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Leak down results:

Cylinders 1,3, and 4 intake valves are either cut wrong or the height it wrong. HUGE leaks. So f***ing depressed right now. Same cams as i had, Crower 272s. Cant trust anyone. I guess i need to learn to be a machinist, buy all the equipment and then just MAYBE I can get work done properly.
I'm pulling the cams tomorrow i guess. Idk though. This is what I paid over 1200 for them to do, not me.
 
Defiantly do a leakdown test with the cams removed. They should of vacuum tested the valves before it was ever sent to you.
 
Done deal. I couldnt wait. I removed the intake came and tested. FAIL. Exact same amount of air just f ing pouring through the intake ports. I sent an email to SIM. I'm so deep financially in this and have really loved these cars since i was 15(18 years ago) and its hard to take these beatings. I understand if its "user error" and if the problems ive been through were caused from a bad tune or me beating on it or anything else but ive been bit by bad machining FOUR times now. 2 required full tear downs. I;m just in shock man, i totally expected it to be just normal leakage past the rings and zero from exh or int ports. Wow.

Bryan, do you think its possible they didnt set the valve height or did they simply do bad machining on 3 out of 4 seats?
Why didnt they do a vac test? What machine shop does a head job and doesn't make sure it holds vac with the cams installed? They did have my cams and everything, btw.
 
If the valve height was wrong than it would seal with the cams out. I have seen my fair share of bad valve jobs on these heads. Any good shop should vacuum test.
 
Man I'm so sorry for everything that's going on, it truly isn't right for sure.

I worked in a machine shop for a while and I can tell you that it is very easy and doesn't take that much time at all to test vac. I would test vac when receiving the head before tear down, after grinding seats and valves, and after putting everything back together with cams.

They could've got a good reading without cams and slapped it back together. Even they should know it can change after putting everything together, I don't know why this is happening to you.

I would definitely be calling everyday to get to the bottom of it. Ask them there process of building the head, what machines they use, how they check for optimum seal and vac. All this is crucial. Even the media left on it is a huge no no, can totally kill an entire engine.

I hope this gets resolved for you bro I truly will pray for you.

God bless,

Anthony B
 
Thanks for the kind words 95dsmaniac, much appreciated at a time like this.
Bryan, so that pretty much rules it out: Just terrible machine work.
I sent an email, then one more letting them know that i did remove the intake cam to re test and the results were the same.

I hope they do the right thing and give it yet another shot. This is really taking its toll, its crazy! I have L19s so i think they will be ok to re use, but i dont think i should have to pay for another MLS. I dont know how comfortable i should be reusing that HG. I mean, once it's torqued that's it right? I'm not saying its a guaranteed failure but I think its fair that they replace the HG. After all, i would never have even put the head on had i known it was a 40lb paperweight! LOL, man oh man oh man..... this. is. insane.

And as you can see in the posts i have been trying to be as calm and forgiving as possible. I know mistakes happen. If they dont repair this.... well, that wouldnt be good for their business i'm sure. It's best to do the job properly, even if it does take THREE times. People on here will remember if I ended up with a good working head or got stiffed out of months of time and $1200(plus a HG). Those reviews don't fade from memory, they gain momentum if anything.
I think that SIM is a good company, however, whoever they are using for their machine work must be corrected. I'm surprised they still use them, this may change that, who knows
 
I wouldn't use the hg again, why take a chance there especially if its been torqued already. Well hope things work out man Ive never had a problem like that but everything else, more than once so I been there, ive had more problems with these things but I always seem to hang in in there and learn if I want to stick with this platform and I plan to for at least 20 more years.
 
I wouldn't use the hg again, why take a chance there especially if its been torqued already. Well hope things work out man Ive never had a problem like that but everything else, more than once so I been there, ive had more problems with these things but I always seem to hang in in there and learn if I want to stick with this platform and I plan to for at least 20 more years.

I hear ya, I dont want to quit and if i DO quit i want it to be because I'M the one f ing up! Not the machinist. You can only control so many things and unfortunately this is beyond my skill set: I simply dont have the knowledge or a full blown machine shop at my disposal. There are things that we have to rely on other professionals for and when that time comes you expect the job be done correctly. I will update this when i speak with Alan or Austin on Monday. Im gonna go ahead and remove the head tomorrow, no sense in having it on there, its gotta be fixed.

Y'all think im ok with reusing the L19s right? I went to 90 ft/lbs. Torqued only once. Whattya think?
 
Sorry to hear. I really thought it would be good this time. I would certainly ask for the cost of the gasket, at the bare minimum. Think of all the time and labor of yours is being wasted as well as the aggravation. Good luck.
 
Someone sends them this thread, I'd expect to see a brand new head devoid of original casting leftovers, mirror polished for aesthetics, lightened valve train via exotic metals, intake/exhaust ports cut exactly for xx powerband/airflow, free powdercoated VC and a freakin banana split.

If that was my shop, I'd treat it as an honor to be a supporting vendor and serve such a large community for the few specific DSM engines. It's 4 damn cylinders. 4 cylinders that have been around for 20+ years.

Reuse the bolts they're fine. You could reuse the headgasket, mainly because it hasn't been heat cycled. But at the same time you can't because 7 people will say you can't and just in case get another one. So forget I said anything.
 
Yea, i think they should and hopefully WILL replace the MLS. I would never reuse a HG, just my thing. It's such a tremendous amount of work if something goes wrong its just not worth it.
I am removing the L19s and packing them back in their little sleeves making sure they have a nice coat of grease on them for another month of storage while i wait on the 3rd attempt at properly machining a head..... LOL, this is just crazy. I still cant get over it. I'm a lot calmer today though. Gonna go play some golf.

