Low max timing?

Omega · 05-21-2003, 10:47 PM

I started logging today. I followed a write up on how to set the Lo settings from someone on this site.

I set the Hi settings to what the Lo side liked and took it from there.

For some reason my timing climbs when I get on it but flattens out at 19 deg and stays there throughout the run. It is nice and linear as it climbs, but it just sits at the 19 deg once it gets there.

What's the deal?

pneumo · 05-21-2003, 11:37 PM

Could you list the timing at each rpm in 500 rpm increments? That would show if it's doing something normal or not. For example, on a stock 1G the timing will start low at 4000 rpm, like 9 degrees, then advance up to 18 degrees at 6000 rpm, then drop to 15 degrees at 7000. Something like that.

nowayout · 05-22-2003, 08:01 AM

my I run in the high teams and low 20's at higher rpm like 5k and up

Omega · 05-22-2003, 09:13 AM

It wasn't as flat as I first thought, but it is still odd. I think I need to add a little fuel at the 4-5K range.

RPM Timing O2

3500 15 0.94
4011 11 0.98
4425 12 0.98
4496 11 1
5476 14 1
6027 17 1
6425 19 1
6601 19 1

I should also mention that I have boost creep. It creeps very slowly from 13 psi to 20 at high RPM's. Normal driving it stays where it should... oh, and the BOV is fluttering. I am debating ditching the Greddy and going with a 1G.

pneumo · 05-22-2003, 10:47 AM

The timing looks OK, nothing dangerous happening there. Definately work out those other tuning issues, it can only help. The O2's are rich, but I'd leave that alone since you're creeping to 20 psi and the exra richness keeps you safe. Just keep looking for timing getting pulled.

Omega · 05-22-2003, 11:32 AM

Thanks for your help.

That first log was with the high settings -10 accross the board. This next one is with -12... I think it is a little less mid range but I don't have the data here.

The timing is MUCH better this time. It looks like it is still running a little rich, but as you said, better safe than sorry.

RPM Timing O2

3445 12 .92
4101 11 .94
4523 13 .96
5027 13 .98
5531 16 .98
6027 19 .98
6527 20 .98

I think the next step is to get the BOV sorted out. The part throttle flutter is annoying. If I reduce the throttle while this is happening, the car falls on its' face. When it does that, the timing jumps to 28 deg, and the O2 goes all over the place.

kpt4321 · 05-22-2003, 09:19 PM

It looks like you have the tuning under control.

2g guys: is the timing normally that low around 4 and 5 thousand rpm, or is it possible that he's getting knock retard? I'm not as familiar with the 2g timing maps...

There is nothing wrong with leaning it out a bit more until you start causing the timing to drop. When you reach this point, just go a tad richer to eliminate knock.

...Kyle T.
93 TSi AWD "TURBO4"
14b - 12.8 @ 108

95GSXracer · 05-22-2003, 11:09 PM

Kyle, thats exactly the timing I get at those RPMs. I checked my log from the dyno to verify it. 12-13.

Looks normal to me. As you continue to lean out airflow signal will drop, moving you up on the timing maps.

Omega · 05-23-2003, 05:06 PM

Now, based on this graph, it is me or is it retarding the timing as soon as I get on it? I see that it drops WAY down, but then slowly climbs. Would that constitute knock?

95GSXracer · 05-23-2003, 10:05 PM

No. Thats perfectly normal. timing will drop to around 8-10 degrees when airflow rises sharply, and it should. The ECU is programmed that way for a reason. If timing is dropping to 10, I'd leave it alone, or see if you can lean out the midrange a bit. If it drops to below 8-9, it may worth trying to add some fuel there and see if it comes up. If not its not a huge deal. Every setup is different.

nine5raptor · 05-24-2003, 10:22 AM

I usually drop to 6-7 with the mid leaned 10%. this is what it did stock. if I go any richer it goes to 4 or lower (I can make it go on the negative side by adding ~ 20% fuel).

95GSXracer · 05-24-2003, 11:08 AM

Adding that much fuel will always kill timing. Becuase the ECU see a lot more airflow, and you move down on the timing maps.

Correction to my last post, everywhere I said boost I meant to say timing, lol. Boost on the brain these days I guess...

kpt4321 · 05-24-2003, 03:45 PM

What do you have for fuel injectors?

Try both adding and subtracting fuel in one or two percent increments, whatever nets you the best timing is the way to leave it.

...Kyle T.

Omega · 05-24-2003, 09:54 PM

95GSXracer:

Yeah, I figured you were refering to timing

kpt4321:

I have 550's

My initial thinking was that the timing should advance much more than the logs show.

Now I have to figure out what the deal is with my Greddy BOV and the MBC. They are a bitch to adjust properly at the moment and I am getting some WEIRD engine stuttering at ~10 PSI, part throttle.