I was dead set on a 4088 until I read this...

[dsmmike50t]

^^Yes the compressor wheel. I would go for the 7 blade(super 40) suppost to be the highest flowing hx40 67-68lbs/min. I think I heard it was better than the 6 blade, but have yet to see any comparisons. Try searching all the diesel cummin forums out there. The last time I checked they had tons of hx40's for sale.

[TxR6guy]

Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - HX40 for DSM 600HP+ SUPER FAST SPOOL Check stock

[jkimes]

Thanks for trying to help, but I'm looking for a divided t4 hotside with vband output so the one you listed is not really applicable for me. The turbo in the ebay auction I linked to above shows the following specs:

4" Inlet Diameter

3" Compressor Outlet Diameter

T4 Divided Entry Exhaust Inlet

4" Exhaust V-Band Outlet

Journal Bearing

800 HP+

Compressor Wheel

72 lb/min Air Flow

Ind: 56..6 mm

Exd: 74.71 mm

Trim: 54.8

Turbine Wheel

4" V-Band

Ind: 76 mm

Exd: 64 mm

I just need to know if this is a good match for my 2.4 or If I'm better off looking for a 6blade with a different size inducer. Were the inducer sizes dsm-onster referred to earlier the turbine or compressor inducer sizes?

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by jkimes

Thanks for trying to help, but I'm looking for a divided t4 hotside with vband output so the one you listed is not really applicable for me. The turbo in the ebay auction I linked to above shows the following specs:

4" Inlet Diameter

3" Compressor Outlet Diameter

T4 Divided Entry Exhaust Inlet

4" Exhaust V-Band Outlet

Journal Bearing

800 HP+

Compressor Wheel

72 lb/min Air Flow

Ind: 56..6 mm

Exd: 74.71 mm

Trim: 54.8

Turbine Wheel

4" V-Band

Ind: 76 mm

Exd: 64 mm

I just need to know if this is a good match for my 2.4 or If I'm better off looking for a 6blade with a different size inducer. Were the inducer sizes dsm-onster referred to earlier the turbine or compressor inducer sizes?

That would make for a real nice setup. Holset turbos are verry efficent too and spool very fast for non bb turbos with the flow capabilities of larger turbos.

[dsmmike50t]

Originally Posted by jkimes

Thanks for trying to help, but I'm looking for a divided t4 hotside with vband output so the one you listed is not really applicable for me. The turbo in the ebay auction I linked to above shows the following specs:

4" Inlet Diameter

3" Compressor Outlet Diameter

T4 Divided Entry Exhaust Inlet

4" Exhaust V-Band Outlet

Journal Bearing

800 HP+

Compressor Wheel

72 lb/min Air Flow

Ind: 56..6 mm

Exd: 74.71 mm

Trim: 54.8

Turbine Wheel

4" V-Band

Ind: 76 mm

Exd: 64 mm

I just need to know if this is a good match for my 2.4 or If I'm better off looking for a 6blade with a different size inducer. Were the inducer sizes dsm-onster referred to earlier the turbine or compressor inducer sizes?

Thats the smallest hx40 you can get. Get the 58mm or 60mm inducer(6 blade or 7 blade).

[dsm-onster]

The 6blade has a 60mm inducer. And there is an aftermarket 8-blade 60mm floating around. There's a special 7blade that is larger than 60mm, according the htturbo and other shops. . . It may be an hx52 wheel . . . I don't know about it.

That first one you posted is an hx35 not an hx40 any way. This second one you posted is an 8blade hx40 which is about like a t3stage5 60-1. Flows about 58lb/min. And should have good spool. But isn't like the 6-blade hx40 which can flow 67lb/min.

