Holset Turbos, PART 3

[IPT]

Cool HX35 Engine dyno video on a 2.3L Ford

[dsm-onster]

585 crank hp at 7200rpms & 28 psi is awesome with a 2 valve head! Even with the ported stock intake manifold (which does debated little) and a tubular header. The head did look aluminum, probably an Esslinger?. . . Still very impressive!!!

I just decided to take snap shots of my logs on the other computer. I can't get the files over to this PC. Both logs are with identical engine bay/mods but different turbos.

Mods:
Cold air intake ducting
K&N cone filter
3" intake pipe
Ebay FMIC (21" X 9" X 2.5"), Short route 2.25" intercooler piping
1g n/t throttlebody (no restrictive 1g turbo TB elbow)
FP2X cams and Manley springs
ARP head studs
Stock 6bolt with fresh rings
Evo3 exhaust manifold
DSMLink, Walbro 255hp, 1000cc injectors
3" turboback exhaust with a glasspack and resonator tip

The only differenc between the two setups is the 2g o2 housing used with the 16g and, for the h1c, the ebay tubular o2 housing with POOR flow characteristics(I don't recommend using it for an upgrade ).

The top is the not-so-small small 16g @ 22 psi. On that run, I saw as much as 36 lbs/min with my unported unclipped small16g with this setup on a maf that was showing lower airflow than actual because of maf overrun. As you can see in the pic of the first log below.

The bottem is the H1C @ only 20 psi and 15 degrees warmer intake temps. This is at 5280 rpms. This shows how much more flow the h1c allows with the same mods. The h1c flowed 1.9 lbs/min more at 2 psi less and 15 degrees warmer intake temp at the same altitude. 90 more hertz volume flow at only 5300 rpms and less boost!

If I was able to boost to 22 psi with the h1c without maf overrun, I would see around 4 lbs/min more airflow than the 16g by 5300rpms at 22 psi!!! The h1c boosts to 20psi by 3500-3700rpms. The h1c clearly rises to a higher horsepower potenial EARLIER than a 16g that is not being pushed to it's limit in those lower rpms. Very streetable, imo.

I paid the same for the small 16g with boost creep issues as I did for my h1c, bolt-on housing, rock-solid boosting ebay external gate, and ebay o2 housing. I did more work because I modified the o2 housing to accept the external gate.

. . . I had time to pull my head today. The compression results were #1-60, #2-90, #3-100, #4-120. Maf overrun led to egg-shaping every single fire ring on the head gasket.

[Mr Peepers]

Home of Turbo 4 Cylinder Mustang

An awesome budget build up of a junkyard 2.3 turbo Mustang(SVO).

The point when he starts using an hx-35:
January 7th 2003

Runs mid 12's@~110

[420a-t]

I havn't had time to check yet, but is the oil return flanged for a t3-style return fitting? It's a square hole, I've never ran anything but mitsu so I'm not sure.

How are you guys doing the return lines? I was thinking of using my stock return and cutting it so it still bolt's on to the pan, and clamping some ss hose onto that side and getting the correct fitting for the turbo. Thanks

[dsm-onster]

The flange is a t3 style flange. I used my t-bird TC garrett return line and coupled it to a ebay mhi style oil pan flange that has a big nipple welded to it. Do you have your t25 return line? Does that have a garrett t3 flange? It may be a little long.

I'd buy an ebay t3 to mitsu oil pan kit. They're very cheap. And it worked great with my t-netics turbo. I sold that with my t-netics. So I had to use my t-bird return line. Besides, the 14b/16g return lines are too expensive to destroy! Sell it on ebay or in the classifieds!

. . .Wow. In 4 months this THIRD thread is now over 2/3s the size of each of the other threads.

[420a-t]

Alright one more problem. I was trying to see where I needed to dent-in my coolant pipe for my turbo to clear, and the nipple that faces down off of the coolant pipe is in the way (1g head=1g water pipe). I can't dent it in, but I could cut it off and re-weld it somewhere else, but I really don't want to do that. I was thinking of a flange that goes inbewteen the turbo and the mani to lower the turbo out, but I think that might leak. Any suggestions? Could I use the coolant hole in the block that was used for a water-cooled turbo and get rid of that nipple? I'm so close to finishing my build!

[selmerguy]

here are some pics of a H1E holset. I was bidding on it but the power went out in my hooch here in the sandbox and I didnt get to win. Sucks, only went for 160 bucks. I have been reading alot on these things. They have a standard t3 oil drain flange and most people use a 3/8 npt fitting for the oil inlet. I am allready set up for this on my current setup. When I find one, other than the down pipe it should bolt right in.

