1G Manual ECU in an Auto DSM

pimpin81 · Mar 3, 2011

Okay I already know a few things:

The manual base fuel pressure is different from an auto, the injector sizes are also different. The fuel maps are also different. Also Ive read that the auto ecu pulls timing during shifts where as the manual ecu wont/doesnt, also Ive herd that the auto ecu compensates for load applied to the engine when shifting between park and drive in which the manual ecu doesn't..

I want to know everything before i attempt to do this ecu swap, I already have a 5 speed fuel rail with 450's an 5 speed eprom ecu. but I need more info before i subject my car to anything that's not stock.

Were can i find the information i need to feel comfortable about all the differences? And what else do i need to know ?

Ive seached and can't find all the info I need .

sniver · Mar 3, 2011

You got it all under control there. The timing pull, injectors,and fuel pressure are the only differences worth noting.

I had a manual ecu in my auto for a couple years, never had a single issue with it.

Not pulling timing while shifting technically will wear the trans out faster, but feels a bit firmer due to the elimination of power loss during gear shifts.

rail king · Mar 5, 2011

the auto's have their own ecu for the trans, which is maybe why its fine to run a 5spd ecu on an auto.

injectors you should matched to the ecu but you can calibrate it to what ever size when you tune your eprom. auto's and 5spd fpr's can be differnent psi. i found the fpr info easily on the forums

Absit · Mar 6, 2011

Uh, are we talking 1G or 2G here?

steve · Mar 6, 2011

Absit said:
Uh, are we talking 1G or 2G here?

Exactly. From his profile assuming 2G would make most of what he posted incorrect and on a 2G the ECUs are the same manual or automatic.

Makes more sense if he's talking about a 1G.

pimpin81 · Mar 6, 2011

Oh sorry I was referring to a 1991.

steve · Mar 6, 2011

On a 1G ECU there is no communications between the ECU and TCU for torque reduction. The Auto ECU does use pin 104 to know when the ATX is in gear vs not for idle speed control. I like to keep that logic when I do chips for 1G ATX cars.

pimpin81 · Mar 6, 2011

so that wouldnt be a prolbem ? would i have to swich some pins around ?

Prib9671 · Mar 6, 2011

I bought my 92 auto tsi about 5 or 6 years ago, but it was only about 6 monthes ago I decided to get ECMLink and thats when I found out I had a manual transmission ecu. I never had one issue with it. The guy I bought it from had put in 450's and a 14b. Sounds like you should be fine with what you are putting on it.
You said you have 450's on the manual fuel rail, do you also have the manual fpr?

sniver · Mar 6, 2011

The only other difference is the cams are smaller on a auto 1g by some ammount.

Sent from my Droid

pimpin81 · Mar 6, 2011

Prib9671 said:
I bought my 92 auto tsi about 5 or 6 years ago, but it was only about 6 monthes ago I decided to get ECMLink and thats when I found out I had a manual transmission ecu. I never had one issue with it. The guy I bought it from had put in 450's and a 14b. Sounds like you should be fine with what you are putting on it.
You said you have 450's on the manual fuel rail, do you also have the manual fpr?

i do have the manual fpr.

sniver · Mar 6, 2011

You'll be fine. Injectors,fpr,ecu and your set.

Sent from my Droid

Bud92gsx · Mar 15, 2011

I think I left the auto fpr in my car..Is that going to be a problem..And I know that I should already know this but I'm just double checking..

pimpin81 · Mar 15, 2011

Base/idle fuel pressure is different between an auto and a manual DSM. Dont know what if any adverse effects it might have tho. Nothing an adjustable fpr wont take care of tho.

DSMTyson · Mar 15, 2011

Bud92gsx said:
I think I left the auto fpr in my car. Is that going to be a problem..And I know that I should already know this but I'm just double checking.

Nope. If anything, it will just make your injectors seem bigger than they are, which in turn will lower your IDCs a little bit. But this is only work if you have a way to tune, and tell the ECU that the injectors are bigger (Thanks Steve).

I have a 5 speed Galant VR4 ECU and 5 speed 1G FPR (changing to AFPR) on my IPT automatic 1G. Everything works great on mine.

Bud92gsx · Mar 15, 2011

Well my buddy just junked a 5spd, he said he took the rail off..He said he's going to try to get it for me tomarrow, If not thursday..

I'm gonna try sneaking my car outta town for a quick ride..No insuarance so i gotta sneak around..

steve · Mar 15, 2011

DSMTyson said:
Nope. If anything, it will just mke your injectors seem bigger than they are, which in turn will lower your IDCs a little bit.

Not unless you tell the ECU that the injectors are bigger. Otherwise the end result is the car has exactly the same IDC's while in open loop but runs richer. The only time the ECU has any feedback is during closed loop, while idling and cruising, and then the ECU can correct and reduce the amount of fuel delivered.

Bud92gsx · Mar 15, 2011

Thank god Steve chimed in.
So, in all reality to make it work correctly I need the manual FPR? Is it going to run funny tomorrow when I start here up for the first time this year?

steve · Mar 15, 2011

The difference in injector size between 450cc injectors with a manual FPR and 450cc injectors with a automatic FPR is about 10% to the rich side. Not a huge difference and won't keep the car from running but something that should be addressed by tuning or switching FPR's. In comparison, using the 390cc injectors and auto FPR with a manual ECU has a much smaller fueling error of about 5% lean.