[We're on Boost]

Originally Posted by jkimes

Thanks for trying to help, but I'm looking for a divided t4 hotside with vband output

jkimes, you might be interested in following the testing that is currently underway by Geoff at Full Race. They are about to start testing pretty much the whole lineup of Borg Warner turbos with divided T4 housings. Geoff is totally into twin-scroll turbos, and he prefers T4 to T3 when it comes to divided housings. They also sell twin-scroll versions of the Garrett GT turbos. Geoff told me a few days ago that they are finishing up their testing of the Garrett turbos, will be testing some Turbonetics next, and the Borgs after that. Some of the Borgs he is talking about are so new that they are not even really available yet. Anyway, I don't think their test info will ever be put out for the whole world to see. But you can find out stuff about the results by email, Geoff will correspond with you. Here is a link to their BW page:

Full-Race Motorsports LLC Call us toll free at (866) FULL-RACE

Be sure to take a look at the "T4 twinscroll TS360". It might be a little too small if you really want 700 whp but it looks like it should be a heck of a turbo.

Gary

[IPT]

HAHA.. That link is almost funny. Full-race has finally figured out what other shops have known for over a year now. Borg-Warners are good turbos!! the funny thing about those turbos is that they do not talk at ALL about which turbine wheels they are using. Most of the turbine housings they are talking about use a HUGE turbine wheel that will not spool very well.

[Slippi84]

They should put the s258 up there I think that would be the best selling turbo for the 600hp crowd as it's similar to a sc61 or gt35r in flow.

[We're on Boost]

Originally Posted by IPT

the funny thing about those turbos is that they do not talk at ALL about which turbine wheels they are using. Most of the turbine housings they are talking about use a HUGE turbine wheel that will not spool very well.

I emailed Geoff a while back because I was curious too about the turbine wheels. He told me the TS360 uses a 3.00 / 2.66 turbine ( 76.2mm / 67.6mm by my calculator) which sounds like the same wheel bullseye has been using in the S362. And he told me his TS256 uses the 2.74 / 2.420 turbine ( 69.6mm / 61.5mm) which is the SMALLest wheel you see listed on the Bullseye site but when you ask bullseye about that wheel they say they don't really have housings for them and I doubt they have ever sold any.
The compressor wheel in the TS360 Geoff says is the same as the HTA3582 wheel and he has been saying that for a long time. In this case I don't know what "same" is supposed to mean. I don't know if FP is buying them from BW or if FP has copied the wheel, or selling a near copy and paying licensing fees to BW, or what. It could be a number of things and I doubt Geoff knows the whole story there. And it could just be totally wrong for all I know.

Originally Posted by Slippi84

They should put the s258 up there I think that would be the best selling turbo for the 600hp crowd as it's similar to a sc61 or gt35r in flow.

I emailed Geoff suggesting this too. I told him that he should have something in-between his TS256 and his TS360, because his TS256 is smaller than the bullseye S256. His TS256 is smaller not only the turbine but also the compressor exducer is smaller. So I said hey you should put a TS258 in there with the 80mm exducer compressor wheel.

Gary

[dsm-onster]

Well, the s258 is such a better performer in spool than the gt35r with matching flow. And he probably has alot of gt35r turbos in stock he has to sell. Being that they cost more, he'll never get those 35R's sold if he offers the s258 .

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Well, the s258 is such a better performer in spool than the gt35r with matching flow. And he probably has alot of gt35r turbos in stock he has to sell. Being that they cost more, he'll never get those 35R's sold if he offers the s258 .

lol soo true. If we don't see any post from dsm-onster for a while we'll knwo it's cause geoff sent his Honda henchmen to get him for messing up his gt35r sales lol.

[We're on Boost]

Originally Posted by Slippi84

If we don't see any post from dsm-onster for a while we'll knwo it's cause geoff sent his Honda henchmen to get him for messing up his gt35r sales lol.

Hey that reminds me, I asked Geoff about his test motor because I thought maybe it would be a HONDA. Nope.
" 2.1L long rod motor, stock intake manifold, tomei 280 cams, great test bed to work with "
is that motor a Mitsu or a Honda? "that is an evo 8 motor with stock evo intake manifold"

Gary

[TurboTiger]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Well, the s258 is such a better performer in spool than the gt35r with matching flow. And he probably has alot of gt35r turbos in stock he has to sell. Being that they cost more, he'll never get those 35R's sold if he offers the s258 .

