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2G 97 Eagle Talon TSi AWD - P1104 - Rough Idle

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Krileon

Proven Member
34
0
Aug 25, 2014
Dalton, Georgia
I've a 97 Eagle Talon TSi AWD that's throwing P1104 (his reader says "Manufacturer Control Fuel Air Metering") and is idling very rough. There appears to be some sort of hose that is not connected. It seams to have broken off and was apparently puttied on. Below are some pictures of the hose, but I'm not sure if it's relevant to the issue.

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My mechanic just fixed the car up again. It has all new belts, new water pump, and new exhaust. He had to put it back into time twice now. It broke down in town and wouldn't start at all (it tried though) and once he put it back in time it started right up, but now it's idling rough and throwing that error code. Once you get up to speed it seams to run perfectly fine. The car also sat for a good 3 years up to a month ago when we started fixing it up.

My mechanic threw out his shoulder working on it so he can't work on it any further for awhile so trying to get this figured out and make sure it's safe for my son to drive. My mechanic says it's ok to drive, but I'm not comfortable with the rough idle as it already broke down in town before on my son and don't want to have to go through that again.
 
There are a hundred possibilities when you said had to be timed again. That should never happen. That line is now an open hole in yhe intake. You need a new bov and plug that line in.
 
Any idea where I can get a new BOV. Finding parts for this thing has been a nightmare.

There are a hundred possibilities when you said had to be timed again. That should never happen. That line is now an open hole in yhe intake. You need a new bov and plug that line in.
The bottom housing on the timing belt is missing (if you've any idea where I can get a new housing am all ears for that too). I've no idea why, but it's not there. It threw a power steering belt which whacked the timing belt and threw it out of time and took the water pump with it, which seized up. All of that is fixed now. The second time I'm guessing it went out of time when the alternate belt got thrown. All the belts are now new and tight so it shouldn't have any issues again.
 
When the timing jumped did it bend any valves? Have you done a compression test after timing. Check the classifieds or ebay or even your local craighlist. Try to get at least a 1g bov as the stock 2g ones are junk.

As far as I'm aware there are no bent valves. No compression test was done. I'll talk to my mechanic tomorrow to see about getting a compression test and having him check the valves. It does run fine though; just rough idle.
 
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Ok, replaced the BOV with stock and it's idling a little better, but it's still idling rough. I guess the best way to describe it is it's sputtering. Once you get up to speed it's fine. It just idles rough. It idles at on average 700 RPM, climbs to 800 RPM, then drops to 500 RPM, rinse repeat. I'm suspecting it's a vacuum leak.

Took a video of it. Part way through I turn on the AC. It drops the RPM to nearly 0, but still doesn't stall out at least.

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Where's that located? I have a meter to test its voltage and will be getting some carb cleaner to test for vacuum leaks (or if I can find someone nearby with a smoke tester), but can't find a diagram of where the thing is at. Read it's pretty common for it to go bad (and is expensive to replace!). Do you think it's ok to drive even with its rough idling (drives fine once you hit 1000 RPM). I also have a code reader that should arrive Saturday so I can see if it's throwing any new codes since replacing the BOV (CEL still on).
 
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Test the coil resistance. If they are bad unplug the unit. A bad isc coil can fry the drivers in the ecu. The part is a little pricey but not that bad. 30k across coils. Three sets if I recall. Its on the front (passenger side) of the throttle body.
 
Ok, looks like I need to move my battery to get to it. Will test it tomorrow or this weekend. Found a post here and a video on what to test for as well. Thanks for the suggestion, will report back what I find. As a side note I did find a replacement on ebay pretty cheap ($40) so not as bad as I originally thought.
 
The resistance test is as follows.

1-2 = 39.5
2-3 = 39.7
4-5 = 40.8
5-6 = 40.2

Looks like it's shorted? I do have a 2g (black) and I'm not sure if it's range is 30 or 40. I don't think it's supposed to surpass 30ohm, which it does on all tests. I went ahead and removed it already as it was a pain trying to test it with it in (my hands are not so steady, LOL). It also turns slightly left and right, but not much. It also has some minor carbon build up.

Looks more and more like just a stupid vacuum leak somewhere.
 
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The nipple has always been broke, but it was basically puttied/glued on. Before it came off completely it idled fine. My mechanic changed the spark plugs though and am wondering if he got them out of order (going to check that next). It's purely the idle that's the issue though; once you hit 1000 RPMs it's 100% fine.

My reader should be showing up today and will try playing with the BISS after locking it at base (will check the BISS seal to see if it's bad as well). I looked at the wires and didn't see any obvious damage; most are really sealed up inside some routing tubing so they're basically double shielded; is there any specifically I should check for voltage/resistance?
 
If it ran fine before your issue most likely lies in just that area. Check those hoses again. Make sure you didnt damage any of the electrical connectors thst are in close proximity. I doubt biss is your issue given it was fine recently. They dont simply go out of adjustment. Not unless your mechanic messed with something or the biss. Biss also wont cause rough idle, just low or high idle. any chance plug gap is wrong? Problem is I dont know what you did or your mechanic did.
 
I checked the hoses again and checked for vacuum leaks, but I can't find any and the hoses look fine. After cleaning the IAC and putting it back in it idles between 700-800 when in P/N. Soon as I put it into D/R it's idling at 200-500 (so I imagine if I turn on the AC it's gonna stall out). It's also no longer throwing a CEL.

any chance plug gap is wrong?
I've no idea how to check that, but will search around and try to see if that could be it. Would that affect only Idle?

