Forced Performance Manifold Group Buy #2

[LaserAWD]

I got the color change as well:



Mine was also coated. The color changes look just like what happened to my buddies jet hot coated headers that he put on his 72 BB Chevelle. After the first startup they changed to the nice rainbow tint a bit and stayed that way.

I'm assuming this is not a problem and the manifold is actually coated.

As for a review, my Evo 3 16G seems to actually hit a bit harder with this manifold compared to the evo 3 manifold that I had. I also seemed to have gained some spool, 4th gear pulls starting at 2k used to get me full boost, 20psi, by 3600 rpms. I now do the same test on the same stretch of road and I get full spool below 3500 rpms. It could be the weather but I pretty much did it on back to back days. It has also changed the topend as I'm now running a good bit leaner on the wideband up top. I think it complements the JM Fab SMIM I got a couple of weeks ago very well.

[Talontsi96]

Hmm. Keep these photos and reviews coming guys.... The change in color on the coating is not all that nice.. I have had many pieces ceramic coated before and they all change their color a bit. Like black turns to more of a dark grey, silver coating likes to change to gray as well. I have never seen this bronze coating before that FP uses but its color change looks weird....

[Gamble97]

I really like how mine turned out.

[blcknspo0ln]

Here's a writeup that I just submitted. As for performance, I didn't have a before and after log, but spoolup and butt-dyno report that it performs very similar to my tubular DNP manifold in terms of spoolup and response.
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This one is pretty simple. You only need a handful of tools to do this and about an hours worth of time.

1. here's my old dnp manifold:


2. Comparison (dnp vs. ported 2g vs. fp)






3. unbolt your intake pipe and remove from car.

4. unbolt the four bolts holding your turbo to your manifold.

5. unbolt the 9 12mm nuts that hold the manifold to your head.

6. If need be, check your threads and studs of the 9 OEM studs on the head. If they are stripped, wobbly, etc, this is the best time to rethread them. My choice would be an 8x1.25mm tap or a metric helicoil (depending on how bad the threads are).



7. Reinstall your manifold gasket. I chose to put copper RTV on there for good measure.

8. Mock up the manifold on the head/manifold studs and put your new OEM turbo bolts into the manifold and mock up your turbo. REMEMBER TO USE NICKEL or COPPER ANTISEIZE!!!

9. Fit everything up and tighten her down.

You should be good to go!

[pboglio]

I used copper RTV as well on the head/manifold connection. Worked great. I also used it on the manifold/turbine housing connection. It disintegrated the copper rtv at this location due to the high temps.

My final thoughts on the manifold. I thought the manifold wasn't getting that hot but after direct comparison to the stock 2g manifold and heatshield, its quite a bit hotter. I'm gonna venture an educated guess and say the underhood temps must have creeped up a bit and accounted for the moderate loss of power (10 h.p. or so) compared to the stock manifold and heat shield.

As to why I didn't see a power increase swapping to the manifold? Well, I've done about 10 datalogs in the last couple days, with the FP manifold, 2g manifold, removed the VPC and it got me thinking.

I went back and calculated what my power "should" be given my boost setting, ambient temps, rpms where my horsepower usually peaks, engine displacement etc. I then used DSMLink to actually "measure" the h.p. on all the different setups. Both were in pretty close agreement, so I kind of have an idea where I should be for horsepower. The only way I could possibly make more power on my current turbo is by upping the boost or dropping intake manifold temps, thats it.

The only thing the manifold can do is increase the volumetric efficiency of the motor by reducing backpressure/reversion somewhat. On my small T28, the difference in backpressure/reversion between the FP manifold and stock 2g manifold has got to be pretty small in comparison to the restriction of my small turbine wheel/housing. In a way I'm V.E. limited by the turbo's hot side, not by the exhaust manifold/collector.

Since the manifold didn't even produce higher boost levels based on what I later noted, there is no way it could have produced more power, which is exactly what I measured.

In a nutshell, this manifold probably needs a good heat shield and a free flowing turbine section to show a power difference.

[EnticivEclipse]

ordered mine yesterday and expect it to come in next monday. I will be bolting this on an evo3

[1stblackawdtsi]

Your coated manifolds are changing colors because you are not tempering the coating. You have to slowly heat the manifold in cycles to properly seat the coating. Same thing happened with a set of ceramic coated headers on a buddies car. Then I put a set on an engine on the dyno and heated them in cycles, and they never changed at all. But hey if you like the look its all good then.

[LaserAWD]

So is that bad for the coating? Or will the coating work the same and just be a different color?

I bolted mine on, let the car warm up in the garage while I checked for exhaust leaks and once it was up to temp I took it out and let her rip.

[Robert@FP]

I noticed a few of you guys making the observation that your 16g and T28 or other small turbos are not making any more HP with the FPRace manifold than with the stock manifold. I suppose the reason for this may not be obvious, but it is pretty simple. If you have a 35lb/min turbo on your DSM and it is giving you the 35lb/min of flow already, changing the header isn't going to have much impact on power output. The only area it can impact performance of is the shift recovery and spool up, and I have seen datalogs going both ways; showing both slight improvement and slight suffering of this parameter when compared to ported Evo3 manifolds.

