I think ive told you twice now.....if your car creeped BEFORE you put the catalytic converter on IT WILL creep when you take it off. You have done nothing to prevent creep(after you installed the cat) you simply added fuel support modifications. Visit Oldman's link he provided earlier, the pictures are enough to expain what he is talking about.
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Scott
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First off, the question never was will it creep when I take the cat back off, of course its going to creep i havent done anything to fix that, its just the higher boost you run the less exhaust runs through the wastegate
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
i would be very interested in you explaining exactly what you mean by porting PROPERLY on top of what slowboy already ported, thanks
What SBR and most $90 port job offered by vendor focuses on enlarging the inlet to increase flow and improve spool up. The main problem with boost creep is the entrance of the wastegate path in the turbine inlet. If you look straight down the turbo inlet you will see that the wastegate entrance is kinda hidden, exhaust will have to make a almost 90 degree turn to enter the wastegate. The key is to knock off as much material as possible on top of the wastegate entrance in order to expose the entrance so there's a direct path to it when the flapper opens. Without doing this, anything you do after that like O2 dump, external wastegate on O2 and your 34mm flapper will not be a guaranteed success. You also want to port the area behind the flapper to allow it to open more. If you've done this properly and you're still creeping, an external wastegate mounted on manifold like what rowlex showed you would be the only thing left to do. Good luck.
that was part of the question, but the majority of it was will simply turning up the boost to 21 or so psi cure the problem, but thanks oldman i guess ill try the porting to ensure no creep
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
that was part of the question, but the majority of it was will simply turning up the boost to 21 or so psi cure the problem, but thanks oldman i guess ill try the porting to ensure no creep
Turning the boost up to cure boost creep is a bandaid (if it evendoes anything, you might just creep higher..)
Old man is dead on.. port the crap outta that stuff, give the exhaust a clear path to the flapper & you'll be good.
btw OLDMAN! clear out your PM box, i'm tryin to ask you about the new turbo you got!!!
I'm droppin the turbo out tomorrow, i understand what to port on the inlet side of the turbo just not exactly sure what you guys mean about porting so the flapper can open completely but not enough to break the seal, does anybody have any pictures, that would help the most
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
I'm droppin the turbo out tomorrow, i understand what to port on the inlet side of the turbo just not exactly sure what you guys mean about porting so the flapper can open completely but not enough to break the seal, does anybody have any pictures, that would help the most
Once you have it out, open the flapper and you will see that the lever that holds the flapper makes contact with the path wall preventing it from opening all the way. Knock off some material behind the lever to allow the flapper to open till it's parallel to the flow. Keep in mind while you do this that you want the flanges to mate as perfectly as possible so take off just enough and not more. Since you've decided to do this, I would like to remind you again that the key is in the inlet. Have fun.
Yeah i've really researched about porting the inlet and I think I know what i need to do there, sorry i didnt listen to you earlier OLDMAN i appreciate all the help, i think im going to follow this picture on what do as far as porting the inlet
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Yes, I think you got the point on the inlet. Follow that pic on the inlet and read up on the rest here , I didn't want to give the link before because the article didn't discuss porting the inlet specifically for creeping purposes. Do a test run with the actuator arm off and see how much pressure you are able to build before you take the turbo out. I was able to build about 7psi @6k before the port job and 1psi @ 6k after. If you can achieve something similar to that, removing the cat should not be a problem. Happy porting and post back results.
Right across from the cooling fan, the empty part of the lower heat shield, you will see a rod (actuator arm) extended from the actuator and connects to a lever which opens and shuts the wastegate door (flapper). Remove the cotterpin that holds the rod to the lever and pull the rod off. Test run with the lever just hanging there so it can open freely.
i do have a 34mm flapper so i guess i should just focus mainly on the inlet, is there anything else i should do while the turbo is pulled
Sure, port match the manifold collector to your turbine and both to a 7cm gasket. If you choose to do this, I don't see any reason not to, make sure you measure the 7cm gasket and make sure it's 7cm before you proceed. As I found out through my last purchase, not all 7cm gaskets are made equal. I would also suggest not to assume the flapper area is already ported just because a 34mm mod was done on it. The key is to make sure the flapper opens to where it's parallel to flow, no more no less, to maximize flow and cut down the cross section for possible disturbance. All this might be confusing now but once you have it off, things will become more clear.
No i think i got it, port the inlet to make sure the air has a easy path to the wastegate, port behind the flapper in order to let it open up to parallel to let the most air pass through, and since the turbo will be dropped port both the inlet of the turbo and the exit of the exhaust manifold to 7cm, and as far as i can reach into the ex. mani, i appreciate it all guys, ill keep you updated, as long as i can bring the boost creep down to or around 20 ill be happy, thanks
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Alright dropped the turbo today, what a biatch, took off my exhaust and have it all ready to just weld the test pipe right in there, ran into some bad news, had two of the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts seize up on me, and finally resorted to breaking them off, then when i tried to drill them out there was no chance, i guess im gonna have to take it to a machine shop tomorrow, but as far as slowboy's port job it was just as OLDMAN said, the air has to take an extreme 90 degree turn right into the wastegate opening, so i'm still in the process off porting that away to resemble the picture that i posted earlier, as far as the flapper the flapper already opens parallel although i'll probably port some more just in case, this would have been very smooth if it wasnt for the damn bolts seizing up, I really hope this cures the creep or controls it somewhat because there is no way I'm ever dropping the turbo out to do this, so im porting the ever living hell outta this stuff, oh and by the way my exhaust to turbo gasket is cracked too ill keep ya guys posted
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Alright dropped the turbo today, what a biatch, took off my exhaust and have it all ready to just weld the test pipe right in there, ran into some bad news, had two of the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts seize up on me, and finally resorted to breaking them off, then when i tried to drill them out there was no chance, i guess im gonna have to take it to a machine shop tomorrow, ,
Anti-seize on the re-install, don't make the same mistake twice.
