mangina are you serious? I'm not going to get into the whole internet "our parts are better than their parts" bs that proves nothing and makes vendors look like squabbling schoolchildren. This usually isn't a problem on dsmtuners, vendors do not jump into threads about competing vendors parts claiming that their parts are better, cheaper, stronger etc., its unprofessional and gives the appearance of being slightly desperate.
I have at no point gotten into the thread about your kits and expect the same amount of respect from you. If you take issue with this please feel free to pm me and we can get together and discuss it further.
Tim
Not looking to start any drama friend
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedinSoFla
Yea, definitely a desperate move by Mangina. You already have your thread about "your kits" so I don't see the need to advertise your product in here. Unprofessional if you ask me but that's just my opinion.
I just wanted to clear up a few inconsistencies that were being thrown around when our kits were being compared. I saw "our" kits named and I felt like it was ok to post.
Personally I think the consumer should be able to have all the info they need to make an educated decision. I just wanted to throw the pros & cons of both out there so people would be able to make that decision.
Do you have any facts or info to back up your statement?
What? Do I need to prove that bad welds and poor quality coupler will blow under pressure? You can take Magnus' old style SMIM if you want. 25 psi and the welds blew. Below is a picture of what happens when you don't use good quality couplers.
Really, are you actually calling me out to provide facts on whether the quality of an item will depend if it'll fail or not? Or are you just assuming that I was calling you out on shitty couples and welds? Which I wasn't by the way nor did I state it indirectly in any way. It was a general statement to the boys who believe the less couplers there are, the less chance of boost leaks. You could have a million couplers, clamps, and welds but as long as the welds have full penetration and the couplers are of silicon couplers with at least 4 plies and good clamps, you'll never develop a leak.
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Tim
Grace: 1998 Eclipse GST
Daisy: 1990 Jeep XJ
Originally Posted by Crimsondragon
What? Do I need to prove that bad welds and poor quality coupler will blow under pressure? You can take Magnus' old style SMIM if you want. 25 psi and the welds blew. Below is a picture of what happens when you don't use good quality couplers.
Really, are you actually calling me out to provide facts on whether the quality of an item will depend if it'll fail or not? Or are you just assuming that I was calling you out on shitty couples and welds? Which I wasn't by the way nor did I state it indirectly in any way. It was a general statement to the boys who believe the less couplers there are, the less chance of boost leaks. You could have a million couplers, clamps, and welds but as long as the welds have full penetration and the couplers are of silicon couplers with at least 4 plies and good clamps, you'll never develop a leak.
^HAHAHAHAHAHA^ OUch
I wanna see less talk and more actions from the vendors . Maybe a price drop will sway my opinion on which one to buy?
What? Do I need to prove that bad welds and poor quality coupler will blow under pressure? You can take Magnus' old style SMIM if you want. 25 psi and the welds blew. Below is a picture of what happens when you don't use good quality couplers.
Really, are you actually calling me out to provide facts on whether the quality of an item will depend if it'll fail or not? Or are you just assuming that I was calling you out on shitty couples and welds? Which I wasn't by the way nor did I state it indirectly in any way. It was a general statement to the boys who believe the less couplers there are, the less chance of boost leaks. You could have a million couplers, clamps, and welds but as long as the welds have full penetration and the couplers are of silicon couplers with at least 4 plies and good clamps, you'll never develop a leak.
Looks like I took your previous statement out of context.
Do you have any facts or info to back up your statement?
Pipes are aluminum, not the stainless steel your kit comes with. Beaded ends, 4ply couplers, t-bolt clamps that don't strip. I've owned both kits, I prefer the Punishment kit. No hacking to the actual car either which is nice with the PR kit.
Also, for people that are worried about cooling issues? Never heard of this with a FMIC kit. My car is performing awesome with this, zero cooling issues.
-Scott
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95 AWD - Sold
92 AWD Hx52 - Sold
2003 Evo VIII
Pipes are aluminum, not the stainless steel your kit comes with. Beaded ends, 4ply couplers, t-bolt clamps that don't strip. I've owned both kits, I prefer the Punishment kit. No hacking to the actual car either which is nice with the PR kit.
Also, for people that are worried about cooling issues? Never heard of this with a FMIC kit. My car is performing awesome with this, zero cooling issues.
-Scott
WOW... Finally, someone that answers the questions . Thank You!
