So, I have just purchased an EVO VIII ECU on ebay for $150. With some very minor rewirings, this ECU should be able to run my '99GSX. Then, I will be able to use EcuFlash with no issues. I plan on having this installed by either next week or the week after, so I will keep everyone updated. If I am successful with this, this may be the most powerful tuning solution on the market for the money. Complete control over a mitsubishi factory ECU for under $200!
If you get this to work, please let us know. I know I said a while back I was going to do this, but just haven't gotten around to it. From what I can tell, all you need to do is switch pins 8 & 22 and it should work. Is that what you came up with?
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So, I have just purchased an EVO VIII ECU on ebay for $150. With some very minor rewirings, this ECU should be able to run my '99GSX. Then, I will be able to use EcuFlash with no issues. I plan on having this installed by either next week or the week after, so I will keep everyone updated. If I am successful with this, this may be the most powerful tuning solution on the market for the money. Complete control over a mitsubishi factory ECU for under $200!
It would be awesome if this works, ill be interested in it if it does also.
Evo VIII ECU??? Was that a typo or will it really work? I know about the Evo V but VIII? If so this would be a wonderful discovery!
No, that wasn't a typo. Before I decided to try using an Evo VIII ECU, I did quite a bit of searching for why it would or wouldn't work. After all my searching, I found no credible info pointing either way. Two minor issues I am aware of is the injector firing order (I believe they are different from the Evo VIII and a '99 2G), and the engine immobilizer settings in the Evo VIII Ecu (which I have already figured out how to disable in EcuFlash).
So, I called Road Race Engineering to discuss this possibility with them. They told me that the have heard of people successfully swapping an VIII Ecu in a 2G, but have never seen it with their own eyes. They told me that if we can figure out how to get around the engine immobilizer, they don't see why it wouldn't work. Apparently, resistance, voltage, and all that other great electrical stuff (I'm not an electrician!) are the same in both Ecus. I'm supposed to be bringing my car down there either next week or the week after to have them try this.
For me, I am hopefull because RRE has told me that they have personally seen many Evo VIII guys switch out their ECUs for 1G Eproms to run DSMLink...
So...
If a 1G Ecu can work in a 2G eclipse, and a 1G Ecu can work in an Evo VIII, why wouldn't an Evo VIII Ecu work in a 2G eclipse? In the math world, I believe this is referred to as the law of syllagism?
I'm definitely hearing ya man. Most definitely keep us posted. I'm itching to get an Evo VIII ECU as soon as I hear the good news. It's great of you taking the time to try this out. This would be a great alternative to DSMLink (ECMLink).
It's just a patch harness I bought from Mach V (ECU Patch Harness). I bought it so I don't have to mess with the factory wiring, I can make the changes outside the car, plug it in and go.
Disabling the immobilizer in software on an Evo ECU is very simple: just flip bit four of periphery 0 (FAA) from 1 to 0. After that, you can set the immobilizer value to whatever you want, although I'd suggest keeping a record of it for resale later.
You'll want to familiarize yourself with the current state of Evo ECU tuning if you decide to make the switch; I'd recommend a bit of reading at EvoM's EcuFlash forum as well as the Evo ECU wiki. Specifically, you'll want to do a bit of searching on the specific ROM ID you're working with. Some ROM IDs have an upgrade path that make them more useful or correct specific problems; for example, instead of the 96940011 ROM that came with my '05 Evo, I'm running a 96530006 (an EDM ROM) to free up room for additional code. Other upgrades clear up problems with particular trouble codes being thrown.
Finally, a user named tephra on EvoM has released a set of very useful pre-patched ROMs you can make use of, incorporating NLTS (in addition to the built-in stationary rev limit), live map switching, valet mode, and a few other handy items.
The "100 times flashing" is only a guideline from the factory. After that they make no claims on whether or not the ecu will be good. Even then you are not reflashing the entire ecu, but just specific parts of the code. For example, if you are just correcting for fuel trims the you are only flashing the injector latency part (dead time). That section will be down to "99 flashes" while the rest (fuel and timing tables) still has "100 flashes."
