Holset Turbos, PART 3

[kraka]

Originally Posted by FonZ454

Are you comparing the 3076 and 35r to a HX40 with them all in a bolt on mitsubishi housing?

The hx40's rated at i believe 75lb/min, but you choke that pretty good going into a mitsu housing i'd assume.

Well at this point who knows, but more than likely I will end up going Mitsu housing and I had a suspicion a 3076 or 35r would be better suited for that. In the end, any of the above with a T3 housing would probably flow a lot more.

[Steve93Talon]

Carl's HX40 in the BEP housing made the same power as a 35r in the FP bolt-on housing with identical supporting mods and similar tunes, and the HX40 outspooled it by like 800rpms. Neither turbo was maxed out, but at the 500whp range, the BEP was not a significant restriction as the power didn't fall off up to 8k.

[drewvr4]

question to guys with Holset's already on, how are you running your oil inlet? Its what a 12x1.5 thread and I know none of the AN fittings have a NPT size like that, so how are you doing it?

[kraka]

Originally Posted by Steve93Talon

Carl's HX40 in the BEP housing made the same power as a 35r in the FP bolt-on housing with identical supporting mods and similar tunes, and the HX40 outspooled it by like 800rpms. Neither turbo was maxed out, but at the 500whp range, the BEP was not a significant restriction as the power didn't fall off up to 8k.

Damn, that's impressive. The HX40 out-spooled the ball bearing GT35?

Was this the HX40-pro, or just a regular HX40 compressor with a Bullseye Bolt on housing?

I would be interested but they are just so damn hard to find.

[dsm-onster]

It was with the HX40 pro wheel. . .Excellent combination isn't it!

Weeelll, I picked up an H1C. The predecessor to the hx35. It comes with an 18cm^2 turbine housing. . . Which will be remedied soon. I was about to purchase the TD06SL FP18G, but I'd like to see what this does instead. It ends up being cheaper. The HX35 in the bep housing spools about as quick as this FP18g is reported. The H1C has the same exhaust wheel and bolts into the HX35 bep housing. We'll see how much it puts out.

Wasn't there one on this forum who ran the H1C. . . Is he still a member? I'll have to find out some info from him.

EDIT: found the guy. He's masemn.

[kraka]

It's a shame it's damn near impossible to find the BEP Holset's for sale anymore. The HX40pro sounds like an awesome upgrade after the 50trim is maxed, but I havn't been able to find it anywhere! Guess I just have to get lucky and wait for one to pop up on the market.

[joeracer321]

I may have sold the last new HX-40 BEP bolt on housing in existence at the moment, unless BEP decides to cast more. I do have one used turbine housing set up for an internal that would need a helicoil and a sandblast to make it like new again. But don't give up hope there are plenty of other options including stepping up to a new T3 .70 A/R which is more along the lines of what the HX-40 should be in for max power anyhow. Or you can look at the new BW turbos as they are performing very well.

[Maglin]

Originally Posted by b00stedtalon2

The Holset Hx-52 uses a t4 16cm housing with 4" vband. It's a 67mm. I have one in my garage for next season.

It will never spool!! It's not proven... It's a waste of money....

LoL... I had to say that. I haven't looked at my HX-52 in a while. I never even got around to breaking the seal and take the compressor housing off to mic the wheels. Thanks for the info. I'm planning on using a top mount manifold. I'm going to build a side exit exhaust for the track and a 4"-3" 90* O2 housing (if you can even really call it that) to run when I decide to take it to the street. My personal goal is to reach full spool by 7500 RPM's. That gives me about 3K of power band and enough momentum to hopefully not break the tires loose in 2nd gear when it hits 50 PSI. I think I screwed up with my W/G selection as I have a 44mm Tial. I bought the Tial for the HX-35 and was wanting to run 25 PSI on the street. Now I wish I had a 38mm Tial as a 44mm is almost to big.

What are you looking to run power wise on your 52? I know they flow around 120 lbs/min which is a little to much by about 30 lbs/min. I'm currently looking to run 45-55 PSI and looking for at least 700 HP on just the turbo and also run a dry 200HP shot of nitrous. (btw I know it sounds dumb but I have fuel completely controled by my PCM including the fuel for the nitrous) My total output goal is 1200 HP. I don't know how much I'll actually make but that is my target. As long as it's 1K+ I'll have a poop eating grin on my face each time it blows the doors off some muscle car.


