2G Hello, new to dsm tuning. Can you help tune my new ride?

bizie · Jul 20, 2014

Finally got my first boosted car. Good old 97 gst with the 16g turbo at 16psi, 272 cams, 550 injectors, safc2 tuner, walbro 250, or is that 255? I don't know but the guy told me 250. It has a full 3" exhaust from the turbo back, it does have a cat, and it does have the ARP head studs. It has a pro-comp ultra lite air fuel ratio meter and when I stomp the gas it's right before the rich zone and often flashes green. When I am just driving normal I barley see the fuel air meter move at all and is usually in the lean zone if it does come up. Does all of this sound normal? This car also has no power steering, the seller said removing it added 10hp, LOL

, I almost lost it when I heard that. I mean I could understand maybe a 3hp gain but no way 10hp, LOL

. I am a motorcycle mechanic and know very little about turbo cars, any help is much appreciated.

I got the car for $3900 and it was out of tune from the 4-5k rpm range, but only in 3rd and 4th gear. Car pulls hard in all gears until 4k rpm in 3rd or 4th and looses all power. The seller told me its just 3rd and 4th gear being short and I needed to shift, I told him he's lost his mind LOL

, this guy...smh... I noticed my air fuel meter going very rich at the time of the power loss. So I started reading and reading about the safc2 tuner and tried to work out the tune. By trimming more fuel away in the 4-5k rpm zone (At -33% now) I was able to get the car to pull all the way through 3rd and 4th gear. For some reason now the tune issue has jumped into the 1st gear where it was not before. Its losing power at about the 3k rpm in first gear only but more so when the engine is cold. I have the tune so good for 3rd gear I am reluctant to mess with it anymore. Also, the 1st gear seems to pull hard once I've been driving for a while and every things nice and hot but when I first start the car pull out of my road I stomp first gear and lose power at 3k rpm. I'm not sure if this is normal for a supped up turbo car or not.

My safc2 Hithrottle settings are as follows, 1000rpm @ -12%, 1600@ -16, 2200 @ -20% 2800 @ -27%, 3400 @ -28%, 4000 @ -33%, 4600 @ -37%, 5200 @ -38%, 5800 @ -38%, 6400 @ -39%, 7000 @ -40, 7600 @ -43%. Do these numbers sound okay for the mods I have? It really seems to pull great for the most part.

I'm from Hagerstown MD and everywhere I call for a dyno tune turns me down when I say I use the safc2 tuner. I don't know why they would since ignorant old me can even make improvements but its still not perfect and I've been slamming 3rd gear around hear for the past two days straight. I really don't want to slam 1st around here since it peels wheels every time.

Can someone help me tune this thing with the equipment that is currently installed? Do I need to buy a fuel pressure regulator? A person I talked to said he has a 450hp eclipse with out one and it isn't 100% necessary. Does anyone know where I can get a dyno tune around here? I think I know where they get the name tuner cars... LOL

all day tuning.

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

A- I suck at math

B- What is MBC?

The vents looked correct.

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I am unsure about this here where I have the intake connected to the BOV. There is two nipples at the rear of the BOV, they are currently both hooked up to the intake manifold. When I got the car the top rear nipple on the BOV was not hooked up and neither was the BOV return. Hooking these up this way made me able to get the tune to stay proper. Or seemingly proper. Check out this pic and let me know if this is correct.

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Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Ok, give me 20 minutes to decypher what the hell is goings on there.... wow. Brb with pics of my own to show you what you have to do.

And an mbc = manual boost controller

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

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bizie · Jul 23, 2014

The brass fitting in my hand is blocked off at the end, It is basically acting as a split. You cant see it in the pic though.

Thanks guy for your help.

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

I think someone used plumbers fittings on my car :-(
hahahaha

Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Ok, here is a shot of the bov line, dedicated line to the manifold directly, no tees. You also see the valve cover vent going back into the intake, I see tape where yours should be

I had to make my own fitting through that line, because my intake had no provision for the vent line.

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Here you see my home made mbc hooked to the j pipe and the wastegate, once again, It
its own boost and vac source. Btw, this is a crappy home made mbc, it leaks and I have a hallman in the mail that should be delivered today. Your "plumbing fittings" appear to be an attempt at this style of home made boost controller, its hooked up wrong and made wrong. One line to boost source, one line to the wastegate, not teed to anything.

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And last but not least, the whole shot of correct line running, zero tees on any line. That is your new task.