PS
If anyone close to Corona, CA has a 99 ecu, let me know. I'd love to see this work.
Speaking purely for the Evo side of things: 100 is nothing when you start getting into this kind of thing. When I'm testing something on my Evo, I'll reflash 5-10 times a day, and there's more than a few people on EvoM who have reflashed their ECUs thousands of times without incident.
I can't speak to the late 2g ECU, however.
Edit: and turbolarry is absolutely correct. EcuFlash, as currently implemented, does not reflash the entire ROM, only changed portions, on at least the Evo and pre-CAN Subaru targets.
There is one thing to note though, the spec of H8 based processors we have in late 2Gs says you can only flash the ECU ~100 times.
Same might apply to Evo ECUs. Then again, 100 flashes is considerable amount.
I don't think there is any limit on the Evo Ecus as far as flashing. I've probably flashed my old Evo over 100 times and noticed no issues.
Just to give everyone an update:
I just got off the phone with RRE, and Im just waiting on some parts to get in (16G turbo, piping, etc) which should be there late this week early next week. As soon as those parts come in, ill drop off my car and the Evo Ecu I picked up for them to work on.
Since they are going to put in the evo ecu, will you be getting the how to for doing it yourself? I don't think many care that it can be done as much as HOW to do it. . . Most of us don't have the time, cash to go to RRE . If we did we would just buy dsmlink and a 1995 eprom. The differences in all the sensors like the maf, and the whole fan control thing is what we'd all need to understand. Is the knock sensor the same, or close enough for the evo ecu to understand it correctly? What pins go where? I know that all this can be experimented with, but since they have the leg work already done apparently, . . . maybe I'm being greedy, but I want to get the details.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
If any of the sensors aren't compatible, it'd be great to know how to modify them or replace them with Evo ones. The necessary pinout changes would be great to have detailed as well. Most of us who'd be going this route would be doing it ourselves because of budget constraints and the cost effectiveness.
Thanx, Ed. Actually, I already have that bookmarked. I can do the logical. But as mentioned, it's how the ecu will work with each of the 2g sensors is the info that is needed.
That is an GREAT forum, BTW.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
I agree with you guys. I wanted to do this as an ecomical alternative to DSMlink. SO being able to do it myself for ~$200 is great if it works. If I need to change a few sensors, I'm ok with that, as long as I don't start getting up to $500 total. Having said that, I still think ECUflash will be much better for tuning than DSMlink even if it cost a little more than $200-300.
I got on the board and did a search to see what everyone thought of EvoScan. I have a 1998 GST with a 95 ECU (and a 2map keydiver chip installed). Jeff at keydiver recommended this logging software to me and I recently bought it. I am waiting on the cable but while I was reading this thread I noticed that noone ever said it would work on a 95 eprom ecu. So my question is will it work on my 98 gst with my 95 eprom ecu?
EDIT: I also realize that I could use DSMLink...thats what I originally bought the ECU for but I was talked out of it by my mechanic because I dont know much about tuning and I didnt want to wake up one morning and have an issue that I couldnt fix.
So my question is will it work on my 98 gst with my 95 eprom ecu?
Well, we don't know for sure, but please tell us when you get the cable.
Concerning other things, I will not update the article with Evo VIII stuff for now as we don't know about knock sensor compatibility and the rest of the sensors. But that seems a really nice option, so I'm following it very closely when I see something.
I am also trying to reach the Colby to get more information concerning what can be done about H8 CPUs.
Well, we don't know for sure, but please tell us when you get the cable.
Concerning other things, I will not update the article with Evo VIII stuff for now as we don't know about knock sensor compatibility and the rest of the sensors. But that seems a really nice option, so I'm following it very closely when I see something.
I am also trying to reach the Colby to get more information concerning what can be done about H8 CPUs.
Ok will do. I am waiting for the cable, my tranny (its at TRE) and my motor (which is almost done). After I get it back I will let yall know how it works. I also have a palm for logging so I will have somthing to compare it against.
