Decided I've got about as much help as I want from this forum. Thanks to the people that actually shared some insightful info.
See you a the shootout next year.

How about you log your wideband and report back.
1) If your reading 11afr on your wideband your airflow is off because your AFRest is very rich.
2) If your airflow is on, you are running around 9.5-10afr on the gauge and you need to lean that sucker out.

What's the point of even attaching a log if you're just going to tell us your AFR's, timing, etc? If you're asking for advice about your WOT logs then a logged wideband IS needed.

Tune for 10.8:1 AFR's, run as much boost as your setup is capable of (I don't see ARP head studs on that list so shoot for 22psi), and back timing off a few degrees @ the RPM you start picking up knock.

1Badvan said:

Not going to log my wideband, not needed.
AFREST is 9.9, WBO2 reads 10.1 wot. above log

Click to expand...

So...you're saying that without any mafcomp adjustments (in wot range), your airflow is dialed in properly?

Once you log your wideband, you'll see that it's way off. There's no point in continuing until you log it...

Sounds like you're either octane limited and/or your W/A intercooler is increasing IAT's because the water is heat soaking. There's no way of knowing that either though, since you don't have a logged IAT sensor.

If you don't want to take the time to solder up one wire to properly log your WB AFR's then don't expect us to take the time to give you free tuning advice.

http://jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration1.html

What type of fuel are you running?

1Badvan said:

I wanted a reason why I needed to log my WBO2 if my AFREST and WBO2 were matching up.

Click to expand...

IDK about you, but I can only look at one thing at a time. I often choose between the road ahead, the boost/afr gauge, OR link. My eyes cannot separate and watch two things at once. It is easy to see where max boost is, and where your idle afr is at, but there is so much more in between that. Besides, it takes all the guesswork out for part throttle/load/rpm conditions when you can compare the two after the log is done. Its as simple as running a few feet of wire form the WB controller to the ECU. Also you *should* log boost, but AFR and AFRest are more useful to compare.

I bet you will find that there will be significant room for improvement, and it will be much easier to do so once you log WBo2.

It's also a good thing to have logged when you go back and look at previous logs to see what changes you made that worked and which ones didn't. Once you start taking more logs, you're going to forget what your AFRs were for a specific log. Or if you do multiple pulls in one night, you might forget what the first pull was.

And unless your AFRs are rock solid and do not move, there is some variance there that can affect the tune. Even just a few tenths is something you want to look into and make adjustments for.

I'm not as experienced as these guys, but from my perspective there are two main reasons to log your wideband.

1. Accuracy. If your eyeballing the AFR and AFRatioEST and trying to remember what they said you'll never be as accurate as the logged value. You also are running a MAF and you'll want to dial in your MAFComp sliders, which means you'll have to compare WB error to airflow and adjust accordingly. Almost impossible to do well without logging WBO2. It's the difference between thinking you have it dialed in and knowing you have it dialed in.

2. Simlicity. If you log WBO2 you have the WBFactor. You don't have to remember anything, eyeball anything, etc. Your WBFactor says your 5% rich at a specific MAF hz, then you go to the slider and raise it 5%. It's that easy.

Why would you not want to log WBO2? I can't think of a single reason.

1Badvan said:

I'll figure it out like I do everything else.

FYI, my afrest 9.9 and WBO2 10.1 (not logged via ecmlink).

If you read my post you would have seen I already tried leaning it out with the results I received.

Click to expand...

If you would read my first post and realize its useless to listen to "what you see" as being accurate. Now splice in 1 wire to your ecu and log the sensor; it isn't rocket science.

Your car must be really slow or you have super human powers. There is no way in hell I am waiting for exactly 5k, look at boost, look at 5.5k look at boost, look at 6k and then look at boost, and do it accurately. I am not a lizard that can split my vision like that. That just sounds frustrating. Especially when there is a sensor that will do that about 8 times a second with really good accuracy.

GSLENK said:

Your car must be really slow or you have super human powers. There is no way in hell I am waiting for exactly 5k, look at boost, look at 5.5k look at boost, look at 6k and then look at boost, and do it accurately. I am not a lizard that can split my vision like that. That just sounds frustrating. Especially when there is a sensor that will do that about 8 times a second with really good accuracy.

Click to expand...

Apparently you are the idiot if you think I'm tuning wot pulls on the street by myself and would endanger other people trying to read everything by myself while trying to drive. I actually have a person ride with me when I tune, they data log, and make changes, while I concentrate on the rpm points and pulls I need as not to cause an accident. Do you even know anything about what I'm driving, what I've done or where I have gauges set up to look at? I've done a lot more then just bought a turbo DSM and bolt on stuff, or paid someone to build my car, then walk around like I've accomplished something. Any dumbass can do an easy build like that. I swear some of you dsm owners are becoming as bad as the corvette guys of the old days.

you guys pissed him off
i totally want to do a eagle summit awd / mitsubishi rvr with 4g6? turbo build.
and now i won't see a build thread from him.

EGLTAWLN said:

you guys pissed him off
i totally want to do a eagle summit awd / mitsubishi rvr with 4g6? turbo build.
and now i won't see a build thread from him.

Click to expand...

Which build would that be on this vehicle, forged 4G64 SOHC turbo, 4G64/4G63 DOHC head w/ custom distributor or the current full blown wire harness/ecu swap?
If you search the web the first 2 are well documented, the last one I still have to update.

The easiest way to go if you want to stay 4G63T DOHC is just do the engine harness/ecu swap like everyone else does.

i have been doing my 4g64 research and if the donor summit comes with the 2.4 i might go that route....
got lots of parts at the local pick and pull to build it.
i've never felt what a 2.3-2.4 can do.
my 2.0 is the fastest car i've been in so i have to imagine what .4 more displacement can do.
is it worth the trouble to go 2.4 or can the summit be satisfied with a 2.0 with more boost?
do you have any vids or pictures of your summit/RVR?
also can the FWD be converted to AWD on these vans?
just started a family and the minivan/suv summit/rvr is very attractive all of a sudden.