And Nherron, yes, both of them are well aware of this thread. We have talked over the phone about it. I'm being as fair and patient as one could be and still say that SIM is good people just their machinist, they are clearly the problem.[DOUBLEPOST=1411334481][/DOUBLEPOST]Ok, Allen got back to me. Said to pressurize it with both cams out to 100psi and "pop" the valves with an extension. Anyone think this could work? I think arp recommends only torquing their studs twice before discarding so this would be the 2nd time. Then i'd have a compressed HG and questionable studs. Thats over 300 bucks btw. I already removed the head.
I rotated the intake cam countless times and tried at different pressures, the higher the pressure the worse the leak. I just think its a long shot. A new head should seat. JAM even stated that their brand new longblocks have no more than 5% leakdown before they've even been fired up. So im pretty sure that they should seat perfectly without being ran.

Let me know what you guys think. It's even more work and a gamble on 230 dollar studs that im leary to do.
 
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Excellent point about jams, I thought I've read that long as you measure and make sure they aren't stretched you can run them. What is the worst that would happen, push a little coolant LOL? I praise your patience, hang in there bro just think of tipping in to boost when ever you want. The look of anger and confusion on unsuspecting vette's, stang's, vw's ( I especially love crushing those)!:dsm::cry:
 
Excellent point about jams, I thought I've read that long as you measure and make sure they aren't stretched you can run them. What is the worst that would happen, push a little coolant LOL? I praise your patience, hang in there bro just think of tipping in to boost when ever you want. The look of anger and confusion on unsuspecting vette's, stang's, vw's ( I especially love crushing those)!:dsm::cry:

I hear ya, i love shocking v8s, its just funny. I have not heard back from Allen @ SIM yet after i told him how i tested and how i removed the intake cam. I told him it was packed and ready to go out the door.
I'm not one of those guys looking for a free lunch or trying to hurt an honest man's business. however, after all this don't you all think it would make SIM look just amazing if they sent me a new head and maybe polished the combustion chambers as a sign of gratitude? Wouldn't that erase all the "mishaps" that i've been through? I know if i were reading this and found that in the end the guy(me) got a perfect head and a little extra polishing on top for no charge for having to redo it 3 times. That would really shine in my book. But, im not counting on that. Though it really would make this look a LOT better for SIM if they went the extra mile.

Back on point: Allen claimed that his machinist pressure tested it. Now thats just what the machinist told HIM. If he pressure tested it, then there is no possible way it would have passed. Cause thats basically what im doing now! I dont think that "popping" the valve would fix all 3


Edit: and for what its worth, I probably wouldnt use them for machine work again but for parts, IF...IF they make everything right with this head, i see absolutely no reason not to spend money on injectors, exhaust, and many other parts with them in the future. They delivered on the parts i ordered and after sending me the wrong BC cam gears they straight up swapped them for free for a set of TruTimes. So they are good dudes. Their machinist is a mad scientist, not in a good way! hahaha, hes hurting their business. But thats for them to deal with.
 
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We all hoped this would have been fixed the second time around, but to still continuously have problems one after another definitely sucks. Having the head worked on twice is fine. I'm all about second chances, but a third time to fix two other previous mistakes? Not so likely.

However, as for the studs. You can reuse them as many times as you want usually until they have stretched, at that point should you discard them.
 
Well, my money is long gone so it's up to Allen and he seems like a very honest guy. I politely suggested that he have a sit down with whatever company he's using to machine things. That's just a prudent business decision and keeps things on the up and up. Basically, the way I understand it, they get the head and it goes out the door to a local machinist. He says "its level, its vac tested, its good to go". Allen trusts him/her and boxes it up and puts SIM's name on it and ships it out. That can work but if it doesnt(as in my unfortunate case) it doesnt say "joe's machine shop" on the box, it says SIM. And that bites Allen in the butt. Well, I hope to have good news to report tomorrow. Just hope for the best. Feels like I have a black cloud over my head this weekend, even shot a poor round of golf!! Ah well, life goes on
 
Well we are all feeling for you, hoping it comes in money but I would have to think about what else isn't in spec? Are the valve seats cut concentric to the guides? This can be an issue, as well as valve stem tip height going uncorrected. But I appreciate your honest experience and it helps the community make better informed decisions.
 
Read this
http://arp-bolts.mobi/p/tech.php?page=3

And this
http://arp-bolts.mobi/p/tech.php?page=6

And check the calibration of your torque wrench.

I've also been told by a machinist to tap the valve to get it to seat. I've also no proof yay or nay- of it being worth the try. My opinion however is its a bandaid. Crazy theory, concentrate the energy spent on bandaid fixes and put it in the original work. Pride comes to mind..

Its good Allen is being fair to you, though- not to himself by endorsing someone else's careless work. But I don't know the whole situation so I shouldnt say much.
 
Just talked to Allen. He called me literally 5 minutes ago. Just wanted to let y'all know that he has no problem taking the head back and replacing the MLS gasket that was crushed.
He is going to the machine shop when the head comes in so he can personally oversee whats going on. Like i said, he's an honest guy. They will record the pressure test before shipping it this time.
That gives me a ton of peace of mind. Just a case of extraordinarily bad luck, thats the only way i can explain it. I'm sure theyve sent out 30 heads in the last 3 months and mine was probably the only one with repeat problems. Anyway, its getting fixed, free of charge. I didn't ask for a "freebie" LOL, i just dont have that in me..... I'm happy if i get what i ordered, nothing more, nothing less.
Updates to come!
 
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