Bud92gsx · Mar 15, 2011

I Understand..Thanks for the info Steve..I'm going to try to get that taken care of in the next couple days..

MY1GDSM · Mar 16, 2011

pimpin81 said:
I already have a 5 speed fuel rail with 450's an 5 speed eprom ecu. but I need more info before i subject my car to anything that's not stock.

As said above you have everything you need... Just wondering aside from putting your an Eprom Ecu in and having a little more fuel (only about 25cc's) what is your reason? Is their a problem with the ECU in it or is it just not a Eprom? Just wondering... .

steve said:
using the 390cc injectors and auto FPR with a manual ECU has a much smaller fueling error of about 5% lean.

Also just a note, that is about the most that fuel trims will be able to adjust. So your trims would be maxed (once they adjusted) an have no room to adjust. But fueling would be somewhat close to inline as long as the car had no other issues.

Bud92gsx · Mar 16, 2011

Umm well I have the parts laying around, 450's, fpr, and 5spd ecu(eprom)..I thought the one in my car was an eprom turns out It's not..SO at least the one I have now is eprom..ANd also I'm not running the stock 13g anymore so having a little more fuel to feed the 16g for now would be awsome..ALso with the new ecu I won't have to worry about downshifting into 1st anymore, I can just build boost and take off without having to worry about my ecu pulling timing, and bogging down.ALso doing it for the better launch capabilities, If I do decide to head to the track this year..

But it does turn out I had the man fpr in the whole time.

pimpin81 · Apr 10, 2011

MY1GDSM said:
As said above you have everything you need... Just wondering aside from putting your an Eprom Ecu in and having a little more fuel (only about 25cc's) what is your reason? Is their a problem with the ECU in it or is it just not a Eprom? Just wondering... .

Also just a note, that is about the most that fuel trims will be able to adjust. So your trims would be maxed (once they adjusted) an have no room to adjust. But fueling would be somewhat close to inline as long as the car had no other issues.

I was just wondering what the differences were, The reason i wanted to put the 5 speed ecu in was because i have a stainless steal down pipe, a 14b turbo with stainless steel manifold and ported o2 housing, that 25cc's wouldnt hurt i was thinking about throwing on it all on at the same time including the 450 cc injectors and the manual fpr

o0GuitarKid0o · Sep 19, 2014

How about my car , it used to be a factory turbo laser rs , the person swapped the engine out to a non turbo 4g63 kinda iffy(i think guy didnt no what he was talking about) and now here i am running 390cc injectors(with resisterpack, ,unkown if the fpr is n/t or turbo auto or manual , ive got the ecu thats for a turbo automatic (stock ecu), and i bought a nt ecu whitch has been in for over a year and it seems like im running rich as f!@#, ive got a fpr for a manual turbo car, aswell as a turbo manual ecu,

THE CAR IS N/T ATM (turbos waiting for an engine swap next summer, hopefully)

So my question is should i use the stock ecu(turbo auto) even no my cars not turbod anymore but it has the stock injectors 390cc , stock resisterpack(for low impendence injectors) ,stock fuel rail ( i assume), my car eats gas alot , oh and my cars got the nock sensor hanging from its connector just chillin so i shouldnt get a cel(check engine light, if ya didnt no whitch im sure ya do) for a knock sensor.

srry old post i know my cars wierd and cant seem to find an awnser to my question i want it to run better and not be a gas gusler as much LOL

oh and it still has the stock turbo tranny fm33 or what ever its called

Thanks

bmxfelon420 · Sep 20, 2014

o0GuitarKid0o said:
How about my car , it used to be a factory turbo laser rs , the person swapped the engine out to a non turbo 4g63 kinda iffy(i think guy didnt no what he was talking about) and now here i am running 390cc injectors(with resisterpack, ,unkown if the fpr is n/t or turbo auto or manual , ive got the ecu thats for a turbo automatic (stock ecu), and i bought a nt ecu whitch has been in for over a year and it seems like im running rich as f!@#, ive got a fpr for a manual turbo car, aswell as a turbo manual ecu,

THE CAR IS N/T ATM (turbos waiting for an engine swap next summer, hopefully)

So my question is should i use the stock ecu(turbo auto) even no my cars not turbod anymore but it has the stock injectors 390cc , stock resisterpack(for low impendence injectors) ,stock fuel rail ( i assume), my car eats gas alot , oh and my cars got the nock sensor hanging from its connector just chillin so i shouldnt get a cel(check engine light, if ya didnt no whitch im sure ya do) for a knock sensor.

srry old post i know my cars wierd and cant seem to find an awnser to my question i want it to run better and not be a gas gusler as much oh and it still has the stock turbo tranny fm33 or what ever its called

Thanks

You're going to have problems more or less no matter what, the intake not being the same as a turbo car as well as the huge exhaust difference is gonna do odd things to the car. I'd wonder if your FPR isnt bad, maybe if you have a way to put a gauge on it to make sure its working right.

I ran around with my wastegate flapper disconnected for a few days on my car and it ran fine, not super super rich but decent.

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