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Turbo System Tech: 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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Old 11-27-2012, 08:41 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Is this 1,100 Turbo Upgrade Worth It?


Well its decision time again and I need to do it asap. Short and simple, with kelford 272s, springs and retainers, all supporting mod, would it be worth upgrading to the XL Green from my 05h 20g? I know the XL is better turbo, but is the gains worth the 1,100 bucks? I know its up to me, but what would you do? Looking for 400whp on pump, meth/water if need for knock.

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Old 11-27-2012, 10:40 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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for the price is not worth it in the dsm world, i would go bigger for that price.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:42 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadepro22 View Post
Well its decision time again and I need to do it asap. Short and simple, with kelford 272s, springs and retainers, all supporting mod, would it be worth upgrading to the XL Green from my 05h 20g? I know the XL is better turbo, but is the gains worth the 1,100 bucks? I know its up to me, but what would you do? Looking for 400whp on pump, meth/water if need for knock.
Get an HX40 for that price BRAND NEW with a BEP T3 or Bolt on and make 69+lb a min problem solved.


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Old 11-27-2012, 10:44 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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Stick with a 20g..Or holset, you have the mods.Even tho you will have to move some stuff around for the holset but..Bigger injectors, and running corn would definatly get you over that 400 hp hump..

If you add meth,well I'm sure you know the answer.


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Old 11-27-2012, 10:50 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bud92gsx View Post
Stick with a 20g..Or holset, you have the mods.Even tho you will have to move some stuff around for the holset but..Bigger injectors, and running corn would definatly get you over that 400 hp hump..

If you add meth,well I'm sure you know the answer.
Bud, cut the crap and go Holset too


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Old 11-27-2012, 10:51 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by urbansmoker1 View Post
Get an HX40 for that price BRAND NEW with a BEP T3 or Bolt on and make 69+lb a min problem solved.
Where can new hx turbos be found, and what's your spool time?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:08 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansmoker1 View Post
Bud, cut the crap and go Holset too
Mother F.


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Old 11-27-2012, 11:09 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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Where can new hx turbos be found, and what's your spool time?
Um directly from cummins, or get in contact with justin. i see 22 psi by 4k and the turbo isn't even awake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud92gsx View Post
Mother F.
Hehehehehehehehehehe seriously though. If you got one, you would wonder why you didn't earlier, plus you cant beat the spool sound of a Holset.


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Last edited by urbansmoker1; 11-27-2012 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping" within a 24 hour period Tips on avoiding the auto-merge feature - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_bumping
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:17 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Justin did a great job on my 14b..This little bastard screams..I have not had it over 16 psi tho yet..

YET..

But when I do, I bet I see 22 psi, under 4k.I'm not gonna wai till 4k for my turbo to spool..Call me a weirdo, i'm used to it.


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Old 11-27-2012, 11:21 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansmoker1 View Post
22 psi ..and the turbo isn't even awake.
That's part of the holset downside with respect to the typical street dsm.

With a 400whp goal why not run a 20g?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:22 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bud92gsx View Post
Justin did a great job on my 14b..This little bastard screams..I have not had it over 16 psi tho yet..

YET..

But when I do, I bet I see 22 psi, under 4k.I'm not gonna wai till 4k for my turbo to spool..Call me a weirdo, i'm used to it.
Just think about it this way, lag= fuel Ecomomy on the highway, and it spools in 1 and half a seconds when your going through the gears.


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Old 11-27-2012, 11:26 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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I'm an auto.So auto matic NLTS.No recovering boost issues..

Fuel economy, who the hell cares about that.

I went from the stock 17/18 mpg to about 22/23 with a shift box if you really want to know.


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Old 11-27-2012, 11:28 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UofACATS View Post

With a 400whp goal why not run a 20g?
I have tdo5h 20g, but I doubt ill get there.

What do yall think about a hx40 with hx35 turbine wheel with bolton housing? Seen one in classified.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:51 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spadepro22 View Post
I have tdo5h 20g, but I doubt ill get there.

What do yall think about a hx40 with hx35 turbine wheel with bolton housing? Seen one in classified.
You will not get 400 AWHP on pump gas with a 20g... well i don't think so anyway. Im running my HX40 in the bolt on housing and its great, if you wanted 400 hp it makes it easily on pump you will just have to deal with some lag. Of course being the power hungry guy i am, ill be going T3 sometime in the future. I'm not satisfied with 400, need more boost for 600!