Problem is I dont know what you did or your mechanic did.
The below is everything that I've done since it sat for 3 years. My son let it run nearly empty on fuel (half a gallon left!) and that's when it more or less died (multiple dash warnings and CEL); it was fine up until that point.

1. Fuel Stabilizer
2. New Fuel
3. New Brakes
4. New Oil (and Filter)
5. New Air Filter
6. New Exhaust Pipe
7. New Tires
8. New Belts (All)
9. New Water Pump
10. New Spark Plugs

My mechanic didn't touch the BISS as far as I am aware, but ashamedly I did as part of the VFAQ tutorial.

Also should note my stock boost gauge is working fine. No jumping. Is steady during idle and climbs normally when accelerating. So I don't think it's a boost leak.

Update: My scanner showed up and even though there's no CEL it's reading P1104 and P1105 codes as pending.

Update: Cleared the codes. Cranked it over and P1104 is no longer pending, but it's throwing P1105 for sure. I believe P1105 is fuel pressure solenoid. I cleaned the terminals for its plugin, but code is still thrown. Looks like I need to test it, should I just do a resistance check on it? What would be the range it should have? Should I try bypassing it?
 
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Does it drive ok? I wasnt aware it sat for three years. That might is definately a point to consider. You should check the biss setting procedure and reset it if you havent already.
 
Yeah, it drives fine. It's just idle that's going bonkers. If you're at a red light and have the air on though it's pretty close to stalling out and that's not good as it's hot as hell here. Since my son will be driving it I can't have it nearly stalling on him every time he has to stop. I'll try resetting the idle tomorrow (if I can) as it's raining now and been at it 6 hours today, pooped LOL. Will also test resistance on the FPS as it's throwing a P1105 consistently; the connector seams to have some corrosion as well so will probably heave to replace the FPS and its connector.

I'm not sure my scan tool can reset the idle though. I have the below. I assume it will as plugging in a scan tool is supposed to ground it out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KXLD7Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm figuring since my BOV was jacked and has been that way since I owned it I think the original owners may have adjusted the BISS to compensate for the broken BOV. Once I fixed it it caused more air in the system. So the BISS probably is out of whack. Note that the nipple didn't snap off until recently as the putty crap finally gave out, but the puttied on nipple was more than half clogged so it barely was moving air through it. It has a new stock 2G BOV now though.
 
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Looks like adjusting the BISS only semi-helps. I've adjusted it so much that it's idling at 1200 RPM in Park or Neutral, but soon as I go into Drive or Reverse it tanks to 500 RPM. A/C drops it another 50-100 RPM. If the BISS is set to 750 RPM it tanks to 200 RPM. Going to reset the BISS to 750 RPM since it doesn't seam to be making much of a difference.

Would a bad FPS cause this issue alone? Based off what I've read it just manages fuel pressure during hot start, but it seams to be a mixed bag of information regarding it causing this issue or not.

Could this be a symptom of a dirty throttle body? It hasn't been cleaned since I owned it (over 6 years). Also wondering if my EGR is bad. The muffler had fallen off about 4-5 years ago and didn't have exhaust from half way down the car to the end; so maybe this is full circle and just an emission/buildup problem? Maybe even a bad MAS, but I think that'd throw a code. I'm basically grasping at straws now as I'm running out of ideas. Starting to think my mechanic didn't put it in time right, but I don't have any of the tools to test that; is there any way I can test it without specialty tools?

Update: I think it's my IAC. Even though it reads resistance fine I think its gotta be shot. The Idle doesn't adjust it self when the A/C is turned on, which it should if the IAC is working. Thoughts?

Update: Took off the TB and it's pretty nasty. Also the gasket is completely shot on it (brittle and hard as a rock) so will clean it up and replace the gaskets.
 
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Did you test those coils hot? Ive seen them pass when car is cold but fail when car is warmed up. You can look at timing just by setting number one at tdc and looking at the cam marks
 
No, I tested it by pulling it out then doing resistance test, which it passes fine. I don't think the electrical component is shot in it, but I think the mechanical component is. It also has left and right play in it (can spin by hand left and right a bit). It doesn't appear to be working at all. It's at least not shorted so it won't take out my ECU. I'm working on getting a replacement from someone here through classifieds and will see how it goes. Also looks like my vacuum leak was from the shot TB gasket, which I've ordered a replacement already (replacing the turbo elbow gasket too).
 
While waiting for my IAC to come in I noticed where the coolant line comes into the TB it's pretty gunky. Believe that's the FIAV. Is there a safe way to clean it without damaging it as from what I've read it's a wax coated spring.
 
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Ok, I've just done the following this week.

1. Clean TB
2. Replace TB and Elbow gaskets (felpro)
3. Replaced IAC

Still having the same issue. Idle seams to be at around 1,000 RPM then jumps by about 200 RPM then falls again while in P/N. Soon as I go into D/R it drops to 500 RPM and won't climb without gas. What else could I check? I'm running out of ideas (and money!). Could my TPS be set incorrectly and causing this? The only code it's throwing is P1104, which is "Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid" when I check the Mitsubishi trouble code.

Update: It's acting like the IAC isn't even there. Turning the wheel causes the RPM to also drop. I just replaced it with a brand new one. Both new and old IAC pass resistance test. Old had left/right play in it. New doesn't and looks perfect. Maybe the connector is bad or the wiring to it is bad; I'll test tomorrow as it's about the rain and the engine is too hot right now.

Update: Disconnected the IAC and it made no difference. Vacuum leak maybe? Maybe MAF starting to go bad? Possible my new IAC is also bad? Will check it tomorrow.
 
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