And as for spool up. If someone isn't happy with a 4200 RPM spool but wants to make 400+ HP their is a problem. My HX-35 would hit 32 PSI @ 3800 on a completely stock long block. The same HX-35 reaches 26 PSI @ 3850 on a fully built motor with 8.2:1 compression and HKS 280 cams @ 11.6:1 AFR. I only had about 30 minutes to get a good tune on it so it's pretty conservitive with only 15* advance @ 8500 going to 10,500 RPMS. And it's very very fast. I know for a fact I could drop the spool another 100-200 RPMS with more tuning but personally I don't like to spool to fast. You just end up spinning your tires in the top of 1st and 2nd.

I wouldn't bother with the BEP housings either. A HX40 not showing signs of choking to 8K isn't a good enough test. It needs to be wrung out to at least 10K. Most serious racers wanting to run a DSM is going to see 10-10.5K especially on a 1/8th mile track. I'm pretty sure if it would have been spun to those speeds you would have seen it starting to choke. The T3 that most all HX35 and HY35's have is perfect. You should see full spool around 4200-4400 RPMS. I saw a Dodge Omni running the HX35 with Holset hotside and he was seeing 30 PSI @ 4200.

[Steve93Talon]

I'd love to see how the HX40 performs in the .70 housing, my S258 certainly has some kick in that housing. As for bang for the buck now that BEP doesn't have the Holsets, the non-extended tip BWs are a great value.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by kraka

It's a shame it's damn near impossible to find the BEP Holset's for sale anymore. The HX40pro sounds like an awesome upgrade after the 50trim is maxed, but I havn't been able to find it anywhere! Guess I just have to get lucky and wait for one to pop up on the market.

???

BEP still sells them. . . theturbotrader.com as well. . .

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by Maglin

It will never spool!! It's not proven... It's a waste of money....

LoL... I had to say that. I haven't looked at my HX-52 in a while. I never even got around to breaking the seal and take the compressor housing off to mic the wheels. Thanks for the info. I'm planning on using a top mount manifold. I'm going to build a side exit exhaust for the track and a 4"-3" 90* O2 housing (if you can even really call it that) to run when I decide to take it to the street. My personal goal is to reach full spool by 7500 RPM's. That gives me about 3K of power band and enough momentum to hopefully not break the tires loose in 2nd gear when it hits 50 PSI. I think I screwed up with my W/G selection as I have a 44mm Tial. I bought the Tial for the HX-35 and was wanting to run 25 PSI on the street. Now I wish I had a 38mm Tial as a 44mm is almost to big.

What are you looking to run power wise on your 52? I know they flow around 120 lbs/min which is a little to much by about 30 lbs/min. I'm currently looking to run 45-55 PSI and looking for at least 700 HP on just the turbo and also run a dry 200HP shot of nitrous. (btw I know it sounds dumb but I have fuel completely controled by my PCM including the fuel for the nitrous) My total output goal is 1200 HP. I don't know how much I'll actually make but that is my target. As long as it's 1K+ I'll have a poop eating grin on my face each time it blows the doors off some muscle car.


And as for spool up. If someone isn't happy with a 4200 RPM spool but wants to make 400+ HP their is a problem. My HX-35 would hit 32 PSI @ 3800 on a completely stock long block. The same HX-35 reaches 26 PSI @ 3850 on a fully built motor with 8.2:1 compression and HKS 280 cams @ 11.6:1 AFR. I only had about 30 minutes to get a good tune on it so it's pretty conservitive with only 15* advance @ 8500 going to 10,500 RPMS. And it's very very fast. I know for a fact I could drop the spool another 100-200 RPMS with more tuning but personally I don't like to spool to fast. You just end up spinning your tires in the top of 1st and 2nd.

I wouldn't bother with the BEP housings either. A HX40 not showing signs of choking to 8K isn't a good enough test. It needs to be wrung out to at least 10K. Most serious racers wanting to run a DSM is going to see 10-10.5K especially on a 1/8th mile track. I'm pretty sure if it would have been spun to those speeds you would have seen it starting to choke. The T3 that most all HX35 and HY35's have is perfect. You should see full spool around 4200-4400 RPMS. I saw a Dodge Omni running the HX35 with Holset hotside and he was seeing 30 PSI @ 4200.

