Holset Turbos, PART 3 - Page 33

Slippi84 · 07-15-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

I'm now so sure the HX40 is the best idea for you. The HX40 gets the best performance with lots of boost and it's pretty difficult running high boost on my 9:1 and I can't imagine what it's like on a 10.5:1 but that's just my 2 cent.

I know trust me I already worked the setup out. I don't want to put all my secrets out on the web but I have timing and fuel control along with everything to monitor a/f ratio and egts along with we'll say anti-knock tec

and a tuner more than capable. It will be the exception more than the norm but it will be functional.

dsm-onster · 07-16-2008, 06:06 AM

The ebay wastegates are just fine. What can happen? A broken spring? Well, boost will drop. A broken Diaphragm? Boost will drop. A leak? boost will drop. If any of these fail, swapping in the specific part from TiAL would work. And is still far less expensive. You're truely buying into a name and promoting the culture, not making your setup safer. It's not like a turbocharger. It's a spring, silicone diaphragm, a valve and a case. Zero issues, rock solid boost from 5 to 29 psi.

A 38mm wastegate is just fine for a typical built 4g63 or even one with stock 6bolt internals. Who's had a problem with creep with an external 38mm gated hx40? No one knows. We're all helping with our 4g63 knowledge

.

A turbo can perform well at low boost though the compressor is less efficient. Compressor efficiency is the cause of less than 1% increase in heat where a 75% efficient intercooler is used. Any good sized ebay frontmount can do this. The turbine needs more exhaust energy to rotate the compressor when it is inefficient but at the end of the compressor map, so creap will likely never be an issue. I doubt Slippi will need 20psi to reach 55lb/min, but the hx40 isn't too far out of efficency on the large hx40 map. The question is will he even need around 55lb/min to reach his goal?

Slippi84 · 07-16-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxR6guy

Quick question does anyone have a serial # off the HX-40 that they are useing? I have a family member that works for Cummins and he said there is about 20 different styles of the HX-40 and he needs the Serial # to narrow down what i need.

03299074

That's for a hx40w with 7 blade

Slippi84 · 07-16-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

The ebay wastegates are just fine. What can happen? A broken spring? Well, boost will drop. A broken Diaphragm? Boost will drop. A leak? boost will drop. If any of these fail, swapping in the specific part from TiAL would work. And is still far less expensive. You're truely buying into a name and promoting the culture, not making your setup safer. It's not like a turbocharger. It's a spring, silicone diaphragm, a valve and a case. Zero issues, rock solid boost from 5 to 29 psi.

A 38mm wastegate is just fine for a typical built 4g63 or even one with stock 6bolt internals. Who's had a problem with creep with an external 38mm gated hx40? No one knows. We're all helping with our 4g63 knowledge

.

A turbo can perform well at low boost though the compressor is less efficient. Compressor efficiency is the cause of less than 1% increase in heat where a 75% efficient intercooler is used. Any good sized ebay frontmount can do this. The turbine needs more exhaust energy to rotate the compressor when it is inefficient but at the end of the compressor map, so creap will likely never be an issue. I doubt Slippi will need 20psi to reach 55lb/min, but the hx40 isn't too far out of efficency on the large hx40 map. The question is will he even need around 55lb/min to reach his goal?

I went back and read your post about the ondas and how they compare. I know my head doesn't flow as good as a hond but with my higher lift cams and high compression you think just using the 18cm houisng and runnig low boost like they do I would have a easier time tuning and making power or do you think I owuld be making it harder for myself? I figure the 18cm hosuing at like 10psi might be able to make the power I want. I don't think I willneed more than 400whp to reach my goals with how light my car is.

dsm-onster · 07-17-2008, 04:02 PM

You're really out there in uncharted territory. Headflow affects spool more than compression. If a head flows well at 3K, you'll see boost earlier than a head that is cut for higher rpm power. Yet that head of which flows more down low and spools the turbo quicker will definately need much more boost for the same horsepower output, of course.

