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1G 300-350hp 14b Setup options opinions

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n00btalon

15+ Year Contributor
197
0
Aug 13, 2005
lebanon, Pennsylvania
Alright my goal is 300-350hp... im looking to stick with the 14b :D have mine rebuilt what not... what are some of my options to achieve this? simplicity is key... but at the same time im open to all options and opinions... i know some of you guys like the budget power and others like ''doing it the right way''. So what are some of my options to achieve this and what do you have to say?

right now...

1g Talon AWD

3'' Turbo back... (3'' high flow cat... apexi n1)

EVO 3 Manifold...

Boost Gauge...

Fidanza 2.1 Clutch and Fidanza Flywheel


thats pretty much what i have right now... :rocks:ROFL
 
I don't think you'd reach your goal with the 14b. If anything a 14b with full bolt-ons and a tune should net around mid-200's. If you don't want to go bigger turbo or at least a 16g, then you can always go bottle.
 
really? cause i swear theres some guys on here talking about hitting over 300hp to the wheels with a 14b? im not looking to the wheels... thats 300-350hp flywheel :D. this thing is gonna be my daily driver...
 
Well first off you are going to need DSMlink at the minimum because you will need to control timing, bigger fuel injectors maybe? possibly a fuel pump, and a fpr. Something to port your turbine housing, maybe even upgrade to a 16g housing that would be most efficent and its still technically a 14b. Also a manual boost controller, intercooler kit, maybe meth kit to really reach your goal of 300.

Basically even with all of this you are going to be hard pressed to even reach 300. If you are into simplicity and HAVE to stay with your 14b, then the easy thing to do is throw some nitrous oxide in there, which is pointless but it does get results. YouTube - T25 NOS Eclipse Dyno
 
Well first off you are going to need DSMlink at the minimum because you will need to control timing, bigger fuel injectors maybe? possibly a fuel pump, and a fpr. Something to port your turbine housing, maybe even upgrade to a 16g housing that would be most efficent and its still technically a 14b. Also a manual boost controller, intercooler kit, maybe meth kit to really reach your goal of 300.

Basically even with all of this you are going to be hard pressed to even reach 300. If you are into simplicity and HAVE to stay with your 14b, then the easy thing to do is throw some nitrous oxide in there, which is pointless but it does get results. YouTube - T25 NOS Eclipse Dyno


okay then lets just say i'd be willing to go to a 16g... what are your suggestions then :)
 
Well first off you are going to need DSMlink at the minimum because you will need to control timing, bigger fuel injectors maybe? possibly a fuel pump, and a fpr.

You could achieve this and much more by burning your own eproms for far less than the cost of link
Logger, cable- ~$50-75
Ecu socketing- $60
Chip burner- $40-100
Chips-$5/per
Tunerpro- $free
Research- $free

If you have a laptop, you can buy the ostrich emulator for ~$175 instead of the chip burner and tune in "real time" like link instead of having to take the ecu out to reburn chips
Welcome to www.moates.net! : Moates.Net

First Generation DSM EPROM Editing
TunerPro and TunerPro RT - Professional Automobile Tuning Software
DSM-Ecu Yahoo group

As far as the 14b goes: The compressor flow 34lb/min so its plenty capable of 300whp, which is a little over 350 crank hp. I would highly recommend a 7cm turbine housing from a 16g turbo or better yet an Evo3 turbine housing because it has a larger 2.5" exit. You will need to run 20psi+ to achieve this. I would probably recommend an E85 setup because it will allow you to run more timing and in turn make more power. Obviously you will need a larger fuel pump and injectors to do this as well as full fuel/timing control. The stock 1g timing curve is very aggressive and is knock happy above 15psi on pump without some sort of control.
A set of cams wouldn't hurt either
 