Bud! thanx so much for your actual experience with the hx35 w/ a bep housing!

And I have to agree that a divided holset 12cm^2 housing is ideal!

[kraka]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

???

BEP still sells them. . . theturbotrader.com as well. . .

Hey thanks for the link! TTT.com seems to have Bolt on HX 35's and 40's in stock! I'm still debating which to go with as an upgrade for a 50trim. I would run 20-24psi daily on pump.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by kraka

Hey thanks for the link! TTT.com seems to have Bolt on HX 35's and 40's in stock! I'm still debating which to go with as an upgrade for a 50trim. I would run 20-24psi daily on pump.

The hx40 (with the 7 or 6 blade compressor wheel) in a bep housing is an upgrade. The bep housing and hx35 turbine combined are likely way too restrictive for an hax35/hx40 hybrid. And seam to only flow enough to push the 8 blade hx35 compressor. So spending the money on a hybrid will be a waste, IMHO.

Or getting a divided t3 exhaustmanifold and running the 12cm^2 housing on a 7 blade hx35 is an upgrade. IMHO. Here is what I've gathered so far:

1. The 7 blade HX35 compressor has a 56mm compressor with extended tip and map width enhancement. So it has a 1mm smaller inducer than a gt30r compressor with far better aerodynamics.

2. The 8 blade hx35 compressor map has been posted up. I confirmed that to be an 8 blade map over at thedieselregistry.com.

3. Many at thedieselregistry.com seam to swear that the hx30e is the same compressor as an hx35/hy35 7 blade compressor.

4. If those guys are correct, the 8 blade is very comparable to a 50-trim compressor. That puts the 7 blade some where better! There are 2 known hx30e compressor maps. One looks very much like the older 8 blade map. And the other shows a 57 lb/min flow!

5. As mentioned by Maglin, the h1c/hx35 turbine is smallish. . . Or at least designed to impede the flow more to quicken spool: see these turbine wheel pictures. Look at the angle the gasses have to follow to travel from the inducer to the exducer. So it deserves the turbine housing for which it was intended using that compressor: the 12cm^2 divided housing.

6. Spool will not suffer. Too many honda, turboford, turbobrick(volvo), sr20 guys have run that turbo in pure form and had quick response times for their potential. I know of several ka24 guys have seen 550whp with a 7 blade hx35, which is approaching 60-1 max flow territory.

7. Do yourself a favor and get or fab a divided runner exhaust manifold. The fow will be there and the spool will be incedible considering the size and flow potential. Not to mention the VE of each cylinder will sharply increase.

I could be wrong. You can't believe everything you see on the interweb.

The hx40 in the bep housing would make your 24psi pump gas goal easier to achieve. But I see the same possibility with a 7 blade hx35 in the 12cm^2 housing.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

The hx40 (with the 7 or 6 blade compressor wheel) in a bep housing is an upgrade. The bep housing and hx35 turbine combined are likely way too restrictive for an hax35/hx40 hybrid. And seam to only flow enough to push the 8 blade hx35 compressor. So spending the money on a hybrid will be a waste, IMHO.

Or getting a divided t3 exhaustmanifold and running the 12cm^2 housing on a 7 blade hx35 is an upgrade. IMHO. Here is what I've gathered so far:

1. The 7 blade HX35 compressor has a 56mm compressor with extended tip and map width enhancement. So it has a 1mm smaller inducer than a gt30r compressor with far better aerodynamics.

2. The 8 blade hx35 compressor map has been posted up. I confirmed that to be an 8 blade map over at thedieselregistry.com.

3. Many at thedieselregistry.com seam to swear that the hx30e is the same compressor as an hx35/hy35 7 blade compressor.

4. If those guys are correct, the 8 blade is very comparable to a 50-trim compressor. That puts the 7 blade some where better! There are 2 known hx30e compressor maps. One looks very much like the older 8 blade map. And the other shows a 57 lb/min flow!

5. As mentioned by Maglin, the h1c/hx35 turbine is smallish. . . Or at least designed to impede the flow more to quicken spool: see these turbine wheel pictures. Look at the angle the gasses have to follow to travel from the inducer to the exducer. So it deserves the turbine housing for which it was intended using that compressor: the 12cm^2 divided housing.

