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Turbo System Tech: 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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Old 09-24-2012, 05:43 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black_gst View Post
i dont think a .70 would make too much difference for you in this case
I am dropping from 35 psi to 30 psi in 3rd gear by 7500 rpms. I am still maintaining 53-54 lb/min, but I would like my boost to stay constant and maybe pick up a couple lb/min. If that is achievable then it would probably be worth the effort to go from .63 to .70. I can sell my existing housing and recoup a good bit of my money on the upgrade.

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Old 09-24-2012, 09:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My1GLaser View Post
I am dropping from 35 psi to 30 psi in 3rd gear by 7500 rpms. I am still maintaining 53-54 lb/min, but I would like my boost to stay constant and maybe pick up a couple lb/min. If that is achievable then it would probably be worth the effort to go from .63 to .70. I can sell my existing housing and recoup a good bit of my money on the upgrade.
Have you tried putting a boost line on the top of the wastegate?

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Old 09-24-2012, 10:43 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWD4G63 View Post
Have you tried putting a boost line on the top of the wastegate?
Doesn't help. Exhaust gas is blowing the WG open... Probably have somewhere near 45+psi of drive acting on a 1.5"+ piston (valve), the wg valve is producing about 80lbs of force. Assuming you have your WG which has a 2.5" diaphragm sprung to open at 25psi, the spring is exerting 122lbs of force holding the WG closed.

See the problem here? As the drive pressure rises it takes pressure off the spring, letting the diaphragm open the gate with less boost. In fact at high RPM where you have 45psi of drive, it only takes about 10psi to open the gate. Obviously this is a worst case scenario, and it's usually not this bad. But I logged my drive pressure, and used this method to figure out what my boost should be, and it wasn't very far off from what it really was.

Finally putting the boost source on top only makes the spring stiffer. So it really doesn't help. It does work much better than the old school ball+spring.

What I've done to help boost fall of was:
1. limit the travel of the WG, so initiate a "boost creep" situation. Kinda works, but not all the well.
2. Use a bsc solenoid to limit the signal to the wga. I did that and tuned my duty cycle curve to my calculations and drive pressure, and it was almost perfect the first try!

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Old 09-24-2012, 10:50 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastarddsm View Post
1. limit the travel of the WG, so initiate a "boost creep" situation. Kinda works, but not all the well.
2. Use a bsc solenoid to limit the signal to the wga. I did that and tuned my duty cycle curve to my calculations and drive pressure, and it was almost perfect the first try!
Right on man, I'm planning on doing the latter myself, but I wasn't sure what kind of boost controller he was using, so I thought I'd recommend that first.

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Old 09-24-2012, 11:00 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #45 (permalink)
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What's the next step up from the BEP.70a/r for the HX40?
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:06 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #46 (permalink)
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Not sure on that one, although I better have something up my sleeve when Dave maxes out the Bullseye housing....and I'm sure that's going to happen sooner rather than later.

I've given thought to a .82 T3 housing, but judging by how the .70 Bullseye housing has performed thus far it makes me wonder if it's really a .70 a/r or not. I'd sure hate to do a ton of machining on a .82 housing just to have it perform worse.

The driving force behind the .82 option for me has been the success of that particular housing on the FP 3794.


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Old 09-25-2012, 12:37 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusMX141 View Post
Not sure on that one, although I better have something up my sleeve when Dave maxes out the Bullseye housing....and I'm sure that's going to happen sooner rather than later.

I've given thought to a .82 T3 housing, but judging by how the .70 Bullseye housing has performed thus far it makes me wonder if it's really a .70 a/r or not. I'd sure hate to do a ton of machining on a .82 housing just to have it perform worse.

The driving force behind the .82 option for me has been the success of that particular housing on the FP 3794.
Hit me up when you guys need the machining, i;LL DONATE the time and work on this project for you guys. i've been following it so long i'd be glad to contribute, I still wish i could remember the member's name that i did the TS .84 a/r t4 housing for but it seemed like it would be the bee's knees as far as spool and outflowing the .63 a/r t3 single scroll i run on the same turbo (i put an H1c/hx40 turbine into it and it fil really well)

Let me know and if i finally remember this guys screen name or find the claim papers from his box arriving here torn open and missing a housing i'll post or shoot him a PM/email asking him to chime in here`


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Old 09-25-2012, 12:39 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #48 (permalink)
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Will-do, Glenn. Much-appreciated!