So if you already have a ported evo3 manifold, I don't think you will see any night and day difference by changing to the FPRace manifold. The differences will be subtle. Larger turbos such as 50 trims, Green models, FP3052, FP3065, FP 3565, FP3575 etc where the total system mass flow is large, above 50lb/min, is where the power benefits become obvious.

Additionally, if you have a cracked and unported stock manifold feeding your 16g turbo, swapping to the FPrace manifold will make a huge difference in performance.

Coatings: Yes, the coating does shift color when used. Typically resulting in a blue-ish silver rainbow sort of look, just like the pictures posted. I never really considered the cosmetic characteristics of the coating to be honest. I was only looking for a coating that would stay in place and reflect heat as much as possible. So if that had ended up being bright pink, you guys would have all had bright pink manifolds. The "how hot is the grill" test of standing in front of the engine compartment with your hands out towards the manifold can be very misleading. You can easily be off by 5-100 or more degree F with this time tested heat sensing technique. Highly subjective. And I hope none of you really hope to grab hold of the manifold aftr driving the car- it will burn the crap out of you.

The coating does reflect heat, and the uncoated ones radiate more heat than the coated ones. I don't think saying "it feels hotter" or "it feels cooler" is a very constructive observation to make. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure what a proper method for measuring average under-hood temperatures would really consist of. Perhaps some sort of EGT or similar probe mounted in the air near the radiator both before and after the manifold swap would allow some sort of accurate data to be collected, assuming that the data was collected on similarly ambient temp days and the car was operated in the same manner in both data sets. But nobody is going to bother to spend money and time doing such a thorough and accurate comparison. It's a lot easier to say "Ugg, it feel hot" or "Ugg it feel cold" in your best caveman voice. Just my .02 and some food for thought.

AVAILABILITY:

There are still some manifold available, both plain and coated. Currently there is no restriction on how many one customer can purchase. Several have asked if it's ok to buy 2 or 4 of them. Of course you may buy 4 if you like!

[Talontsi96]

Thanks for chiming in here Robert....
I can't wait to get mine and test the radiant temperature with my palms after a run....

[blcknspo0ln]

Originally Posted by Robert@FP

AVAILABILITY:

There are still some manifold available, both plain and coated. Currently there is no restriction on how many one customer can purchase. Several have asked if it's ok to buy 2 or 4 of them. Of course you may buy 4 if you like!

Robert,
As someone mentioned before, have you or FP ever decided on doing a back-to-back dyno comparison to say, a stock unported 2g manifold? I understand that the power/spoolup difference is greatly varied depending on the pre-change manifold being compared against, but it would be nice to see a solid dyno or log showing the difference in the FP race manifold and justify the upgrade.

I'm actually surprised most are just taking this with a grain of salt (as with me). I guess FP's reputation proceeds them. I'm not comparing vendors, but does anyone remember when SBR came out with their cast manifold?

Thoughts?

[Gamble97]

I love mine, now if FP can make an SMIM for the same price, I'd be all over it

[marcmsj]

Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln

I'm actually surprised most are just taking this with a grain of salt (as with me). I guess FP's reputation proceeds them. I'm not comparing vendors, but does anyone remember when SBR came out with their cast manifold?

Thoughts?

Agreed. I already bought the manifold but solid dyno numbers would be nice. Both with small and big turbos.

[esoung]

Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln

Robert,
As someone mentioned before, have you or FP ever decided on doing a back-to-back dyno comparison to say, a stock unported 2g manifold? I understand that the power/spoolup difference is greatly varied depending on the pre-change manifold being compared against, but it would be nice to see a solid dyno or log showing the difference in the FP race manifold and justify the upgrade.

I second that. It would be pleasing to have comparison dynos showing what you stated that it holds-up to par with the tubular manifold instead bad mouthing people that are asking and questioning. In no way doing research about the manifold like you state to me to do is going to prove to myself what you say is true.

[DoyoFCT]

its well worth the upgrade especially with the group buy price. Have you ever looked at a cheap tubular header? or even a dnp? the flanges and ports are pretty gross ive never been impressed with them at all. sure maybe a full out race header is going to outflow this but you're also going to pay 700+ im sure if you guys just give it time there will be plenty of dyno results from this manifold. I think its awesome, and matches up so nicely with the FP30 housing

[Strm Trpr]

I'm so stoked, I just got off the phone with Amber and mine is shipping out today...

[Talontsi96]

I agree that some sort of dyno results or other quantifiable numbers would be nice. It is a very nice looking piece but I don't consider anything an upgrade untill it actually makes more power. Thats just me though and hopefully some dyno numbers will follow on this piece showing how much of an upgrade it is...

[DoyoFCT]

here's a couple pics of mine, its sick..



doing a little test fit, im hoping my dump tube direction will be ok.. my alt is relocated in the back so i should have a clean shot out the bumper.. i hope...

[Talontsi96]

Mine showed up today.. looks like a very nice quality pice. However, the exhaust manifold gasket is damaged due to poor positioning in the box. Its folded up on #1 and #3 runner edges. I'm wondering if FP can send me a new gasket, this one is toast...