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but as far as slowboy's port job it was just as OLDMAN said, the air has to take an extreme 90 degree turn right into the wastegate opening
I'm not saying Slowboy did a bad job, I'm saying most of the time when vendors say "port job", they're not talking about boost creep.
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I really hope this cures the creep or controls it somewhat
I have put my reputation on the line here. I ask that you post pictures of the turbo before you call it complete, let's make sure it's done right.
I'm not saying Slowboy did a bad job, I'm saying most of the time when vendors say "port job", they're not talking about boost creep.
I agree, I had my turbo ported by Slowboy when I bought it. It was a good port job for the price though its not enough to fend off boost creep. I was still creeping to ~20psi by 6000rpm with 34mm flapper.
Another tip is to spend some time porting the wastegate exit chamber. There is a Vfaq that does a good job of explaining how this is done.
I'll post up some pics tonight old man, does anybody have a picture of what the wastegate exit should look like as with every comment i get a lil more confused about this part of the port job..
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
I'll post up some pics tonight old man, does anybody have a picture of what the wastegate exit should look like as with every comment i get a lil more confused about this part of the port job..
If memory serves me right you have an o2 eliminator downpipe and this is why I told you not to port too much on the the wastegate exit, you want to match the turbine flange to the downpipe as perfectly as possible. If you had a portable o2 housing like stock 2G or EVOIII, I would have ask you to open up the wastegate exit as much as possible then match the o2 housing side.
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Keep in mind while you do this that you want the flanges to mate as perfectly as possible so take off just enough and not more.
okay gotcha, yeah well im gonna go finish up porting up the inlet to make the air an easier path to the wastegate, i think im gonna mirror polish it as well since i have it off, then im going to gasket match the exhaust mani, ill have pictures later so you can rate my job oldman
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Alright not near done just wondering what you guys thought of the port job of the inlet so far, and if you think i need any porting done to the wastegate flapper area, and also dont know if this could have had anything to do with my creep or anything, but the turbo to o2 housing gasket that slowboy sent me covered about 1/16th or so of the actual wastegate flapper area so I trimmed the gasket to mirror image the other, but here are the pitures
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Are you using a dremel to do this? Looks like you got discouraged because you realized it was going to take a lot of time using the dremel. I suggest getting a $10 electric die-grinder and a $12 1/4" cylinder shape carbide burr, a dremel with diamond burr will do the job as well but you have to be patient. My biggest criticism would be that you need to open up the entire inlet to the flange instead of leaving the step there, compare yours to the picture on last page and you should have answered your own question. Now go and finish it right.
im wasnt finished yet, was just making sure that I didnt need anything done to the wastegate flapper and that i was on the right track as far as the entrance is concerned, I plan on evening everything out and making a more direct flow to the wastegate, and im using air tools, with a carbide bit on it, hasnt taken that much time, im gettin some titanium bits later to try and get those damned bolts out, what could i do to the flapper to make it an A+?
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
as far as the flapper the flapper already opens parallel although i'll probably port some more just in case
Just beause with no o2 housing on the flapper open parallel doesnt mean it will once you bolt the o2 housing back on. Just something for you to check out while you have everythign off.
Alright guys after about 3 hours of porting and messing around with this thing i think i got it pretty good and i learned alot for my first time porting, but OLDMAN can you please rerate me and tell me if this is up to your standards, and the pics dont do it justice its alot shinier than this also took a little more off the flapper so that it would open up parallel, even used a level to double check that it was opening at a 90 degree angle
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
What happen to the other side of the inlet? Why is the step still there? Port it so that the flange and housing become one but make sure you use common sense and keep it consistant with a cone shape. Can you still feel your fingers after all the vibration? Still up for porting the manifold? Oh, make sure you wear a goggle.
okay im gonna make the flange and the housing one as I know see how only the side where the wastegate is does that, then i might polish it a little better, my fingers are toast man i cant feel them at all, definitely waitin to do the wastegate tomorrow, it sucks, lol but im gettin better at this i think haha plus tonight i can pray that all this work wasnt for nothing
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2002 BMW M3
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
I would also suggest not to assume the flapper area is already ported just because a 34mm mod was done on it. The key is to make sure the flapper opens to where it's parallel to flow, no more no less, to maximize flow and cut down the cross section for possible disturbance. All this might be confusing now but once you have it off, things will become more clear.
ill keep ya guys posted
also took a little more off the flapper so that it would open up parallel, even used a level to double check that it was opening at a 90 degree angle