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Old 09-25-2012, 06:41 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #49 (permalink)
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Regarding the BEP housing, it very well could be a ".70A/R" housing, but it depends on where they took the centroid vs. where Garrett measures from.

That's why there is a range on the A/R equivalence for housings that are only listed by nozzle area (cm^2)


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Old 10-02-2012, 08:35 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #50 (permalink)
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who has results for a T3 .70 BEP HX35? how does the HX35 do in that housing is it too small?


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Old 10-02-2012, 11:13 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #51 (permalink)
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who has results for a T3 .70 BEP HX35?
Wish I did...I never really got to push the .70 HX35 on anyone's car locally. Dave had one prior to the HX40, but the car was also full-weight with a tired old 6-bolt running 28psi on pump gas.


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Old 10-02-2012, 11:22 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #52 (permalink)
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Wish I did...I never really got to push the .70 HX35 on anyone's car locally. Dave had one prior to the HX40, but the car was also full-weight with a tired old 6-bolt running 28psi on pump gas.
Haha I love listening to the exploits of talondave and justin. They are like the dynamic duo. One thing I can't figure out though, are you the Robin to his Batman, or the Morgan Freeman to his Batman? I need a wingman to manage my mods, damnit. Any volunteers?


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Old 10-02-2012, 11:25 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #53 (permalink)
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Wish I did...I never really got to push the .70 HX35 on anyone's car locally. Dave had one prior to the HX40, but the car was also full-weight with a tired old 6-bolt running 28psi on pump gas.
What about the results thus far, does it seemed pretty well matched?


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Old 10-02-2012, 12:20 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #54 (permalink)
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Haha I love listening to the exploits of talondave and justin. They are like the dynamic duo. One thing I can't figure out though, are you the Robin to his Batman, or the Morgan Freeman to his Batman? I need a wingman to manage my mods, damnit. Any volunteers?
Haven't really thought of it like that....I guess I'm the one who puts the turbos together for him and he bolts them on the car and makes it happen, so we complement each other quite well.

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What about the results thus far, does it seemed pretty well matched?
Seems to be the best of the single-scroll housings, yes. Like I said I have no hard proof aside from Dave's old setup plus another local guy here with a stock 6-bolt running 25psi who has trapped 124.5mph so far.


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Old 10-18-2012, 11:24 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #55 (permalink)
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I might be interested in a T4 TS housing that doesn't way a #### ton for a HX35 and 40.

I didn't like how heavy these damn things are but right now I'm looking at a 5858 and then going to a 6266 after so i figured maybe i could test these holset things.

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Old 01-10-2013, 12:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #56 (permalink)
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7 blade hx35 i had tried .55 .63 .70 .82 custom and for me the .70 spool considerably fast (.82 slow it down a lot) and let me run 34 psi without dropping.

How is the .70 T3 working for you guys?
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:43 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #57 (permalink)
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Its working great for me. I am currently replacing the HG cause I started pushing coolant. I haven't had it to the track yet with this housing, but hopefully soon. I ran the .55 .63 & .70 A/R also.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #58 (permalink)
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Can someone build a T3. 82 to fit a HX40?
I'm looking to pickup an HX40 in the future and I'd like to use it with either a T3 .70 that has proved itself (thanks dave) or T3 .82.

Last edited by JusMX141; 01-10-2013 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Let's try to avoid turning this into a WTB thread.

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Old 01-11-2013, 04:06 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #59 (permalink)
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12CM vs. .70AR.


So are some of you saying that you think the B.E.P. T3 open scroll .70 AR. Hx40 turbine house would out flow the Holset T3 T.S. 12cm if it were fitted to a HX40? Isn't 12cm apx. .85 AR.?
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:03 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #60 (permalink)
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There isn't a 12cm ts hx40 they are like 18cm+ i believe.


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