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What could cause my South Bend Clutch disk and pp to look like this?

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Dylan0123

10+ Year Contributor
197
6
Dec 1, 2010
a, Illinois
Just pulled my transmission, had a South Bend Clutch SS-Series with TZ-Kevlar clutch kit, put ~22k miles on it and it was slipping within 5k miles. I kept running it cause it drove fine in most conditions except for when I tried reving past 3500rpm. It used to only slip when I would do a pull in 5th at like 50-60mph (but if i downshifted first it'd be fine), then it started slipping when I would do any kind of pull past about 3000 rpm

What could cause these heat marks on the pp and flywheel surface and the worn down ring around the disk?

The flywheel was an oem one that was resurfaced to spec (.608-.610) by a reputable machine shop and everything was installed by an ASE certified mechanic. I'm fairly sure the clutch was adjusted properly just like the video that Jack's Transmissions made.

while cleaning out the bell housing I found a small rock like 1/8'' diameter stuck in a corner in a ball of grease, could that have been an issue? The pivot ball and clutch fork were reused but they didn't seem to be overly worn down.

I did find a little bit of oil in the bell housing and I don't know where it's coming from. I think the oil pan gasket is seeping a little bit b/c I used gray rtv instead of black, but I don't think it got into the bell housing. The rear main behind the flywheel looks dry, but I haven't taken the flywheel off yet. Not sure about the x-fer case input seal, can't tell if it's leaking or not...

Anyway, I need some help guys. Tell me what you think. Thanks

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I had slippage issues as well with mine, it was the flywheel that was wrong. It was a stock, resurfaced one. My step height was correct at the outer edge but not towards the centre, where it was out, causing it to really only grab on about 50% of the surface.

I swapped the flywheel for an ACT streetlite and all the problems disappeared.

Look familiar?

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Last edited by a moderator:
Out of spec flywheel you can see on the outer edge were it was grabbing.

Same as poster above.
 
Good, I hope that was the issue. I'll be installing a new ACT Streetlite flywheel that I had a machinist measure at .608 across the full surface, as well as a like-new fidanza 3.2 kit, new oem tob, pivot ball, and clutch fork. Don't want this to happen again

I'll get my old oem flywheel measured at work on wed. to see if it's out of spec.
 
Measure the disk if you intend on reusing it, and scuff it with some 600-1000grit sand paper to break the glaze on the friction surfaces. It looks like an out of spec flywheel.
 
The step height on the outside edge of the flywheel was .604, and closer to the inside it was more like .608-.610.

I printed RRE's clutch and flywheel tech info page and gave it to the machinists and they still did the job wrong...won't be giving them my business any more
 
Sounds about right for the wear patterns. Go find a better machinist.
 
Definitely. They're known for building high horsepower V8's, yet they can't get the specs right on a japanese flywheel :(

The SBC kit did pretty good considering I was only using 1/4 of its surface for ~20k miles :)
 
I'd stay away from the Fidanza clutch discs. I've ran a 2.1 and a 4.3 and both discs after 15k miles had springs pop out. I re-used the PP off my last 4.3 and moved to a ClutchNET Sprung 6 puck disc with the springs encased and have about 6k miles on it, no issues so far.
 
Obvious problem with improperly stepped flywheel but wow the rest of that clutch and pressure plate looks just amazing! Deglaze it and use it again! Unless of course being stepped incorrectly has damaged the wear surface. Thing looks brand new!
Tim is the expert on these. If he says deglaze and reuse after measuring I wouldn't hesitate.
I have not heard good thing about Fidanza sprung friction discs but I have a few friends that have run their unsprung 4 pucks without problems.
 
Yeah I wasn't sure about reusing the sbc disk and pp so I decided to go ahead and put on the fidanza. Thinking about it now, I bet the sbc kit would hold up just fine for another 25k miles at least, but I had already bought the fidanza before I took out the transmission.

Got the fidanza 3.2 kit for $170 w/ 25 miles on it, so if it craps out on me I won't be out anything but time, which is fine with me. Didn't know about all the negative reviews surrounding it, but I'll keep my fingers crossed since it's already in.
 
Well it's been 1 year and 2 months, and I just pulled my transmission again because the fidanza 3.2 clutch was slipping any time i go over 3500rpm.

I pulled the flywheel off and there was a tablespoon of oil sitting on the lip inside the crank, I'm assuming rear main seal failure is the culprit.

I'll post some pics of what i found.

What do you think would cause the grooves on the fingers of the pressure plate?
Do you think there's another issue besides the oil contamination?
The throw out bearing (clutch release bearing or whatever its called) didn't look abnormal at all
The pivot ball, clutch fork, and input shaft bearing surface look great
Notice how the pads on the flywheel side were black/glazed looking, and the pads on the pressure plate side look almost new.