[selmerguy]

More

[selmerguy]

Two more. I do have a question about the downpipes. I have red that even though the vband is three inchs. If you buy a 3 inch vband flange it wont seal right with the stock holsed exhaust housing. Those of you with the stock holset exhaust housing how well does your DP seal and where did you buy your flanges?

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by selmerguy

Two more. I do have a question about the downpipes. I have red that even though the vband is three inchs. If you buy a 3 inch vband flange it wont seal right with the stock holsed exhaust housing. Those of you with the stock holset exhaust housing how well does your DP seal and where did you buy your flanges?

Call BEP and ask or chk out some of the Ford,volvo,dodge truck forums,there are plenty of guys there that could tell you.

Worse comes to worse I would just have the present flange cut off and use an after market V-band setup which I will have to do anyway since my holset turbine housing outlet is only 2.5"'s.

By the way how many cm's is that turbine housing you r using? Is it an 18.5cm?

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by 420a-t

Alright one more problem. I was trying to see where I needed to dent-in my coolant pipe for my turbo to clear, and the nipple that faces down off of the coolant pipe is in the way (1g head=1g water pipe). I can't dent it in, but I could cut it off and re-weld it somewhere else, but I really don't want to do that. I was thinking of a flange that goes inbewteen the turbo and the mani to lower the turbo out, but I think that might leak. Any suggestions? Could I use the coolant hole in the block that was used for a water-cooled turbo and get rid of that nipple? I'm so close to finishing my build!

Oddly, I didn't have to dent my 1g pipe. It fit tight against it at I tightened the turbo/manifold bolts. The compressor housing did sit right at that nipple.

That nipple goes to the turbo water feed line. If you do still need to dent at that location to get the turbo to tighten up to the manifold, then you can dent and run an N/T water pipe which has no nipple there.

Another simple option is to bend the turbo water pipe up at a point somewhere under the exhaust manifold. It wouldn't take much of a bend if you bend it close enough to the water pump. Then bang down the flange that bolts the pipe to the block.

For a 1g, you can't go much lower with the turbo (use a spacer at the turbo/manifold point) because, if you have the compressor in a down-firing position, the engine-mounted rollstop is in the way. If yu have the compressor in an upfiring position then you put it even tighter against the water pipe. . . But you have a transmision-mounted roll stop since you're a 2g. You'll probably be fine for clearance with a spacer at the turbo. One MHI turbo inlet flange should be enough to clear the pipe. Use Mitsu metal gaskets. I've never had a problem with my one and it's been through a 14b, 16g, bep 60-1, and now the bep h1c.




Selmerguy, be glad you didn't get that h1e (One is in my living room) or should I say h1c (what I have on my car). There's nothing at all wrong with an h1c, but it wasn't an h1e, if that's what you wanted. I know it's an h1c because there is no map width enhancement groove cut in the webbing around the compressor inlet. The 54mm h1c (my turbo) has the webbing, but not the groove. The h1e has the groove. With that compressor inlet pic you posted, you would be able to see the groove on the inside of the inlet at the blade tips if it were an h1e. And you could see the bottem of the groove in the webbing.

That h1c has 4mm less inducer diameter than the h1e. The h1c should flow in the 20g to 50-trim range (I'll have to prove it). The h1e should flow in the gt3782 to gt4082 range (we have a compressor map). Both are upgrades for you.

My H1E (nevermind the bread crumbs ). . .

[kicker91laser]

Selmer, that h1e oil supply is not 3/8 npt, it is an inverted flare. I took mine to a local place that makes hoses/lines and found some fittings that will work.

[dsm-onster]

Here's comparison pics of the wh1e 19cm turbine housing versus the 18.5cm h1c turbine housing. Other than the larger t4 inlet, they both appear to have identical scroll geometry. The dial caliper measures the radius as being the same between the two at the same points along the scrolls. Since the area appears the same and the radius is the same, the 19cm housing should flow/spool close to the same as a 18.5cm housing.

Ceedawg wern't you suggesting that you would want the 18.5cm turbine housing on a 60mm hx40? All you would need is an h1e 19cm tubine housing if you can aquire just that. Or buy a whole h1e turbo witha 19cm housing like a wh1e part number3535870 from a 1994 C Series Cummins Transit Bus. Then, get the bigger 60mm compressor wheel. This shop supplies them for the h1c which has the same style vband compressor housing as the h1e, but without the MWE groove. Buy their 60mm wheel and matching MWE cover, or if you can get your cover cut for cheaper. Now you have MWE, a 60mm compressor, an hx40/h1e turbine, a t4 18.5-19cm turbine housing . With t4 turbine housing, you have a choice of a couple of very nice divided runner tubular exhaust manifolds to purchase instead of having to fab one up . Personally I like doing custom work though. It's worth the $800+ difference.