EDIT: too many words. Your build is badass. Bottom line is that a logged WB is much more accurate than a human recollection. Either that or you have the juice and don't need to be asking for critiques from sheep. Call up Curt Brown and see what he thinks of your tune.

I didn't call you idiot/dumbass/bad so there is no favor to return, or even insinuate.

EGLTAWLN said:

i have been doing my 4g64 research and if the donor summit comes with the 2.4 i might go that route....
got lots of parts at the local pick and pull to build it.
i've never felt what a 2.3-2.4 can do.
my 2.0 is the fastest car i've been in so i have to imagine what .4 more displacement can do.
is it worth the trouble to go 2.4 or can the summit be satisfied with a 2.0 with more boost?
do you have any vids or pictures of your summit/RVR?
also can the FWD be converted to AWD on these vans?
just started a family and the minivan/suv summit/rvr is very attractive all of a sudden.

Click to expand...

4G61T.org has a forum specifically called wagons. There's info there and some builds of vistas/expos/summits. One of the better known wagon (technically what the vans are classified as) builds by Leon is on there. He's the guy who has all the video's on you tube drag racing, shootout and oval track racing.[DOUBLEPOST=1409099825][/DOUBLEPOST]

GSLENK said:

EDIT: too many words. Your build is badass. Bottom line is that a logged WB is much more accurate than a human recollection. Either that or you have the juice and don't need to be asking for critiques from sheep. Call up Curt Brown and see what he thinks of your tune.

I didn't call you idiot/dumbass/bad so there is no favor to return, or even insinuate.

Click to expand...

No you didn't so apologize for saying you were an idiot, I was frustrated.
Any how I have my WBO2 hooked up and logging. Reads exactly the same as the gauge (point I was trying to make about having it hooked up to log it). Nothing changes but it being logged on the computer to capture and look back at later. Yes I understand the whole solo tuning, easier to see values vs. remembering and this would come in handy.
Any how its done.

Perfect, now lets see a WOT pull from 3k to 7k.

1Badvan said:

Any how I have my WBO2 hooked up and logging. Reads exactly the same as the gauge

Click to expand...

I'll believe it when I see it...

You won't see it. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. believe it if you want.
I guess you missed it when I said I was done with help in this thread.

The biggest help I got in this thread was the link Gofer provided me to tuning the WOT MAFcomp sliders. Thanks man I do appreciate that. My airflow was off 10% + at 5k rpms up. Of course my afrs needed adjust after adjusting the Maf Comp sliders at wot.

nice bit of info over on 4g61t.org.
thanks for the link.

1Badvan said:

You won't see it. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. believe it if you want.

Click to expand...

I figured your ego wouldn't allow you to be proven wrong...but others might actually benefit from a lesson in the necessity of a logged wideband.

My airflow was off 10% + at 5k rpms up. Of course my afrs needed adjust after adjusting the Maf Comp sliders at wot.

Click to expand...

It's recommended to adjust afr with mafcomp, not your fuel map/sliders. Set a target afr in direct access and adjust mafcomp until you hit it...

The 5k+ statement makes me think you're tuning straight off of boostest and map. This is fine, however it is only accurate when the engine is at 100% volumetric efficiency (~5-6k rpm), it is completely inaccurate outside this range. Tuning by wbfactor is much better, in my opinion, and the only way to achieve this is if your wideband is logged.

c2ypt1c said:

I figured your ego wouldn't allow you to be proven wrong...but others might actually benefit from a lesson in the necessity of a logged wideband.



It's recommended to adjust afr with mafcomp, not your fuel map/sliders. Set a target afr in direct access and adjust mafcomp until you hit it...

The 5k+ statement makes me think you're tuning straight off of boostest and map. This is fine, however it is only accurate when the engine is at 100% volumetric efficiency (~5-6k rpm), it is completely inaccurate outside this range. Tuning by wbfactor is much better, in my opinion, and the only way to achieve this is if your wideband is logged.

Click to expand...

It's not a necessity to log the wbo2. The necessity is having a WBO2 period! I do agree though that if you have a wbo2, might as well hook it up. I got a pretty damn safe tune without logging my wbo2 at 25+ psi 93 octane in 100 degree heat. The ONLY advantage of logging my wideband has been easier to go back and look at my afr while tweaking the tune instead of trying to remember them. So easier but not necessary. There goes my ego again.

1Badvan said:

It's not a necessity to log the wbo2....The ONLY advantage of logging my wideband has been easier to go back and look at my afr while tweaking the tune instead of trying to remember them. So easier but not necessary.

Click to expand...

The fact is, there's no way you will achieve the same accuracy using your memory over logged data. It's pretty ignorant to assume otherwise and novice tuners, obviously, cannot appreciate this fact. If you want to debate it, man up and post the log so less experienced users can learn something. Otherwise, keep your "safe" tune to yourself and don't ask for a critique if you can't handle the criticism.

c2ypt1c said:

The fact is, there's no way you will achieve the same accuracy using your memory over logged data. It's pretty ignorant to assume otherwise and novice tuners, obviously, cannot appreciate this fact. If you want to debate it, man up and post the log so less experienced users can learn something. Otherwise, keep your "safe" tune to yourself and don't ask for a critique if you can't handle the criticism.

Click to expand...

That's just it, nobody critiqued the actual tune when I had the log file posted, they only said something about not having a wbo2 logging. Even after I told them my AFR's and I will do it all myself, I always do, always have.