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2G Loud knocking in my engine need help asap guys please! (Bad Oil Pump?)

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Matthew Hamilton

Proven Member
33
0
Aug 31, 2014
Anaheim, California
Hey guys, so i bought a 2g DSM 420a completely stock. This is my first car but ive been torn apart from it for a few months now. Recently I was driving and kinda pushed it a little going to 5k+ RPM's just having some fun and out of nowhere i felt a significant lose in power. And along with the lose of power in driving there is a very loud knocking noise coming from the engine bay itself. So i few days later i checked everything out for some reason i didnt have ANY oil i guess(friend helped me out im a noobie in cars/engines but know basics) anyways we put brand new oil in it and also there wasnt any coolant so we put some in, just weird because i recently got all my fluids changed around 3 months before this happened. So after that i turned my car back on and the noise was very dim as if it the noise was going away or something so i drove it around and tempted to drive it to my house which is about a hour away from where i pretty much broke down. Everything was good the noise was there but it wasnt as loud still felt some sort of lose in power or atleast i think. Half way driving along the freeway i got stuck in traffic and the noise was so terrible people were starring, the noise came back and was LOUD! So i got a tow truck to come get my car and finish taking it home. It is now sitting in my backyard. I dont know what to do im 18 so money is indeed a problem so i dont want to take it in a shop, i want to attempt on fixing it. Its hard to tell what the problem exactly. So far all ive done is what i know, i emptied the oil to make sure there wasnt anything chunky or bad in it, it looked good. So then i went and took off the valve cover(dont have a engine lift) and was thinking maybe a shaft was broken. But no its really clean the camshafts(i believe thats what it is) are in perfect condition, everything in the top of the engine looks very good. BUT! The only thing we noticed was it was pretty much oil free. Keep in mind i emptied the oil about 10minutes before removing the valve cover. So seeing how it was very very dry of oil, to the point where you wont get any on your finger, we were thinking maybe its a bad Oil Pump? Since the noise dimmed as we put brand new oil in. Is this a possibility that a bad oil pump can cause such a noise in the engine? I really hope its not like a blown piston or anything since i dont have the money to take it to get it fixed, and i need to get this fixed because being a college student with no car sucks! Lol. Seriously though if anyone knows any advice or can help a newcommer DSM'er out id appreciate it so much. Any questions on about the car ill be happy to answer just wanna fix this! Thanks guys. I live in the Anaheim area so any help AT ALL would be very needed at this time.
 
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No oil equals destroyed engine. At the very least you have a spun bearing, more likely a few spun bearings. Pull the oil pan and check it out.
 
If it was low on oil,many things are possible... the first thing I would do to diagnose the issue and clear the oil pump being at fault would be to put the oil pan back on and sealed up. put all new oil and filter in it. keep the valve cover off... get someone inside the car to attempt to start it. If and when it starts you want to make sure that oil is getting to the top of the engine. This should happen very rapidly if the oil pump is working properly. If there is absolutely no oil flying to the top of the engine while its running for a few seconds,id say your culprit is the oil pump... If that's the case the oil pump most likely failed while the engine was running steady rpm and could have and most likely did severe internal damage to engine internals such as main bearings, rod bearings, cam journals ect... and more times than not it will result in the engine needing replaced...
 
Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. So either way theres some type of internal damage to the engine im assuming by your guyses comments. Damn that sucks then LOL i dont even know half the stuff you guys are listing or how to get to it. I guess the easiest thing to do it retire this Eclipse and buy a new car when i can.. Thanks guys.
 
Dont give up so easily. Start by dropping the oil pan. Drain the car of oil, jack it up, remove the oil pan bolts and separate the oil pan from the block. Check to see if there are any fragments of the bearings in the pan (metal shavings), and cut the oil filter open to see if it caught any metal shavings. 420a's are pretty common to find in junk yards, and doing a swap with a junk yard motor would be cheaper than rebuilding yours. Either way you would learn a lot about your car and it's a fun job to do with some friends. Either way, good luck!
 
^^ What he said... Don't give up so easy. Everyone lives and learns we have all destroyed parts,engines ect... First off what are your goals for the car? Are you just needing a car to drive? Do you plan to build the car for drag or road coarse? Do you just want a fun street strip car? That's the first thing you need to decide on. Once you decide that then you can start putting your options together as to what would best suit your needs/wants... There is a million options out there with these cars. If you have the will to learn how to do your own work instead of paying someone to do it its going to save you a lot of money, as well as you having the knowlage of knowing excactly whats going on with the car at all times... decide on what you want from the car and I can further assist you... im sure many others will chime in and help you out as well. The sky is the limit in the dsm world!
 
Thanks a bunch guys. Tomorrow ima drop the oil pan. Ill drained it and saw nothing wrong with the oil so yeah ill oil pan will be dropped tomorrow and ill see what happens from there. Can you guys give me a hint on where the Oil Pump will be located at? haha. But yeah tomorrow ill look through the oil pan and filter and then ill run brand new oil in with the valve cover off and see what happens. I hope its nothing to EXTREME i miss driving this car and dont wanna let go of this car seeing how its my first car and a car ive admired for some time! Thanks for the help and boost in confidence. And as far as what i want to do with this car is basically make it into a daily street car.
 