I used a dial indicator and found out the flywheel is still at .608 step height, so it's good to go, i'm just hoping those heat marks are ok. Should i just clean it up with some scotch brite pads and throw it back on?

There's nothing to catch my fingernail on the flywheel, no pitting, no cracks or anything like that.

I'll be installing a Comp Clutch stage 2 full faced carbon/kevlar kit this time around, as well as a new throw out bearing of course.

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Well, it looks like either the clutch/flywheel assembly was not installed flush on the crank flange, or you have excessive runout on the crank or the transmission input shaft or had a damaged clutch disk from installation, or your pressure plate was not fully seated flush when installed.

I would strongly recommend getting the flywheel professionally mic'ed out to confirm it is flat, as well as that the plane while rotating is square.

As a secondary check, I would use a magnetic base and dial indicator and check the runout of the crank flange and the thrust play, and then do the same thing with a dial indicator on the input shaft nose with a clutch disk installed and hand-spinning it. Considering you likely have a rear main seal issue, I would put more money on a bent crank (excessive runout), or excessive thrust play. If the fluid is gear oil and not motor oil, then the input shaft seal is smoked and your input shaft tapered roller bearings are way out of spec and require replacement (which I would also do the intermediate shaft tapered roller bearings at the same time; i.e. transmission refresh).
 
Oh wow. Thanks for the input Tim.

The motor was built with forged internals by a reputable shop 50k miles ago and has been running great, I don't understand why I'd have a bent crank or excessive thrust play. The transmission was also rebuilt by Jacks Transmissions 50k miles ago so I don't understand why the input shaft seal or roller bearings would be bad. The input shaft has no play in it at all

I bet I installed the pressure plate or flywheel wrong. I sure hope that's the case at least.

Tim I noticed I can move the transmission output shaft (the one that goes into the transfer case) in and out about 1mm, is it supposed to move that much? There's no play side to side or up and down, just in and out.
 
Yes, that is how the output shaft is retained by a simple detent ball between the shaft and the viscous coupler, then retained by a snapring. It should have play; that's the only one that should.
 
Good to know. I forgot to mention that my slave cylinder was leaking really bad (had to refill 1/4 of the reservoir every 5 days) so it definitely wasnt doing its job. Im hoping thats what caused the grooves on the pressure plate fingers.
 
I'd say the grooves are from one of the following:
1. Misadjusted MC rod
2. TOB doesn't move smoothly on the quill (boss/tube the TOB slides on)
3. You ride the clutch
4. The TOB is on it's way out (doesn't rotate smoothly).
 
And there is either a bent hub clutch disk from install (hanging the transmission on the clutch disk when installing), or a motor with crank runout, or input shaft runout (different from bearing preload), or the clutch was not installed perfectly flat, or the TOB sleeve is smoked, or the TOB itself is damaged, or you had loose bellhousing bolts (or missing the rear bolt), etc. Either way, did you address the clutch fork and pivot ball, and TOB clip inspect the TOB sleeve when you did the install originally?

Did you assemble the clutch installing the pressure plate bolts in a star pattern to hand-tight, then torqueing to 22-24 ft/lb? Same thing for the flywheel, hand-tightening in star pattern, then torque to 30/70/100 ft/lbs with Loctite red after confirming your crank flange and flywheel flange were perfectly flat/clean/square, etc.?

This doesn't look like a product issue of quality control, it looks like clutch hydraulics and pre-existing worn parts along with assembly.
 
Thanks for the input Morphius. Sounds like this is a combination of things, mostly just error on my part combined with a worn out hydraulic system.

I don't always have all the tools needed to do this job the professional way, such as using an engine hoist to lift the transmission perfectly in to place, and that may have led to hanging the tranny on the clutch disk during installation.

The TOB was in good shape and it moved great when i installed it. I used a new oem TOB, new pivot ball, and a new clutch fork on the last install. None of the bellhousing bolts were loose or missing. I made sure to install the pressure plate the correct way.

I did have a little trouble torquing the flywheel because I was using a 1/2'' drive breaker bar in the crank bolt (inside the crank pulley) and the car was jacked up so high that the breaker bar sometimes slipped (had it pressed against the ground but it barely touched). But I made sure it was at 98 ft. lbs and i did it in increments like youre supposed to, i just had a tough time with it.

There's a chance I put too much red loctite on the flywheel bolts, because i found some dried up on the backside of the flywheel where it touches the crank. I think I read a thread the other day where someone suggested that could cause issues.

I just looked under the dash the other day and noticed my master cylinder has been dripping very slightly, not sure how long that's been going on. So i'll be installing a new master along with the slave cylinder.
 
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