According to the compressor maps, the efficiency island for the S258 turbo is to the left of the GT35, which would in theory give the GT35 more power when you start flowing the 50+ lbs / min

[dsm-onster]

Look at the height of the graph. We run 4cylinders . 35psi puts you at the highest rpm curve on the gt35r (56-trim) map at 55lb/min and off the map at 60 lb/min. The s258 isn't even close to 120K rpms at 35 psi ever. Hence the faster spool and less exhaust energy (gases) needed. More gases are wastegated and the total engine VE goes up. Therefore, better flow.

. . . And if you need to run more boost to flow that kind of mass, then the s258 can do it. No need to upgrade from one SMIM to another, and port the head, and run a stroker kit, or buy 288s and rev to kingdom come. So not only is the BW more affordable, but you don't need such an expensive supporting cast in your engine bay to get similar flow numbers. Just up the boost. Gotta love turbos designed for diesels!

[TurboTiger]

Well, if you run 25psi or lower, the GT35 is more efficient.
But yah, if you run about 35psi or a 3.4 pressure ratio, the S258 is definitely more efficient.

I guess that's why I bought a S258 with the twin scroll housing and JMF Twin Scroll manifold. It took me forever to decide on that particular combination.

I overlayed the GT35 compressor map onto a S258 compressor map just to see where the efficiency islands are on the map.

[dsm-onster]

25psi with a gt35r is a waste to me. I understand that some may do this because they want the the same turbo for the street, then turn up the boost for the track. . . So they look for the most efficient compressor for the boost they can get away with on the street. But why bother. I'm more concerned about the efficiency at the track. The s258 is still over 72% efficient at 25psi up to and a little past 55lb/min. There's really no way you can flow 55+ lb/min at 25 psi with either turbo.

Besides you have a faster spool with the s256. That to me is more important for the street. And when it comes to track time, it is more efficient, faster spool, AND can exhaust more gases for better VE. So I still think you made a great purchase for the strip turbo that is plenty suitable for good street/pumpgas power. It's also rebuildable. At the 25psi and the likely flow of 45lb/min it is still at 78% efficiency. . . Much better than a 20g and spools about as fast.

[We're on Boost]

Originally Posted by TurboTiger

I guess that's why I bought a S258 with the twin scroll housing and JMF Twin Scroll manifold. It took me forever to decide on that particular combination.

Hey way to go! That's the setup I've been thinking about getting lately. What a/r turbine housing did you get? And could you take a look at that housing and see if it actually says Borg Warner or has a BW logo on it somewhere - something to indicate it is actually made by BW.

Gary

[We're on Boost]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Look at the height of the graph ..... if you need to run more boost to flow that kind of mass, then the s258 can do it. No need to upgrade from one SMIM to another, and port the head, and run a stroker kit, or buy 288s and rev to kingdom come. So not only is the BW more affordable, but you don't need such an expensive supporting cast in your engine bay to get similar flow numbers. Just up the boost.

That's kinda like what I'm thinking.

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

35psi puts you at the highest rpm curve on the gt35r (56-trim) map at 55lb/min and off the map at 60 lb/min.

It's even worse than that if you get out your calculator and figure in typical losses.
Here we go with optimistic losses at sea level:

Given: GT3582 overspeed line goes through PR~3.25 at 55 lb/min

14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure, absolute, at sea level)
-0.5 psi (pressure losses in air filter & intake pipe, NO MAF)
=14.2 psi (pressure at compressor inlet, absolute)

x 3.25 (PR on the overspeed line at 55 lb/min)
=46.15 psi (pressure at compressor outlet, absolute)

-14.7 psi (subtracting atmospheric pressure to get gage pressure instead of absolute)
=31.5 psi (pressure at compressor outlet, gage)

-1.5 psi (pressure losses in IC, IC piping, throttle body, STILL NO MAF)
=30 psi (pressure in the intake manifold, gage, YOUR BOOST)

So really you'll be on the edge of the GT35 map at only 30 psi at 55 lb/min.
Just goes to show how far off the map people run these things.
If you want to stay on the map get a Borg!

Gary