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Water to Air Intercooler High IAT's Help?

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Sp1kE

15+ Year Contributor
374
25
Dec 24, 2005
stratford, ON_Canada
Hi Everyone,
I have a water-air setup I have been running, but have not been able to get past high IAT's only while under boost. It rarely heat soaks and it will drop back to reasonable temps shortly after a pull. I tried a pull around 5psi and the IAT's still went over 100*F

I have a kit from Frozenboost.
Type 8 Core:http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/compact-liquid_air-intercooler-p-209.html
Type 118 Exchanger:http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-air-heat-exchanger/air-to-water-radiator-p-1063.html
and a rule pump:http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-air-adapter/intercooler-pump-p-1000.html

I have tried a couple reservoirs, and am now running a large peanut butter jar(ha,tried to get more water volume)
At first I was running 1/2 inch water lines and fittings with a compound turbo setup (main reason for running this, lack of space)
I was getting up into the 140-150*F on pulls.
Since then I have switched to just a single turbo 14b and 3/4" lines and fittings and I still have the same high IAT's.

I think my sensor is working alright, GM IAT (it starts off at ambient temps) and I have it tapped into my q45 TB.
I have a few older pictures, to help you guys visualize.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here are a few logs:
http://datazap.me/u/sp1ke

I am looking for people who have experience running water/air setups to give me some troubleshooting ideas.
Thanks,
 
I can help! My car has a WAIC on it. I highly recommend you ditch the bilge pump and get a pump meant for the job. The bosch pump used on 03/04 cobras is what I use in my car. The secret to getting good numbers out of WAIC is to have a large exchanger. This means that you can have a huge core with low pressure drop but if your exchanger isn't removing heat from the water fast enough AND the waterflow isn't fast due to the type of pump then you will likely have quite a bit of room for improvement.

In the projects section of dsmecu.com is my build... feel free to check it out. I repurposed the stock a/c condenser as the heat exchanger for my water to air intercooler. It works great from what I can tell but I don't have a before/after comparison of IAT with this vs the stock smic. Anyway, there are pictures on dsmecu.com if you want to see.
 
Oh thanks!.
I tried to join that site but the project section is locked.

My flow seems pretty awesome, unless there is somehow issues only under boost/high rpm.
I will see if i can get a video tonight.
My Rule pump is suppose to flow more than that bosch unit, but I am willing to try anything at this point.

I thought that heat exchanger would be suffice?
It says it holds 32 Oz of water.

I guess next step would be to start measuring temps in different areas to see where I am?
Looks like my exchanger has a tap for a water temp sensor I could try out.

Thanks!
 
I'd try the pump first, I also use a 03/04 bosch pump on a smaller dual pass heat exchanger then you are using (the one from cxracing). This intercooler http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/long-flow-style-water-to-air-intercooler-p-219.html My intercooler is mounted where a side mount IC would be, outside of the engine bay in the fender well like a dsm would be. In theory your trying to circulate the water fast so the water doesn't become heat soaked.
I'm running a Td06h-20g and have been tuning in 100+ degree heat at around 25-28 psi with minimal knock, average has been around 1.1 degree of timing pulled or less.
What type of mixture are you using, it seems 80% distilled water, 20% gm dexcool nets the best performance for me. Also you could always jump up to the thicker core of what you have http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-air-heat-exchanger/air-to-water-heat-exchanger-p-1026.html < if I ever upgrade mine that's what I'll be running.
 
Last edited:
Hum alright. For a mix I am using just straight water, I will try the dexcool with it. And I guess I will try to source one of those pumps.
 
Sounds like you need more fluid capacity, surface area and increased flow rate on the liquid circuit. A quart is way too small.

Basically, you are saying I need to fix everything.

the 1 quart is for the heat exchanger alone, that is minus the resevoir, and the IC core. Probably closer to 3 quarts total in the system, but I can measure, if you'd like?

I made a pull the other night, hopped out right after and the water in the resevoir was nice and cold, the IC was cool to the touch, but still 140*+ intake temps. I am working on getting one of those bosch pumps to hopefully increase the water speed.

I am having a heck of a time finding a simple water temp gauge with a 1/8 npt sending unit that begins reads under 100*F, unless it is from china and will take 4 weeks to get here. Any suggestions?
 