6. Spool will not suffer. Too many honda, turboford, turbobrick(volvo), sr20 guys have run that turbo in pure form and had quick response times for their potential. I know of several ka24 guys have seen 550whp with a 7 blade hx35, which is approaching 60-1 max flow territory.

7. Do yourself a favor and get or fab a divided runner exhaust manifold. The fow will be there and the spool will be incedible considering the size and flow potential. Not to mention the VE of each cylinder will sharply increase.

I could be wrong. You can't believe everything you see on the interweb.

The hx40 in the bep housing would make your 24psi pump gas goal easier to achieve. But I see the same possibility with a 7 blade hx35 in the 12cm^2 housing.

I can understand how the T housing swap would help out the HX35 or HX40/35.

If the 8 blade compressor wheel I have on my hybrid were swapped to a 7 blade compressor wheel, I'm wondering would this help or hamper the turbo in anyway with the 35 turbine wheel with a divided t3 housing?

I am waiting on a source for a divided T3 mani as well.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

I can understand how the T housing swap would help out the HX35 or HX40/35.

If the 8 blade compressor wheel I have on my hybrid were swapped to a 7 blade compressor wheel, I'm wondering would this help or hamper the turbo in anyway with the 35 turbine wheel with a divided t3 housing?

I am waiting on a source for a divided T3 mani as well.

I've heard of no gasoline car running an hx35/40 with the stock divided hx35 housing. You'll be the first from what I've seen.

The 8-blade hx40 turbine apparently flows less than an hx30e-7755 (early hx35, h1c of the intercooled cummins, wh1c). So your upgrade will help a bit. . . Depending on your goal. What do you want? Are you talking about using the hx40 7-blade or the hx35 7-blade? curiously the middle flowing hx40 compressor map looks very similar to the BIG hx30e map (hx30e-7765). This map is for the 7 blade hx35 from my research. And the 7-blade hx40 compressor flows in between the 8-blade and 6-blade. Three map, three compressor. So swapping to an hx40 7 blade compressor will likely yield the same results as bolting on another original, later years hx35 turbo. Confused?

It won't hamper the turbo to swap to a larger wheel as long as the wheel isn't too large.Then severe and pointless lag will occur. One should only accept lag for the sake of flow . The original hx35 compressor wheel is already out of the 10%-diameter-difference rule of thumb.

[kraka]

Thanks for all of the great info! I will definitely be considering the BEP HX40pro as my next turbo. Sounds like full boost at low 4k and 60+lb/min capabilities!

These turbo's are non-water cooled, correct? Are there any special flanges or fittings you need that attaches from the braided lines to center sections? I already have a -10an return line and -3/-4an feed setup for my garret.

[Maglin]

That main reason you see other cars running the Holset housing's is because they are not already a turbo car, and have to purchase an exhaust manifold anyways. I think that is the reason we see so many turbo's with great potential get nuderd by the use of a mitsu housing. People please just buy a T3 or T4 manifold. Personally I would get a divided T4 manifold and use a T3 adapter if you are currently going to run a T3. Then in the future you can slap that "FAT" T4 on and say screw it to spool and some bottom end.

As for the feed and return it's been told over and over and over again. Read the first 2 threads and all your questions will be answered and then some. I don't remember off hand or I would just give it to you. I've had my feed and return set-up for years now so I've long forgot. Personally I would use a push lock style return line. Much easier to install with far less hassle. Last return I got for someone was a push-lock and we received the darn SS "bling bling" line. I was so pissed off and not wanting to spend the time to put the line together I just grabbed my return and put it on that car. Those that have had built their return lines with SS will understand where I'm coming from.

Matt. Have you gotten your H1C yet? I have a H1E in a box in storage. When I moved a while back I threw away like 4 hot sides one of them being my H1E and I'm sooo upset at myself for it now. If you happen to have a T4 hot side that you don't want to run I'll take it and definitely compare it with the HX-52 just gee wiz comparison.

Sorry for seeming course but the only reason I got the BEP housing was because I was on a budget also known as being "CHEAP". The turbo sounded wicked and I was running 30+ PSI and making