Noobtalon stated he wants to reach at least 300hp on the 14b which is obtainable on the 14b, but 300+ whp would be a goal that is hard to reach. If you're planning to use pump gas you'll probably need to use methanol injection and be boosting around 25 psi to reach 300 WHP, but for 300 HP 20+ should get your close if not there depending on the health of your engine. If you check the dyno records on the forum for 14b records shows the highest whp for 1g is 254.7 whp at 19.14 psi. That user's car, DSMcamaro, is a 91 talon tsi which is FWD. Your car being AWD you'll see a higher drive train loss for whp. You should check DSMcamaro's mod list and compare your list to his. I would suggest using a 16g since the price between a 14b and 16g isn't much. Since you already have the 14b I would give the 14b a try and see how it goes. I recommend porting your existing o2 housing to reduce the bottleneck restriction in your exhaust system, get meth injection system, FMIC, dsmlink or some other tuning/datalogging program, larger injectors, and 190lph fuel pump. Best of luck!
 
Seems like a good meth kit is key on smaller turbo's, not to gain power, but to reduce the loss of power by pump gas and hotter intake temps.
 
Noobtalon stated he wants to reach at least 300hp on the 14b which is obtainable on the 14b, but 300+ whp would be a goal that is hard to reach. If you're planning to use pump gas you'll probably need to use methanol injection and be boosting around 25 psi to reach 300 WHP, but for 300 HP 20+ should get your close if not there depending on the health of your engine. If you check the dyno records on the forum for 14b records shows the highest whp for 1g is 254.7 whp at 19.14 psi. That user's car, DSMcamaro, is a 91 talon tsi which is FWD. Your car being AWD you'll see a higher drive train loss for whp. You should check DSMcamaro's mod list and compare your list to his. I would suggest using a 16g since the price between a 14b and 16g isn't much. Since you already have the 14b I would give the 14b a try and see how it goes. I recommend porting your existing o2 housing to reduce the bottleneck restriction in your exhaust system, get meth injection system, FMIC, dsmlink or some other tuning/datalogging program, larger injectors, and 190lph fuel pump. Best of luck!

I'm looking at extremepsi... which meth kit would you suggest?
 
as far as the intake goes what would you suggest? a 2g with maftranslator or a blow-thru setup? Plus what is that one manual boost controller everyone talks about from ebay?
 
Why?? You are just going to over work the turbo and kill it. Get the proper parts for the proper HP that will make your car last longer :thumb:

Alright my goal is 300-350hp... im looking to stick with the 14b :D have mine rebuilt what not... what are some of my options to achieve this? simplicity is key... but at the same time im open to all options and opinions... i know some of you guys like the budget power and others like ''doing it the right way''. So what are some of my options to achieve this and what do you have to say?

right now...

1g Talon AWD

3'' Turbo back... (3'' high flow cat... apexi n1)

EVO 3 Manifold...

Boost Gauge...

Fidanza 2.1 Clutch and Fidanza Flywheel


thats pretty much what i have right now... :rocks:ROFL
 
I'm way late to this thread but I can definitely give some input if the guy is still interested.

The 14b*on a good running engine* can pretty easily drop more than 250 HP at the wheels.

I will use my car as the example.

With, K&N, MAF mods, MBC @ 21 psi, 2.5" downpipe, 3" cat-back, ported 2G manifold, original 14b turbine housing and O2 housing, and fuel pump, NO FUEL CONTROL or CHIP the car put down 265.9 HP and 282 Torque. Less than $1000 in mods. My 1/4 time was 12.02@112, YES the car had a decent amount of weight out. This was using VP C16 fuel.

I went to an O2 dump, played with timing, 3" downpipe, and added 550 injectors and an AFC and horsepower numbers started to walk up into the 280 area.

I'll jump forward to the current set up:

2G MAF, FP Race Manifold, Extreme S/S O2 housing with Tial 40mm gate, ACT Streetlight flywheel, EVO FMIC, lightweight crank, water pump, alternator pullies, APexi Super AFC 2, and Driveshaft shop aluminium driveshaft.

At 16 psi the car baselined at 285 HP at the wheels and 290 Torque. Back up at 21 psi, the car put down 295 HP and 337 Torque. Uncorrected, it was 304 HP and 348 Torque.

Estimate horsepower at the crank is about 359.