The flow on that pump does seem fairly low at 500 gph. I also use a rule pump, but it's the 14a which is rated at 3700 gph. I don't have any experience with running a heat exchanger so it may work a bit differently.
 
Hum I am a bit confused,
The Rule 401fc that I use is rated at 500gph
The Bosch Cobra pump that the 2 gentleman above me suggest I switch to is 317GPH
And your Rule 14a is rated at 3700 GPH

would make more sense to switch to the 14a?
 
Your IAT sensor location is not recommended, look here : http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/speed-density-iat-sensor-install-pre-or-post-throttlebody.469680/

Take a better pump like the Bosch mentionned above, Meziere or Jabsco pump for better flow performance.
The pump need to be plumbed idealy on the cold side of the heat exchanger for longevity.
The "frozen" heat exchanger has bad reviews from the cooling performance, my choice is the Afco heat exchanger for 03/04 Cobra : http://www.afcodynapro.com/content/...hanger-2003-04-mustang-cobra-double-pass-afco
The total volume of water need to be one gallon minimum, watter wetter help alot for discharge cavitation in the pump.
Also an air bleeder is necessary on top of the Waic core for air removing from the system.

Remy
 
Like I said my setup is a little different from yours, I don't believe my pump is available in a inline configuration. Mine is submerged in the reservoir.
 
If you want to fix it you need to do some science. Otherwise you can change parts until your blue in the face and never fix it.

Pick up a few gm type coolant temp sensors. plumb them in on the water side, pre and post I/C, Then put an AIT pre and post. Also put coolant temps pre and post heat exchanger. Pickup some sort of a data logger. One can be made from an arduino for like $50.

You can use the 5v supply of the arduino and pull up resistor to measure the resistance of the temp sensor, and thus the temperature.

This will tell you if yout a2w core is junk, or if you need more flow, or if your heat exchanger is junk.

Remember, more data is more gooder.
 
Well I'm back with a little more data.

I moved the IAT to the intake pipe pre turbo. on a 60* day i was wasnt going much higher than 70* about 6 inches away from the turbo inlet on a pull.
So my IAT seems to function.

Also should note that between my TB and the IM, there is one of those heat barrier gaskets to try an prevent heatsoak of the sensor.

I also picked up a Bosch cobra pump, just changing the brushes in it.

Next step is to Tap the Intercooler core pre cooling and post cooling, to see what is going on.
 
Well I'm back with a little more data.

I moved the IAT to the intake pipe pre turbo. on a 60* day i was wasnt going much higher than 70* about 6 inches away from the turbo inlet on a pull.
So my IAT seems to function.

Also should note that between my TB and the IM, there is one of those heat barrier gaskets to try an prevent heatsoak of the sensor.

I also picked up a Bosch cobra pump, just changing the brushes in it.

Next step is to Tap the Intercooler core pre cooling and post cooling, to see what is going on.
Did you ever fix your high air temp problem? If so, what was it?
Thanks.
 
If he doesn't reply, I'd be willing to bet the aforementioned issues of not enough volume, surface area and flow were the issues.

I'm finishing up my system, and a few key points stuck out to me:

1. Flow under pressure: the pump will need to flow under at least a couple psi due to system restriction. Most bilge pumps stall out or lose all flow at 2-3psi. I went with a jabsco pump for this reason.

2. Reservoir: 1qt isn't even close to enough for a street car, let alone drag specific. My reservoir is almost 3.75 gallons, though it is custom.

3. Heat exchanger: you need alot of surface area, the more the better for shedding heat. I'm using a frozen boost dual pass 8x24x2" unit rated for 600+hp.

line size is important to keep flow up. I'm using -16an, which is expensive and I should have gone a different route for about 1/4 the cost, but live and learn. At least I won't have to worry about leaks or flow impedance, but 1" silicone hose and barb fittings would easily don't he job.

Past that, it's all about what you're using it for. Street? Flow path should go: reservoir>pump>heat exchanger>intercooler>back to res.
Race? Res (ice filled pref.)>pump>Intercooler>heat exchanger.>back to res.

There are variation considerations but these are the areas to pay attention to.

What issues are you having?
 
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