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That's part of the holset downside with respect to the typical street dsm.
How is that a down side? It makes 400WHP on pump gas when barely pushing it( not even awake yet)... That seems like an upside to me. The turbo has a WHOLE lot more in it. I'm confident i could get 500awhp on pump gas if i just turned up the boost and messed with timing a little. I only made 400 on the dyno cause i had some crank pulley and cam gear issues and didnt wanna push it too far until the issues were fixed, and now that they are ill be going up to 27psi and up from there. Everyone says they are worried about lag, but i daily drive my car and believe me 4k rpm comes up fast and your already at 20+ psi, I probably saw 27 when i was running it with LOW timing causing slower spool, by 4300. I just cant say enough good things about the cummins turbos.

Edit: i just realized you were asking about a hybrid Holset, i think there was bad reviews on that being that the HX35 shaft wasn't really meant for that big of a compressor or something. But id ask Turboglen he runs one and seems to like it got good numbers also.


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Last edited by urbansmoker1; 11-27-2012 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping" within a 24 hour period Tips on avoiding the auto-merge feature - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_bumping
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:47 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by urbansmoker1 View Post
How is that a down side? It makes 400WHP on pump gas when barely pushing it( not even awake yet)... That seems like an upside to me. The turbo has a WHOLE lot more in it. I'm confident i could get 500awhp on pump gas if i just turned up the boost and messed with timing a little. I only made 400 on the dyno cause i had some crank pulley and cam gear issues and didnt wanna push it too far until the issues were fixed, and now that they are ill be going up to 27psi and up from there.
It's a down side to run a turbo out of its efficiency range. Nobody is doubting the ability of a HX40 to make 400 or 500 whp. This fact doesn't always make it the best option. "27psi and up from there" isn't an option on the typical street dsm. I'm not saying they don't have value as a great bang for the buck turbo, I'm saying they need to run higher boost, comparatively, to make the power they should.

I say push the 20g on meth first.

OP: Just looking at your avi and profile, you can also free up additional power with a retune on speed density. The car would then be close to 400whp, and will have a large, useable powerband.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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While I agree with the Holset route, another option would be turbo lab. He can upgrade your 20g to a gtx3076 wheel, making it comparable to the green xl that FP offers for roughly half the price. He even can go larger if you want but the 3076 compressor is about the most you're 20g turbine will hold up to.

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Old 11-27-2012, 04:21 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spadepro22 View Post
What do yall think about a hx40 with hx35 turbine wheel with bolton housing? Seen one in classified.
Terrible wheel/housing combination. I'd rather see a HX40 turbine wheel with a HX35 compressor....at least you'll know you aren't going to hit an airflow wall.


Plenty of good pump gas turbos out there. The HY35's been over 500 on pump gas but requires a T3 manifold and custom o2 housing....but when you only spend $250 on the turbo, it allows a lot of room for additional mods like that.

You can't think quick-spooling/big-power/pump gas. One of those three things are going to have to go in order to reach your goal. You can have a quick-spooling pump gas turbo, but it won't make big power. You can have a big-power pump gas turbo, but it won't spool fast. You can have a quick-spooling big-power turbo but you're not going to run 93. Comprendō?


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Old 11-27-2012, 04:39 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JusMX141 View Post
You can't think quick-spooling/big-power/pump gas. One of those three things are going to have to go in order to reach your goal. You can have a quick-spooling pump gas turbo, but it won't make big power. You can have a big-power pump gas turbo, but it won't spool fast. You can have a quick-spooling big-power turbo but you're not going to run 93. Comprendō?
C'mon Justin you are a miracle worker. Give us a quick spooling, pump gas turbo that can make big power! lol.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:12 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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XL Green- $1,100

More airflow potential at 59 lb/min. Slower spool due to size.

Holset HX35- $250
BEP .55 Housing- $250
Punishment EWG O2- Already owned
Cams and supporting mods- Already owned
Oil feed and drain setup- About $150

So for around $650 you'll have a faster spooling turbo with over 50 lbs/min airflow potential. Sure, that's less than the Green XL. But your only shooting for 400hp, your saving over $400, and you'll have a turbo that is just as bolt-on.


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Old 11-27-2012, 05:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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XL Green- $1,100
Or a regular FP HTA Green


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