It's quite possible that you will have to decrease the baud rate, the one I posted was for 97/98/99 ECUs. You might have to decrease it ~10 times. But I don't know for sure.
ewoevo, how is ecu flash better than dsmlink? Not doubting that may verywell be, just would like to know the comparison a little better. It's more affordable, for sure. And what else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19BLACKGST98
. . . but I was talked out of it by my mechanic because I dont know much about tuning and I didnt want to wake up one morning and have an issue that I couldnt fix.
What will happen one morning that wouldn't happen with a preset chip? It's not like you sleepwalk and monkey with your dsmlink settings. If you dial in a particular tune, it stays put. . . do you have battery connection problems with your 2g? Do you not have a computer to reflash the tune back if you disconnect your battery?
. . . According to all the information about evoscan in several forums, the 1995-1996 computers cause to slow of a data transfer rate to function well enough to log.
EDIT: madman types fast like a mad man
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
I do have a laptop and I'm buying another laptop that will always stay in my car. I have had a few issues with the ground to my battery. I figured he knew what he was talking about since he uses DSM link. I really don't know much about tuning.
Well. Fixing your battery ground is part of stage zero maintenance. So I don't think you should worry about it when it comes time for you to buy a tuning solution
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Ive had the car since 03. The ground thing only started this last year and might be fixed (not sure right now because there is no motor in it). Anyways I got a reply back about EvoScan working on my car.
"The newest versions will finally work on the 95-97 ECU's. I sent Hamish a 1995
ECU so he could break the protocol.
I think you do have to change the timing formula though, as he subtracts 10 from
it, and he shouldn't."
Since they are going to put in the evo ecu, will you be getting the how to for doing it yourself? I don't think many care that it can be done as much as HOW to do it. . . Most of us don't have the time, cash to go to RRE . If we did we would just buy dsmlink and a 1995 eprom. The differences in all the sensors like the maf, and the whole fan control thing is what we'd all need to understand. Is the knock sensor the same, or close enough for the evo ecu to understand it correctly? What pins go where? I know that all this can be experimented with, but since they have the leg work already done apparently, . . . maybe I'm being greedy, but I want to get the details.
I agree with you. Here is the problem though: This looks way too easy to be true, and this is my daily driver.
So, I am actually expecting something to go wrong or not work. And although it looks increadibly easy to simply switch a few injector wires, I'm banking on some unanticiapted challenges that RRE is better equiped to deal with than myself.
If there are no other unanticipated issues, then great. If issues are discovered, RRE will try their best to solve them, and I will share the issues/fixes with the dsm community. The knowledge of how to accomplish this is what I'm searching for, and I think the cheapest, safest way to attain that knowledge is with RRE's help.
Ok, is there someone who could send me a ROM image of his ECU to me, I have one GSX reference image I would like to compare with others. Basically I'm hoping to find if there is a check sum in there.
I guess the GST image would be the best bet, because GST had a speed limiter enabled contrary to GSX. So the ROMs should be different and so should the check sums, if there are any.
Currently I have a feeling that we might be unable to flash our code on ECU because the Flash memory is divided in blocks and we have a check sum for each block that is verified somewhere. Since we don't calculate check sums in our code, the flash just fails.
For me, I am hopefully because RRE has told me that they have personally seen many Evo VIII guys switch out their ECUs for 1G Eproms to run DSMLink...
So...
If a 1G Ecu can work in a 2G eclipse, and a 1G Ecu can work in an Evo VIII, why wouldn't an Evo VIII Ecu work in a 2G eclipse? In the math world, I believe this is referred to as the law of syllagism?
...Results to come soon....
Here's a pm discussion I've been having with a gentleman who doesn't have posting privileges in the thread yet:
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddevo
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm-onster
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddevo
hi ,,cant post in your thread evo ecu,, i have sucsessfully ran an evo3 same as your 2g engine i think on an evo 7 ecu ,, had to change some ecu pins around for fan control ,rescale inj 510 cc and maf also fit and wire an obd2 port and snip one wire to the ignitor to stablise the tachometer at idle also evo3 only has 2 wire o2 and no rear o2 these can be tuned off in the ecu along with immobiliser code apart from that it runs very very well. if you need any info or rom def files let me know. hope this works out for you ,,cheers todd
My friend, THANK YOU!!!!