Personally, I think you're going to need more boost than you think. But less timing. The tune is going to be more crucial for curbing knock. And you're going to end up with 18-20 psi to reach your goal. The 4g63 head flow very well, and has good tumble characteristics. It's the piston design that is pi$$ poor. Not enough squish is there when there could be much more because of the head chamber shape. I don't know what the 420a offers exactly. But a 2.0 with similar flow and tumble characteristics and 2 points higher in compressions can see 5-6% more power for the same boost considering percentage increase in thermal efficiency of an otto cycle engine is about proportional to the horsepower output. See below chart. A **well supported** 2.0 4g63 can see 400whp with a good flowing turbine (t3 stage3 wheel or bigger) at 22-24psi. You'll could be putting out 25-30 more horsepower if your head flows as well and you're setup is as supportive.

I don't think running the big holset housing with an open header design will give any more ability to reach your goal. And will only really slow your spool.

Slippi84 · 07-17-2008, 07:19 PM

Yeah I gave up on that idea. My goal now is to get 20psi safely with meth and the t3 .70ar with side exit exhaust out the front bumper like shep. WHatever numbers it puts ut it puts out but I don't think running more will be worth the risk of the head going pop.

kicker91laser · 07-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Does anyone know what the a/r is on a 19cm t4 turbine housing?

ceedawg · 07-24-2008, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kicker91laser

Does anyone know what the a/r is on a 19cm t4 turbine housing?

probably about 1.00 plus.

1gDSM4g63 · 07-24-2008, 10:34 PM

I believe it's somewhere around 1.3-1.4 a/r. It is a pretty big and laggy housing.

Slippi84 · 07-25-2008, 12:32 AM

SHe's all togeher now I gotta put her on and see what happens

IPT · 07-25-2008, 08:02 AM

I love the looks of an HX40 with the t3 .70 housing on it.

Slippi84 · 07-25-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPT

I love the looks of an HX40 with the t3 .70 housing on it.

That makes two of us

ANyone want that 18cm housing. I'm not trying to sell it just seeing if someone wants it to test or whatever. PM info. AGIAN NOT SELLING IT JUST GIVING IT AWAY!

1gDSM4g63 · 07-25-2008, 12:49 PM

Does anyone know what the HX40 w/ T3 .70 housing is capable of vs. the spool? I'm in the process of switching from a BEP .55 to a T3 .70 and I don't want to over conceive the differences.

Slippi84 · 07-25-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Does anyone know what the HX40 w/ T3 .70 housing is capable of vs. the spool? I'm in the process of switching from a BEP .55 to a T3 .70 and I don't want to over conceive the differences.

I"ve seen some pictures on here but they make the .70ar out to be a lot bigger than it really is. It's perfect size in my opinion. You have to see it in person to appreciate it but it will spool plenty quick.

1gDSM4g63 · 07-25-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippi84

I"ve seen some pictures on here but they make the .70ar out to be a lot bigger than it really is.

Yeah, they are much larger compared to the BEP .55 housing. I've already gotten the rebuild HX40 back you need spacer or whatnot for fitment.

Slippi84 · 07-25-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Yeah, they are much larger compared to the BEP .55 housing. I've already gotten the rebuild HX40 back you need spacer or whatnot for fitment.

SPacer?? Idk about a space but I have seen both the bolt on and the .70ar it's not as big as you think. Here's mine mounted on my manifold

dsm-onster · 07-26-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Does anyone know what the HX40 w/ T3 .70 housing is capable of vs. the spool? I'm in the process of switching from a BEP .55 to a T3 .70 and I don't want to over conceive the differences.

Look back a few pages. The ones running this on the hx40 are getting spool about 3-400rpms later. Not bad at all considering full boost is still under 4500rpms

.

Slippi84 · 07-26-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Look back a few pages. The ones running this on the hx40 are getting spool about 3-400rpms later. Not bad at all considering full boost is still under 4500rpms

.

Yeah before I will admit I was one of the bs callers on the spool for these turbos but that's because in the pictures I saw it was like a ugly girls myspace pictures...very missleading and hyped up due to good angles. In person it's only slightly bigger than the bolt on housing I had on my GT14. Spool around 4500 is very likely

My biggest worries now are keeping my head on and keeping EGT's in check.

1gDSM4g63 · 07-26-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippi84

SPacer?? Idk about a space but I have seen both the bolt on and the .70ar it's not as big as you think. Here's mine mounted on my manifold.

I don't need spacer to mount the turbo on the manifold out of the car. What I meant it that I need spacer to mount the turbo in the engine bay with the manifold not hitting the engine. It maybe different in 420a but I do need spacer to jam it in my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster