Holset Turbos, PART 3

[Steve93Talon]

Originally Posted by Slippi84

checked his profile keep this in mind this was with a t3 vesrion of the bolt on. I didn't really look into it before but I'm gonna have to wave the bs flag monster on people using a bolt on housing getting full boost by 4k. This stroker setup got it at 4400 and he was tuned.

We have AEM logs showing full boost (30+psi) by 4k on a bolt-on HX40 on a 2.0 with a JMF race SMIM and FP2s.

[JWoodley]

Look at my dyno chart and see when I get full spool. This is on stock IM, stock cams, stock block. I don't 4k is happening on a 2.0, but my tune sucked balls.

EDIT: I'd say 5200-5400.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by Steve93Talon

We have AEM logs showing full boost (30+psi) by 4k on a bolt-on HX40 on a 2.0 with a JMF race SMIM and FP2s.

Dsmkid84@hotmail.com send them logs my way or if you can post em post. Because NO ONE has shown 4k full boost yet. Not even the guy who made 650whp and again we're talking t3 .55ar not mitsu .55ar. How much power id yo make with tha 30 psi by 4k log and how did you know it was at full boost?

Sorry but after looking around I gotta wave the BS flag

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Slippi84

Dsmkid84@hotmail.com send them logs my way or if you can post em post. Because NO ONE has shown 4k full boost yet. Not even the guy who made 650whp and again we're talking t3 .55ar not mitsu .55ar. How much power id yo make with tha 30 psi by 4k log and how did you know it was at full boost?

Sorry but after looking around I gotta wave the BS flag

In that lil turbine hsing I'd say it's indeed possible.

[1gDSM4g63]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

In that lil turbine hsing I'd say it's indeed possible.

BEP said it would get full spool anywhere between 3600-4000 so maybe it is true but I haven't yet come close to 4000.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

In that lil turbine hsing I'd say it's indeed possible.

A duall BB 50 trim(much smaller compressor) doesn't get full boost till like 4k in bolt on housing so untill someone can show me 4k full boost dyno pulls I'm sorry it's just a lot to swallow.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

BEP said it would get full spool anywhere between 3600-4000 so maybe it is true but I haven't yet come close to 4000.

The fact they said 3600-4k like 4k is slow makes me think they're really full of it cause no way a 65lb/min turbo is hitting full boost at 3600 on a 2.0 motor

[1gDSM4g63]

Originally Posted by Slippi84

The fact they said 3600-4k like 4k is slow makes me think they're really full of it cause no way a 65lb/min turbo is hitting full boost at 3600 on a 2.0 motor

Yeah, I agree. When I first bought the HX40 I didn't expect a huge-ass turbo to show up at my door and the sole purpose of buy it was because of what BEP told me. I guess it was my fault too that didn't dig deep enough for the specs. However, HX40 is a pretty good turbo as it is now but I'll be even more happy if it is capable of hitting full spool at 4k.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Yeah, I agree. When I first bought the HX40 I didn't expect a huge-ass to show up at my door turbo and the sole purpose of buy it was because of what BEP told me. I guess that was my fault too that didn't dig deep enough for the specs. However, HX40 is a pretty good turbo as it is now but I'll be even more happy if it is capable of hitting full spool at 4k.

If someone can prove to me that the housing has consistantly run and hit 4k full boost I would run meth and get the housing to run more psi and get it over the .70ar but all I hear is people are doing it but no one has proof

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

DO they have a graph showing the rpm's? Well perhaps does not matter so much showing mph.

BUT

I also notice the HX40 is running 10lbs of boost more than the GT turbo they are dynoing.

Basiclly that graph is showing me that in order to spool up like a Gt30 YOU Have to run 40psi of boost to only 30 psi on the GT30 turbo. How is this a good comparison as far as spool up is concerned?

What happens if you run 40psi on the GT30 then? And what size was the turbine hsing on the GT30? I think you mentioned a .63 A/R hsing on the GT35r.

I still say go divided all the way and you will have a superior setup vs a HX40 with a bullseye .55AR setup but it will cost a few extra $$$$.

The gt30 compressor can't hold 40psi. It was maxed out at 550whp. Here's a gt3076r compressor map. There's no way it could flow enough for much more and still hold 40psi by just 6K.

A turbo doesn't spool faster just because you raised the boost.

Slippi I'd wait for Steve to email you the logs or show us. Why is this so hard to believe? Arnt BW turbos doing the same thing? Look at the s256-258 turbos. . . BB turbos don't provide that much quicker spool. The bb center cartridge helps but it's no revolution. Compressor efficiency and turbine efficiency is the name of the game. The 50-trim uses 70s aerodynamics. Badman21, who posted the dynograph of the hx40 whipping the gt30r didn't post any spool numbers. For all we know it could be faster. Andy4g63 runs 280s (which kill spool speed) and a .70 a/r housing and he is seeing full boost before 4700rpms. Let Steve give you the logs. . . Better yet, it would be great for him to put it up here. But considering he tuned Torts 20g car, I don't think he's boasting an ideolgy.

EDIT: Look at it this way, My h1c has a turbine wheel with larger specs than a 50-trim turbine wheel (t3stage3). It also has a compressor wheel larger than a 50-trim in major diameter with about the same size inducer. Yet I reach 22+ psi by 3400rpms with my 272 style cams (laggier than stock cams). When does a BB50trim reach full boost? The small 16g did no better. Holset and Borg-Warner are doing something these other manufacturers arn't. Why wouldn't Holset pour the same tech in my OLDER h1c into the newer hx40? A very efficient turbine and compressor can yield dramatically better spool speed, because less exhaust energy is needed to drive it to a certain boost threshold.

[GORBS88]

Believe what you want!!!

Right now i am running the HX40 6 blade in the bigger T3 .70 A/R housing WITH 272 cams and i get 20 psi at 4400 RPM. I can't log so theres no proof on (paper) per say but that's how well it spools.
When i ran it with the bolt on housing i got 20psi by 4000 WITH 272's.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

Believe what you want!!!

Right now i am running the HX40 6 blade in the bigger T3 .70 A/R housing WITH 272 cams and i get 20 psi at 4400 RPM. I can't log so theres no proof on (paper) per say but that's how well it spools.
When i ran it with the bolt on housing i got 20psi by 4000 WITH 272's.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would u compare the way the car feels all through out the Rpm range comparing the .55 a/r housing compared to the .70 a/r housing?

I pretty much have an idea.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

Believe what you want!!!

Right now i am running the HX40 6 blade in the bigger T3 .70 A/R housing WITH 272 cams and i get 20 psi at 4400 RPM. I can't log so theres no proof on (paper) per say but that's how well it spools.
When i ran it with the bolt on housing i got 20psi by 4000 WITH 272's.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you had a turbo that spooled by 4k and could make 650whp why did you upgrade???Even more reason to go t3 .70ar because 4400 rpms full boost and more power is worth it.

Edit: After reading I didn't want it to come across like I was trying to call you out or say your lying I just want to see proof before I go investing because I'm looking at 185 for the hosuing then however much a custom dp setup is.

[Slippi84]

How do these turbos compare to the extended tip borg warner turbos? a hx40 and s362 can both be put in a .55ar bolt on housing and .70ar t3 housing. Performance wise anyone know which seems to perform better?

[andy4g63]

Let get two things straight.Whoever posted the results for full boost rpm, please specify the gear you were into. Cause I know for a fact that Gorbs posted his results for 4 gear, Steve 93, I think means 3rd. And second:

Look at the size of that freakin turbine wheel, it is 75mm inducer; 63mm exducer. That is not small by any means. GT 40 has 77mm wheel, for example. I am not comparing though.

[GORBS88]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

How would u compare the way the car feels all through out the Rpm range comparing the .55 a/r housing compared to the .70 a/r housing?

I pretty much have an idea.

Well at first when i was running it at lower boost levels (24) psi the bottom end seemed a little soggy cause it didnt hit as hard but once i turned the boost to 29psi it was a different animal. The torque hit would be just as good and the power woud just continue to climb until 6500 rpm then it really would pull HARD till 8000rpm.
The power band isnt so peaky and more usable. Realistically the smaller housing was more then enough for me but since i was able to sell my old manny and stuff it was alot easier to spend the little extra money.

I also ran the hx-35 in the small .55 housing and was alittle disapointed in it but i think the hx-40 (6blade) in the smaller housing did work really well.

[Slippi84]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

Well at first when i was running it at lower boost levels (24) psi the bottom end seemed a little soggy cause it didnt hit as hard but once i turned the boost to 29psi it was a different animal. The torque hit would be just as good and the power woud just continue to climb until 6500 rpm then it really would pull HARD till 8000rpm.
The power band isnt so peaky and more usable. Realistically the smaller housing was more then enough for me but since i was able to sell my old manny and stuff it was alot easier to spend the little extra money.

I also ran the hx-35 in the small .55 housing and was alittle disapointed in it but i think the hx-40 (6blade) in the smaller housing did work really well.

How about the 7 blade how come no one talks about the 7 blade hx40's???

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

Well at first when i was running it at lower boost levels (24) psi the bottom end seemed a little soggy cause it didnt hit as hard but once i turned the boost to 29psi it was a different animal. The torque hit would be just as good and the power woud just continue to climb until 6500 rpm then it really would pull HARD till 8000rpm.
The power band isnt so peaky and more usable. Realistically the smaller housing was more then enough for me but since i was able to sell my old manny and stuff it was alot easier to spend the little extra money.

So from 4k to 8k there is a substantial difference in the way the car pulls between the two housings! Not surprised, and to really enjoy my car when racing some of these 11 sec AMG's,EVO's, and High 11 low 12 sec BMW's,all I want to think about is midrange and topend resulting in a 120+ if not 130 mph run in the 1/4 mile. Anything below 125mph in the 1/4 mile is not good enuff for me.