Cat Back & muffler

Single Walbro 255 ( I have no idea how he got away with just that, but it was enough)
FIC 1600cc injectors
SS Braided lines from tank to rail
Aeromotive Adj Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Gauge
Aeromotive changeable filters 40 micron elements
 
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That is an awesome build ^ but way more than is necessary. A single 255lph and 850-1000cc injectors will support 600hp on pump and maybe with a little meth inj, and although he does have base access to one of the five E85 stations in our ENTIRE STATE (sorry I'm bitter I don't get to use the corn juice!), I think his goals are more modest than the need to decimate all. The last thing I would suggest to anyone is to build an all out race car for their first DSM, you want to learn the platform slowly and make sure you are comfortable with it and have a good feel for each part because when you start blasting 11 second passes, you have to be able to catch the little things before they get out of hand and you'll only feel them if you gradually build up to it. While stout and capable, they can be finicky and temperamental and going huge right off the bat like that is a good way to end up broke and stuck on the side of the road.

As a daily driver, the platform as a whole starts to really get pushed after about 450whp especially on the 2g 7 bolt and weaker trans. Stroker motors don't last nearly as long on the street since they wear the cylinders and pistons quicker and in addition to not being able to pass emissions (WA liberal hippies!!) without some investment or cheating, you're going to sacrifice some creature comforts like A/C, worse vibrations/noise, and will assuredly attract more attention than you may want. If reliability is still a priority since it seems like this is still going to be your daily/possibly only car when you sell your motorcycle, I would try to stay below the 500whp mark and keep the displacement down.

But if you do want to be the fastest around and have an alternative vehicle for when the DSM breaks and to just in general keep the mileage down on the build, by all means do it up! Without too big of an investment, these can be insanely fast cars. Unless you want to swap in an auto however, you are going to be transmission limited to roughly 550whp, after that you're looking at $3k/yr to have built transmissions swapped in every time you strip 3rd or 4th gear. My vote is still a basic Green/50 Trim/20g car with 1000cc injectors, a Walbro 255 rewired w/AFPR, Link V3, an exhaust, a Cyclone intake and FMIC for breathing, some nice springs and retainers, 272's, a mildly built trans, and some decent suspension/breaks. You can use the fresh motor you already paid for in the purchase of the car and it will run happily for years like this and still beat 95% of the cars on the road!
 
My vote is still a basic Green/50 Trim/20g car with 1000cc injectors, a Walbro 255 rewired w/AFPR, Link V3, an exhaust, a Cyclone intake and FMIC for breathing, some nice springs and retainers, 272's, a mildly built trans, and some decent suspension/breaks. You can use the fresh motor you already paid for in the purchase of the car and it will run happily for years like this and still beat 95% of the cars on the road!

Pretty much agree. A specimen in excellent condition and a pro tune can handle about ~500hp pretty reliably. The stock trans will need to be babied or built. Green/20g is NOT going to hit 400hp+ on 93 octane (might barely hit 400 if lucky or GOD=tuner). Seriously consider E85. Thats worth a great chunk of power. Also think bigger than a green. I have similar goals on E85 and chose a FP RED HTA76. Similar minded people have had high sentiments about the HX40 and BWs256, and I would be willing to do it all over again with either of those. When aiming for power at 400+ you WILL get lag. It will be a much different monster than the t25 you are zipping around town in.
 
Pretty much agree. A specimen in excellent condition and a pro tune can handle about ~500hp pretty reliably. The stock trans will need to be babied or built. Green/20g is NOT going to hit 400hp+ on 93 octane (might barely hit 400 if lucky or GOD=tuner). Seriously consider E85. Thats worth a great chunk of power. Also think bigger than a green. I have similar goals on E85 and chose a FP RED HTA76. Similar minded people have had high sentiments about the HX40 and BWs256, and I would be willing to do it all over again with either of those. When aiming for power at 400+ you WILL get lag. It will be a much different monster than the t25 you are zipping around town in.

Just because people don't always make great power on the 50trim compressor doesn't mean it can't or won't, people get bigger turbos too soon instead of maximizing what they have quite regularly. They were known as the kings of pump gas for a long time before the Holsets came around and plenty of guys have made more than 400whp on pump with them. They bolt on, flow 50lbs/min, and are good at converting the watered down knock prone swill from the pump into power without throwing a fit like some of the GT turbos. The guys who push them on E85 make over 500whp so I don't know why one would assume they can't make a solid 420-450 on 93!

Going with those 60lb/min snails will provide some headroom which can be great if the goals may change in the future, but they will require a built motor, more fuel, more driveline, etc and come with significant lag. You're basically committing to a full performance build to support a 60-1 or bigger! I know what you mean when you say anything over 400hp comes with lag, but the difference is how noticeable it is, all turbos have lag but some you could care less cause you're never under that part of the powerband. Having 300hp at 4k with a fully spooled 50trim that made positive boost at 2.5k is a lot more fun on the street than 150-200hp with a big turbo at that same rpm and it didn't make positive boost till after 3k. Even if it does peak above 550hp after 5.5k, the straight line speed is obviously better but for a fun road car which is what I got the impression this is going to stay, I wouldn't want any more delay then a 30R sized turbo provides. I've had several friend's already regret going as big as they did cause its just a drag car now and they'll get stomped light to light or in the twisties. Really depends on driving style and priorities.