I just got done fixing my 420a that had bad rod knock. I spun a rod bearing on cyl 4. I had the crank turned as little as possible at a local machine shop. Replaced the rod with the bad bearing with a remanufactured b&p rod. Cleaned all oil passages in block and head. She runs great now. This was done for about 300 bucks with parts and machine work at local rates. This is a temporary motor while I finish her forged block for boost.rubbing n/a right now on this stock just an idea of what your maybe in for. Please don't g give up so easy, take it as a leaning experience. That's what being a dsm'er is about. People on this forum ate helpful and the search brings up a to of useful information on where to even start on. A full rebuild if it comes to it.
when you drop the pan, take off the bearing caps, if you see something like the picture below you for sure have bad bearings
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I just got done fixing my 420a that had bad rod knock. I spun a rod bearing on cyl 4. I had the crank turned as little as possible at a local machine shop. Replaced the rod with the bad bearing with a remanufactured b&p rod. Cleaned all oil passages in block and head. She runs great now. This was done for about 300 bucks with parts and machine work at local rates. This is a temporary motor while I finish her forged block for boost.rubbing n/a right now on this stock just an idea of what your maybe in for. Please don't g give up so easy, take it as a leaning experience. That's what being a dsm'er is about. People on this forum ate helpful and the search brings up a to of useful information on where to even start on. A full rebuild if it comes to it.
when you drop the pan, take off the bearing caps, if you see something like the picture below you for sure have bad bearings
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Alright well $300 doesnt sound to bad im just trying to stay under $600 thats pretty much my absolute max to fix it up (in a hurry) im for sure going to keep this car mainly for learning purposes like you guys have said up above. Not just that but so i can say i built/fixed it in its dark days. Ill for sure start working on this and do whatever it takes to get it running again.
 
your rates might be more or maybe even less. You will also need a gasket kit(some eBay ones are good for na,research first) and I would recommend spending a little more on an oil pump.i choose not to because it isn't going to be a long term motor,but if you are planning on it being a daily for a while its worth it imo. Might as well replace timing components since you will have the remove the belt if you go the way I did. Pm me for a link to the rods if you need some cheap oem replacements.

EDIT: You will see an oil pick up tube when you drop the pan, remove that with a 13mm(iirc) and what that is bolted to is your oil pump, its near the crank sprocket.
the rod caps are 11mm and take some work to remove.
if you need anything else and you can't find the info by search then feel free to ask and I will try to answer,as will others I'm sure.
 
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So im under the car and I'm looking and what all do I need to remove the oil pan? Haha like I said I can't change oil and tires that's as much as I know. And I can't find any videos on the internet or anything
 
you
got to remove the cross brace,the 2 bolts that hold the motor mount to the brace, the brace that goes from the block to trans(2 bolts) its located on the on the front of the block (closer to front,on the drivers side) the oil filter. Some people claim you can get by without lowering the downpipe. I chose to lower it.yoy have 2 bolts that support it to a bracket on the block then 2 nuts that attach it to the manifold.
I think that covered it.
 
you
got to remove the cross brace,the 2 bolts that hold the motor mount to the brace, the brace that goes from the block to trans(2 bolts) its located on the on the front of the block (closer to front,on the drivers side) the oil filter. Some people claim you can get by without lowering the downpipe. I chose to lower it.yoy have 2 bolts that support it to a bracket on the block then 2 nuts that attach it to the manifold.
I think that covered it.
Thanks for the replys man i really appreciate it, although pretty much i have no idea what half that stuff is you listed or what it looks like im sure i can figure it out. Ima do some more reserch to see if i can find pictures or even a video, are there any other forums here that maybe have picture instructions do you know of?
 
If it was day light still I would take some pics and circle them/label.
the cross member runs from front to back,closer to the drivers side. It ends by the back of the front tire.it's held in by 2 bolts in the front,by the radiator and 1 bolt in the back by the control arm.thw motor mount is held in by 2 bolts that's attached to the cross member,ita on the front of the motor on the bottom.the downpipe is the pipe that runs from the exhaust manifold it run to the car,goes over the oil pan.if that doesn't help, post back and I will get some pics after work tomorrow if needed.
 
Okay so i know what the motor mount and downpipe were and know where their locations were, i googled images for the cross member, i just wanted to make sure that i didnt take off anything i wasnt suppose to and make the problem worse haha. Thank you, i will start removing these items ina bit. Ill probably leave the downpipe hanging and remove it if i really need to. Thanks again man.
 
if you leave it attached to the cat but take it off the manifold you have all the room you need to easily work on it. It's hard to remove something you shouldn't under there,if it runs over the oil pan, then its got to go.also removing the passenger side radiatorfan helps you reach the mnifold bots on the down pipe.
 
it's going to need some work done for sure, right now I'm trying to get him through the basics LOL.
the crank,rod and block are going to need cleaned and inspected.as wil the head.
it may not need a complete rebuild, which would be good since he is on a budget.
other option would be a salvage yard motor and try your luck.
 
Okay, so we removed the valve cover and let it run, oil was being pumped in the top of the head which is a good thing (i had a video so you can get a hear of the noise but i cant get it off my phone..) So the next thing we did was put the valve cover back on and ran it while unplugging each spark plug at a time. The noise was still there after each plug was unplugged. Just an update on the current issue.
 
one thing you should do, if possible is to cut open the oil filters and look for metal shavings, pray that there are none. like others has said its a pretty good bet that a bearing has spun. only way to check is to pull the oil pan.
 
running that hard and that much with out any oil your best bet is to tear apart and have gone over in machine shop.. thing's like that need attention, my father has a engine performance machine shop and builds high dollar engines and even the stock ones if ran out of oil will warp and ruin a lot cranks need to e at a very high tolerance and being off will destroy a rank or rod fast! my suggestion is buy another motor or have it tor down and looked at by a professional. if your low on money best bet find a used or junkyard motor. sorry for your luck and best wishes man i've seen the destruction of no oil before. scary.
 
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