The car has run 11.59 @ 116.85.....YES the car is VERY light now, about 2595 lbs. with me in it.

ALSO, my engine is BONE STOCK original with 80,600 miles on the clock. It still has balance shafts and all.


My feeling on this is that you don't need GM MAF, or DSMlink, or a meth kit to make pretty awesome power on the 14b. With pump gas, sure, power output may be down, if you're looking to make power on a daily driver, but 250 at the ground should be a walk in the park on pump gas.

I would agree that DSMlink would help my car make more power. Maybe going to blow through would as well, but, I can't comment on that.

I have never made more power on the 14b going over 21 psi. And between 16 and 21 psi there isnt much more horsepower to be made, but LOTS of torque.

I've always kept it simple. And simple on the 14b can churn out some pretty awesome power!

Unfortuantely, the average weight of the DSM can not always demonstrate how great the turbo is doing when it's so small. And, for me that's where the weight reduction comes in. It's tough to create a great power to weight ratio in a full weight DSM on the stock turbo.

My car sits at about 6.49 pounds per horsepower.

At stock weight with the same power=8.66 pounds per horsepower....big difference.

That's my .02

PS--oversize intercooler piping and modifiying the inlet/outlet of the factory SMIC to 2.25" proved to do ablsolutely nothing by way of performance in my case. I say go straight for the FMIC, the car picked up quite a bit of power with that.

The highest HP at the wheels that I know of with the 14b is 324.....there is only one other out there that is higher, but, I don't know the number....it is a FWD car.
 
Last edited:
Wow Phil1320, you give me some hope....very impressive.

Glad I could shed a bit of light. A good running 14b car at full weight should be able to run 12.4-12.7 with decent driving. If you go the weight reduction, no daily driver route, I won't say the Sky is the limit, but there's limits that I haven't explored yet for sure. I'll be back at the track Friday the 16th. I will post results in the Drag Strip forum here if you are interested.

Take care and good luck with your goals!:hellyeah:
 
The 14b is a very capable turbo. ~270whp is obtainable for the regular Joe granted a healthy turbo and motor. I would be looking at a decent FMIC, larger injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, keydiver chip, wideband, SAFC, and 3inch exhaust, and an MBC.

Let the Keydiver chip do most of your work for you, then fine tune your AFRs with the wideband/SAFC combination. You could run 17-18psi, basically the most before you are way to far out of the efficiency range of the 14b. That should net you your goals. If it doesn't, and you are dead-set on sticking with a 14b, you could add to that a water/meth injection kit. Due to it's charge cooling effects, you could run a lot more boost and still be within efficiency range of the 14b. I would say spraying 50/50 water/meth on the previously mentioned setup and running somewhere around 20-22psi, you could see 300whp and have a really nasty street setup with full boost before 3k.
 
  • Evo 3 turbine housing (unported) = :thumb:
  • 272 combo for the extra topend pull
  • Larger injectors a must (at least 660cc)
  • FMIC
  • Upgrade the fuel pump (with the rewire)
  • Set boost @ low 20s
 
This is all awesome to read and also gives me hope to have fun with my 14b while getting supporting mods to go 'bigger' down the road.

Thanks for the guys putting in their .02 on their 14b setup.

I'm just getting around to getting LINK. My car is bone stock otherwise other than stock.
 
This is all awesome to read and also gives me hope to have fun with my 14b while getting supporting mods to go 'bigger' down the road.

Thanks for the guys putting in their .02 on their 14b setup.

I'm just getting around to getting LINK. My car is bone stock otherwise other than stock.
I hit 280 hp on my 14b on E85. It's definitely do-able.

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I'm going to try and max mine out before switching it out, should have plenty of capability after the Intercooler and other things I'm doing currently. I've run it as high as 21psi, no Dyno numbers tho, and my 1/4 times weren't great as my knock sensor was sending out a static 6* knock anywhere over throttle/rpm link settings. Believe the best I got was a 13.8, don't recall the mph, and I can't find my slips.

I know I'll be interested to see how it does!
 
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