JUST TO RECAP:
NO COOLING ISSUES
NO HACKING
SOLID COUPLERS
ALUMINUM PIPING
BEADED ENDS
BTW: DSMj89Browski from fla that is a baller and helps everyone... You should ad a Poll for this thread.
*****Just a note, there will be one vote for each that doesnt count because the vendors are obviously going to vote for themselves
Pipes are aluminum, not the stainless steel your kit comes with. Beaded ends, 4ply couplers, t-bolt clamps that don't strip. I've owned both kits, I prefer the Punishment kit. No hacking to the actual car either which is nice with the PR kit.
Also, for people that are worried about cooling issues? Never heard of this with a FMIC kit. My car is performing awesome with this, zero cooling issues.
-Scott
Our pipes are aluminum, not stainless steel with beaded ends, 3 ply silicone, & stainless steel t-bolt clamps that don't strip. If you purchased the ssauto kit please don't assume it's the same kit we sell because it isn't.
I highly doubt there would be any cooling issues with the PR kit considering the core size. 3" cores have been used on dsms for years without an issue so that really shouldn't deter anyone from purchasing this kit.
End result, +8hp +9tq from greddy to pr. These aren't exact numbers as I don't have the dyno plots here. Test were done @ 25psi on a 14b.
My two biggest immediate concerns are the bov hits the hood, no matter what I do, and the bumper fits like crap now, looks like trimming needs to be done.
yea trimming the bumper is necessary with most if not all FMICs.
i'm glad you brought up the issue about the bov. When I first saw installed pics I saw that the bov does indeed sit a bit high (well in comparison to the vrspeed/ssac kit).
Trimming of the bumper will have to be done as with any fmic kit.
We have had zero issues with bov to hood clearance on either the original test kits or any of the kits we have shipped to customers (at least that I'm aware of). Is this something that can be caused by installation issues? Has anybody else had this problem?
In both runs, the AFR was about the same, VERY rich. Low 10 AFR until higher revs where it was in the 9s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by punishment
Trimming of the bumper will have to be done as with any fmic kit.
We have had zero issues with bov to hood clearance on either the original test kits or any of the kits we have shipped to customers (at least that I'm aware of). Is this something that can be caused by installation issues? Has anybody else had this problem?
Tim
I wish I took pictures... no matter how I twisted the UICP the BOV sits higher than the valve cover. I don't know if they very kit-to-kit but there was like 1-1.5" of pipe inbetween the BOV flange and ic pipe. If that was way lower I don't think it would've been a problem at all. I had to screw the adjustment screw all the way in to make the hood closeable.
To the person who asked, it's a genuine greddy type-s.
In both runs, the AFR was about the same, VERY rich. Low 10 AFR until higher revs where it was in the 9s.
I wish I took pictures... no matter how I twisted the UICP the BOV sits higher than the valve cover. I don't know if they very kit-to-kit but there was like 1-1.5" of pipe inbetween the BOV flange and ic pipe. If that was way lower I don't think it would've been a problem at all. I had to screw the adjustment screw all the way in to make the hood closeable.
To the person who asked, it's a genuine greddy type-s.
thanks for the data. any install pics?
if it is hitting on a greddy type s, a greddy type-r or other taller valves will definitely not work.
In both runs, the AFR was about the same, VERY rich. Low 10 AFR until higher revs where it was in the 9s.
I wish I took pictures... no matter how I twisted the UICP the BOV sits higher than the valve cover. I don't know if they very kit-to-kit but there was like 1-1.5" of pipe inbetween the BOV flange and ic pipe. If that was way lower I don't think it would've been a problem at all. I had to screw the adjustment screw all the way in to make the hood closeable.
To the person who asked, it's a genuine greddy type-s.
So wtf, the BOV sits that tall?
Numbers are good though, but what good is that if you cant close the hood. I dont get it though, you tightened down the adjustment screw all the way to make it close? How does the BOV open?
Weird. In the pictures on PR's site, the knockoff sits fine right below the VC.
As for the numbers, I was kind of expecting more. Anybody have numbers using ETS FMIC on a similar setup? How did the much shorter piping feel in comparison to the Greddy?
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Tim
Grace: 1998 Eclipse GST
Daisy: 1990 Jeep XJ
Weird. In the pictures on PR's site, the knockoff sits fine right below the VC.