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Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Do you know where your boost gauge is teed into? That could be one of those lines, but its pretty clear that you need to revamp the vac line situation. The boost gauge should be the only tee, and tee it off the fpr (fuel pressure regulator) line on the right side of the manifold (driver side)

Other than that, bov get its own source. Wastegate gets its own source. If you don't have a barb fitting on the j pipe, remove it and drill and tap one for a hose barb. Use teflon on the fitting sotit doesn't leak. You may need a new j pipe gasket, or like I did, I use rtv as a gasket there. Medium bead around the flange, loosely bolt it on, let it sit an hour and then tighten it down. Never had a leak there.

Thats all assuming you don't have a barb on the j pipe.

Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Ok, here are the last two pics, one is of my j pipe boost source, I did mine underneath so you can't see it, doesn't matter where you do it. second pic is of the line to tee for the boost gauge, if its not already teed there.

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bizie · Jul 23, 2014

I don't have a FPR but I am going to dedicate the top nipple on the bov to the intake manifold. I suppose the so called MBC is suppose to hook to the lower nibble on the bov? Is the top open on your BOV? It looks to have a bolt in it or something? See how mine's a open hole? Is that right?

My plumbers fitting is attached to the intake manifold and then it comes to the a t, which goes to the top and bottom nipple of the BOV. I have no idea where my boost gauge is T'ed into. I will try to find that after this storm. It's not this plumbers fitting, that's for sure. Its just on all the vacuum lines, Maybe because of me...

When I got the car the hose that comes out of my plumbers fitting had what seemed to be a plastic broken nipple. I had no idea where this went and saw the other end came from the intake manifold so I then removed the broken nipple from the hose and hooked it to the top nipple on the bov. The other hose that T'ed off this connection I hooked to the lower nipple on the BOV. I now know this is wrong. Where is the lower nipple hose on the BOV hook to?

This is also when I hooked up my BOV vent tube. I see hose clamps on yours and mine has none. I suppose this needs to be air tight also? This could be another issue.

Thank you for letting me know what that plumbers fitting is for. I love learning, now that's why I'm here.

My valve cover vent does go to the intake that's not tape just part of one of the 5,000 zip ties the original owner had holding this car together. LOL

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

So that plastic barb probably went to somewhere around the J pipe. It probably broke, no one noticed and may be causing a leak or something.

Damn, guy. I'm sorry, you're becoming very helpful.

Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Ok, I will assume, because I can't see it in the pictures that the broken plastic nipple probably went to the stock boost control solenoid. I actually think I can spy it sitting on the fan shroud right by the j pipe. You will see a line going from that to the wastegate (if that's it) then the other line (broken) should have gone to that.

Like I said, I can't see it for sure in the pics, but it looks like its right there.

My bov uses a banjo fitting to connect the vacuum source on the top, that's why it looks different. The nut and allen screw on the top of yours is an adjustment set screw.... you can adjust the pressure the bov holds. Where as mine, you have to take the allen screws out all around and change the internal springs.

As far as your particular bov, I don't know what brand it is and don't know what the correct way to hook it up is, I'd assume it only takes one line, but I'd look up the install instructions to make sure.

And yes, it is always good practice to either zip tie or hose clamp your vac/boost source lines. And the dump tube for the bov. I have had the bov blow the tube off even clamped, I didn't tighten it down enough... think about the blast of air coming out of that 1" hole

And your welcome on the help. If you need more pics I can take more.

Also, you can still put the boost gauge on the stock vac line for the fuel pressure regulator. Its in the same area as where I took the pic of mine.

Double also, if that brass fitting thing is in fact a boost controller, I'd recommend purchasing one. I've heard reviews about the "voodoo" one on ebay, people say its good to go. If not get a hallman or whatever really.... just dump the brass.

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

Something is still not right. I'm going to toss this brass fitting and hook the the lower nipple to the wastegate. I just learned the wastegate and BOV are two different things. I feel so stupid. Help the handicapped. Thank you

So the wastegate is on the turbo and the BOV is for the intake? Smack me please.

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

That nipple did go to the waste gate and it was broken off

So its waste gate to lower BOV nipple and intake manifold to top BOV nipple. This is what I'm about to do once the turbo cools down.

Dude you rock! I think...

Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

No, wastegate does not go to bov. Bov goes to intake manifold. Wastegate line goes from wastegate nipple to another boost source, that's why I was saying drill and tap an extr source on the j pipe :thumb:

You'll get it

Breezio69 · Jul 23, 2014

Just look over the pics I posted, look at your setup and it'll pop on like a light bulb

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

There is two nipples on the BOV though so I need to know what the lower nipple hooks to. I dont want to just drill and tap a hole just yet, I feel like the original owner should have already done this somewhere. hahaha I tried to hook the waste gate to the BOV lower nipple, I now know what knock is LOL

oops. So I need to hook the lower BOV nipple to... I dont know where yet... and the waste gate to a boost source, which means anywhere after the turbo and before the intake manifold, correct?

bizie · Jul 23, 2014

I don't know what the freak I'm doing.