Note: the wh1e in it's stock turbine housing hangs lower.

[selmerguy]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Selmerguy, be glad you didn't get that h1e (One is in my living room) or should I say h1c (what I have on my car). There's nothing at all wrong with an h1c, but it wasn't an h1e, if that's what you wanted. I know it's an h1c because there is no map width enhancement groove cut in the webbing around the compressor inlet. The 54mm h1c (my turbo) has the webbing, but not the groove. The h1e has the groove. With that compressor inlet pic you posted, you would be able to see the groove on the inside of the inlet at the blade tips if it were an h1e. And you could see the bottem of the groove in the webbing.

That h1c has 4mm less inducer diameter than the h1e. The h1c should flow in the 20g to 50-trim range (I'll have to prove it). The h1e should flow in the gt3782 to gt4082 range (we have a compressor map). Both are upgrades for you.

My H1E (nevermind the bread crumbs ). . .

Good call on that. After more reading I found this out. Both the h1e and h1c will meet my goal of 400hp and 11's I think. I will find one eventually for the price that I want to pay.

I know the stock fitting on the oil inlet is inverted flare but I was reading that people are just using a 3/8 npt bung and are not having any problems with it leaking. Only one place for the oil to go....

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Here's comparison pics of the wh1e 19cm turbine housing versus the 18.5cm h1c turbine housing. Other than the larger t4 inlet, they both appear to have identical scroll geometry. The dial caliper measures the radius as being the same between the two at the same points along the scrolls. Since the area appears the same and the radius is the same, the 19cm housing should flow/spool close to the same as a 18.5cm housing.

Ceedawg wern't you suggesting that you would want the 18.5cm turbine housing on a 60mm hx40? All you would need is an h1e 19cm tubine housing if you can aquire just that. Or buy a whole h1e turbo witha 19cm housing like a wh1e part number3535870 from a 1994 C Series Cummins Transit Bus. Then, get the bigger 60mm compressor wheel. This shop supplies them for the h1c which has the same style vband compressor housing as the h1e, but without the MWE groove. Buy their 60mm wheel and matching MWE cover, or if you can get your cover cut for cheaper. Now you have MWE, a 60mm compressor, an hx40/h1e turbine, a t4 18.5-19cm turbine housing . With t4 turbine housing, you have a choice of a couple of very nice divided runner tubular exhaust manifolds to purchase instead of having to fab one up . Personally I like doing custom work though. It's worth the $800+ difference.

Note: the wh1e in it's stock turbine housing hangs lower.

here are the specs on the turbo I bought:

Compressor wheel: 60mm (2.36") inducer by 84mm (3.30") overall 6-blade

Exhaust wheel: 64mm (2.51") exducer by 76mm (2.99") overall

Exhaust housing: 14cm non-wastegated modded to fit my HX40 turbine wheel but only has a 2.5 inch outlet.

Here are the pics of my 6 blade Holset HX40. It does'nt use the V-band clamps. It uses bolts. If I could find a 22cm that uses bolts,that would be another nice option to try. I also have the groove in the compressor housing if you notice. Unless I buy a H1E I'd have to transfer all the parts over since I'm thinking the 22cm housing only comes in V-band clamp form.:







The housing that came with the turbo(HX40 6blade) I have is a bored out 14cm housing where the inlet ports have been opened up to match the gasket. This housing also has a 2.5 inch outlet.

This exh housing I have pictured way above is obviously a 18.5cm T3 flanged,but needs to be bored out. Is that the case with the T4 flanged 19cm on the outlet side. 2.5"? or is it 3"?

[dsm-onster]

Cee, what I'm saying is that the h1e 19cm turbine housing is a bolt on for your hx40. I think that will be plenty turbine housing for your 6 blade hx40. I too think a 14cm housing is too small for the flow potential of an hx40 with a 6 blade compressor.

The compressor housing for the h1e has a vband attachment. No machine work for the h1e turbine housing I have right here to go onto the hx40 you have there. Snag a blown wh1e or h1e with the 19cm housing or findjust the 19cm housing. I just don't want to part with mine yet I want to determine how laggy it is first. And that will be only after I max out my h1c and see how laggy the 18.5cm housing is on that.

[ceedawg]