The lag issue all comes down to personal tolerance so that's just my opinion, but again remember he's on a stock rebuilt 7 bolt so if he can meet his goals on that it will be much cheaper than having to do a whole motor now as well. 500whp is more than a lot of people feel is safe on them but it can be done. All this is gonna come down to whether or not he wants to build a motor and trans right away in addition to buying all the performance parts too ...
 
Just ordered all new belts plugs and wires. As for the shelf, I ordered the walboro 255. Searching for 1000cc injectors now. Oh man. Here goes nothing. I gotta go with Fullthrottle on this. I sure do love my rpms so I think I'll stick with the forged 2.0l and work the heads. Nothing more terrifying than 10000rpms screaming past you when your cruisin at 60 with the windows down.
 
1) Just because people don't always make great power on the 50trim compressor doesn't mean it can't or won't.

2) but for a fun road car which is what I got the impression this is going to stay, I wouldn't want any more delay then a 30R sized turbo provides.

1) I wholeheartedly disagree.

Here's support for my claim. http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/76hta-dyno-93-vs-ww-fluid-vs-meth.452018/ I'll let the reader decide if an FP endorsement and pro tuner suffices to legitimize my claim. BTW this is a slightly bigger turbo than any 20g or regular FP green 73HTA which they currently sell.

I will add that I called FP, and explicitly told them my goals are:
400hp minimum on pump gas
500hp+ would be cool to have on E85, but I want upper 400s on E85 at the minimum.

Their response: "Go RED." Straight from the horse's mouth.

2) Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumb:

Don't worry about 400-500hp. Its just a number. I do agree that everyone should DEFINITELY try the 20g/green BEFORE going any bigger. I just don't agree that they are upper 400hp turbos on their own merit. It irks me when people go off spouting otherwise getting people's hopes up all high for no good reason.

For reference I was a little offset by the 750 additional lag the RED gave, but the power up top is well worth it, and I ONLY street drive my car.
 
1) I wholeheartedly disagree.

Here's support for my claim. http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/76hta-dyno-93-vs-ww-fluid-vs-meth.452018/ I'll let the reader decide if an FP endorsement and pro tuner suffices to legitimize my claim. BTW this is a slightly bigger turbo than any 20g or regular FP green 73HTA which they currently sell.

I will add that I called FP, and explicitly told them my goals are:
400hp minimum on pump gas
500hp+ would be cool to have on E85, but I want upper 400s on E85 at the minimum.

Their response: "Go RED." Straight from the horse's mouth.

Absolutely if someone wants to achieve a solid 500whp and mention pump gas to FP they're going to suggest something with head room above the goals to make sure you're happy and make your life easier getting to your goal. I will 100% agree if an individuals goal was high 400s on pump that the 50trim/green would not be the best choice and the Red, 3065, 35r, and HX40s come into play. When I hear a goal of 400-500whp I feel like that means they want to daily drive around the bottom and if they really get the urge to go to the track, they'll throw some race gas in and crank the boost.

Here are a few threads that illustrate the power of the 50T compressor. These people have efficient setups and good tuning which gives the turbo the ability to maximize power. A stock cam isn't going to cut it here, but no 450hp car should be on stock cams still LOL.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/494whp-on-a-50-trim-and-hks-272-vs-comp-100-comparo.357861/

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...n-tuning-evo-8-50trim-93-octane-vs-e85-2.html

There is actually a direct dyno comparison to a Red on E85 in that Evo post. Its not a 9 with MIVEC so I consider it a fair comparison since I know not everyone has dsmlink forum access I didn't want to post the guys making over 500whp if no one could read the threads. Point being, a bigger turbo will be more pump gas friendly and comes with more lag. For a daily driver that doesn't need to be rocketship fast all the time, guys can get away with these faster spooling turbos that keep street manners but can still throw down on the track and run basement 11s and high 10s. Having not personally been in a Red powered car and only the bigger 35r/hx40s, I can't argue with you that your car was still streetable because that's your opinion from direct experience. I just know that I personally don't like lag one bit and would have hated to own the big turbo cars I've been in for daily drivers that's all...

But God damn are they fun in a straight line on the highway next to bikes, M3s, V8s, and the rest of the automotive community that has to think long and hard about how that little 4cyl just blew their doors off LOL!
 
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I think if you want a nice fun street car get the green. If you want 400+ daily get the red or something else a step up from the green. I have the hta red, and it reliably makes over 400 awhp on 93 and just made 501 saturday on 110. I know people make large numbers on greens etc. but if you look at all the people with them they are a small percentage of it. I also dont fully agree with the idea that its as easy as everybody thinks to make 400+ reliably with these cars. All that being said the red is a good street turbo to me, but its rare that i get to use it to its full potential on the road.
 
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