I read that the lower nipple was a pressurized vacuum and you could run the wastegate vacuum to it. I also read where you leave that nipple open and tap into the J pipe.

This is the plastic nipple that came out of the brass plumbers T. Any idea where this originated? The brass nipple was on the disregarded brass fitting. I suppose I am just going to tap into my J pipe with this and hook the wastegate vacuum to that and then leave the lower BOV nipple open.

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Breezio69 · Jul 24, 2014

I'm at work, ill respond later when I'm home and get it figured out.

The plastic piece lools like an aftermarket tee

synthetek · Jul 24, 2014

The line with the Ts and brass thing needs to go directly to the upper port on your BOV nothing else should T off of that line remove the T and the brass fittings and connect just that line from the manifold to the BOV. Leave the lower port on the BOV open , don't cap it or run any vacuum to it.

Breezio69 · Jul 24, 2014

Your plan in your last post is exactly what you need to do. This will get rid of the tees, anymore potential leaks out of the tees or the brass thing. Sounds perfect.

Just make sure to take the j pipe off so no debris gets inside the piping and intercooler

:thumb:

bizie · Jul 24, 2014

So I just got done tapping the nipple into the j pipe.. Another sleepless night. I now have the nipple from the wastegate going to the J pipe nipple. The lower BOV nipple is left open. The boost pulled the normal 16lbs and then when the RPM got over 5k the boost shot up to over 20. I'm going to double check that the nipple is nice and tight. I'm not sure whats happening now, it almost seems that a boost controller in turning up the boost after 5k rpm.

Breezio69 · Jul 24, 2014

Just sounds like classic boost creep. Like I said a bit ago,this issue almost all of the time is the wastegate flapper hole.

If you search "dsm boost creep" you will find more than enough answers on it, and pictures/how to's on how it is fixed, or sometimes just alleviated a little bit, sometimes even the porting doesn't make it go away.

Aside from that, the positive thing is you got rid of that cluster or crap under the hood. And everything sounds like its working normally with no other problems than the boost creep. Which was still there before you started.

Pics?

Edit: and to add to this, you will notice in a boost creep search, this problem is almost exclusive to the 16g. Any turbo/wastegate setup can do this. But for some reason, the 16 g and the wategate hole that is too small is the plague of the dsm community.

bizie · Jul 24, 2014

I've been driving around trying to get the tune decent and I have noticed a few things. It quieted the BOV a lot, is that what makes the sound or is it the wastegate? My safc2 settings are more like the link breezio posted. It seems now that the tune is on the boost is running back at 20. Could just the tune change what psi you car will run? I only went on a short test ride so it was hard to tell. Thing is so loud and nasty everyone around here can hear me for miles and I've been screaming it for days now. Pics of what I did last night...

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The intake manifold line goes to the T but its pinched at the other end so I could use it as a extension. So now nothing it T'ed together.

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Marc Pacheco · Jul 24, 2014

If you are having trouble tuning bud I would say get a ecm link and wideband you cant go wrong with those 2. Plus check here and craigslist you can always find a good deal on a used one. Dsm's are the best when you get a good deal on stuff. I bought a dsm v3 for 400 way better then new with the ecu also. Wideband is prob the most HAVE to Have thing to tune these cars btw. And you can always get a good T3/T4 with a mitsu housing for about 400-500 that will pull 400 hp but upgrading the injectors will be a must. well anyways good luck.

bizie · Jul 24, 2014

Marc Pacheco said:
If you are having trouble tuning bud I would say get a ecm link and wideband you cant go wrong with those 2. Plus check here and craigslist you can always find a good deal on a used one. Dsm's are the best when you get a good deal on stuff. I bought a dsm v3 for 400 way better then new with the ecu also. Wideband is prob the most HAVE to Have thing to tune these cars btw. And you can always get a good T3/T4 with a mitsu housing for about 400-500 that will pull 400 hp but upgrading the injectors will be a must. well anyways good luck.

A t3/t4 is better then a 16g? That's what I have now, 16g with 550 injectors, cam, exhaust

So if I wanted to add psi to my turbo I would tighten the top screw on my BOV?

I will be getting a wideband as soon as I make some money.

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2G Hello, new to dsm tuning. Can you help tune my new ride?

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