As for the numbers, I was kind of expecting more. Anybody have numbers using ETS FMIC on a similar setup? How did the much shorter piping feel in comparison to the Greddy?
Well, I wish I had time to tune on the greddy fmic then switch so both numbers were higher and maybe a higher gain.
I did notice after the pulls on the greddy (when I was getting ready to take it off) it was warm on the whole fmic. After a few pulls on the PR, it was only hot coming in but the other side was cool to the touch still. I also really which I had IAT to log too
In both runs, the AFR was about the same, VERY rich. Low 10 AFR until higher revs where it was in the 9s.
Thats funny, so in this case, "You get what you pay for" doesn't really apply . The only thing that is missing is the IAT. That would be tremendously helpful.
I leave everyone alone for a week or two and the crap flies everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b00stedtalon2
Pipes are aluminum, not the stainless steel your kit comes with. Beaded ends, 4ply couplers, t-bolt clamps that don't strip. I've owned both kits, I prefer the Punishment kit. No hacking to the actual car either which is nice with the PR kit.
Also, for people that are worried about cooling issues? Never heard of this with a FMIC kit. My car is performing awesome with this, zero cooling issues.
-Scott
+1. I have been logging my temps with DSMlink every time I drive the car. Ambient air temps have ranged from 40 to 58 degrees. Even after a few pulls from first to the top of third my coolent temps are consistant with no cooling issues. Here is some info from my last pull log:
Engine at idle for 15 minutes
Ambient Temp- 45
Coolent Temp- 193
RIT- 97
Top of second gear
Ambient Temp- 45
Coolent Temp- 186
RIT- 125
Top of third gear
Ambient Temp- 45
Coolent Temp- 186
RIT- 132
Top of third gear(2nd pull)
Ambient Temp- 45
Coolent Temp- 186
RIT- 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90CherryBomb
Today was a very long day at the dyno.
End result, +8hp +9tq from greddy to pr. These aren't exact numbers as I don't have the dyno plots here. Test were done @ 25psi on a 14b.
My two biggest immediate concerns are the bov hits the hood, no matter what I do, and the bumper fits like crap now, looks like trimming needs to be done.
My BOV clears perfectly. I did not have any clearence issues at all. Do you have any close-up pics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsondragon
Weird. In the pictures on PR's site, the knockoff sits fine right below the VC.
As for the numbers, I was kind of expecting more. Anybody have numbers using ETS FMIC on a similar setup? How did the much shorter piping feel in comparison to the Greddy?
I will say that the first thing I noticed with this kit was the significantly quicker spool up compared to the APEXi kit(similar in design to the Greddy). I am extremely happy with this.
More testing on the street and on the dyno will be happening in the coming weeks and i'd like to be able to monitor the IAT when I do. So far I can say that this kit has improved turbo spool up, holds a solid 21 PSI of boost with my setup, and causes no cooling issues whatsoever. Install is a snap with the hardest part being the last which is putting the front bumper on.
If you guys have any more questions you can think of that I didn't, let me know.
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Adam
96 Eagle Talon TSi
90 Plymouth Laser RS
The cooling issues I believe are more inclined towards the 2gb. I have read several threads where members from here and from DSMLink removed the black piece that is on the bumper. Most, if not all, says by cutting that piece out it has resolved their cooling issues. I'm guessing it's different for the 2ga as the smiley is a much bigger opening.
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Tim
Grace: 1998 Eclipse GST
Daisy: 1990 Jeep XJ
The cooling issues I believe are more inclined towards the 2gb. I have read several threads where members from here and from DSMLink removed the black piece that is on the bumper. Most, if not all, says by cutting that piece out it has resolved their cooling issues. I'm guessing it's different for the 2ga as the smiley is a much bigger opening.
True. Also, I have the A/C removed. I removed it many years ago when I was still using a MKIV Supra SMIC.
____________________________
Adam
96 Eagle Talon TSi
90 Plymouth Laser RS
Here is a picture I took when I first put the bumper on. I had to do quite a bit of cutting(and may do a little bit more) to get it just the way I want it. I'll try and get a few more pictures up when I can.
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Adam
96 Eagle Talon TSi
90 Plymouth Laser RS
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry ! hahahah
. 
Maybe a price drop will sway my opinion on which one to buy? 
. The only thing that is missing is the IAT. That would be tremendously helpful.