The evo8 and evo7 ecu is intechangeable. . . This means that the knock, coolant, and all other sensors, other than the maf (the evo3 maf is just like the 2g maf) signals are the same to the ecu!!!! This what i'm looking for. I will post your pm in the thread unless you don't want me to.
Again thank you for taking the time to let me know this,
Matt
no worries post it up,, i found that the 7 ecu was easier in my case as my evo4 doesnt have egr valve hadware and no rear o2 sensor but i know of one evo 3 running evo8 ecu (4plug) as some of our evo8s have three 3plug ecu send me your e-mail and il send you on an evo7 ra rom with maf and inj rescaled for 510 cc inj (std evo3) and an evo8 rom with same ,, you will have to tune with ecuflash as these are car specific ,, these roms also have tephra mods switchable maps/valet mode/auto ics/cel on knock etc with valet mode as is inthe 7 ra rom to start the car press throttle to the floor switch on ign eng light flashes fast when the eng light flashes slowly let off the throttle and start as normal, you can change the settings as you wish also has 2 byte load and rpm you have to set buad rate to 62500 in evoscan as it logs faster
More Syllagism: If the evo3 ecu can be swapped for the evo7-8 ecu, and the evo3 ecu is just like the 2g ecu except for the MDP sensor and rear o2; then the evo7-9 ecu can swap in with out the need to swap in other sensor except for the maf, since the maf is the only sensor that is different. Which is a good thing, because the evo maf can read as much airflow as a 3" gm maf. But you can edit the maf hertz transfer function in the evo8 ecu with EcuFlash correct? So technically you don't need the evo8 maf, you just need the right code for the evo8 ecu.
Also, all you need from a JY is the ecu end of a 2g wiring harness and a 1g ecu plug, 2g knock sensor, 2g thermostat housing with the different 2g coolant sensors, the coolant sensor pigtail, and a 2g maf; and you can run a 2g ecu in your 1g. OR with the right code for the 2g maf sensor, an evo8 ecu in a 1g. . . Fully editable, knock count output, %IDC output, Faster/better proccessor, GREAT tunes designed for the evo have already been created for it.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Last edited by dsm-onster; 10-16-2008 at 06:38 AM.
Here's a pm discussion I've been having with a gentleman who doesn't have posting privileges in the thread yet:
More Syllagism: If the evo3 ecu can be swapped for the evo7-8 ecu, and the evo3 ecu is just like the 2g ecu except for the MDP sensor and rear o2; then the evo7-9 ecu can swap in with out the need to swap in other sensor except for the maf, since the maf is the only sensor that is different. Which is a good thing, because the evo maf can read as much airflow as a 3" gm maf. But you can edit the maf hertz transfer function in the evo8 ecu with EcuFlash correct? So technically you don't need the evo8 maf, you just need the right code for the evo8 ecu.
Also, all you need from a JY is the ecu end of a 2g wiring harness and a 1g ecu plug, 2g knock sensor, 2g thermostat housing with the different 2g coolant sensors, the coolant sensor pigtail, and a 2g maf; and you can run a 2g ecu in your 1g. OR with the right code for the 2g maf sensor, an evo8 ecu in a 1g. . . Fully editable, knock count output, %IDC output, Faster/better proccessor, GREAT tunes designed for the evo have already been created for it.
Very great info, thanks! I do believe EcuFlash has the ability to tweak maf hertz. I've never really looked into it, as I never had the need to.
. If we did we would just buy dsmlink and a 1995 eprom. The differences in all the sensors like the maf, and the whole fan control thing is what we'd all need to understand. Is the knock sensor the same, or close enough for the evo ecu to understand it correctly? What pins go where? I know that all this can be experimented with, but since they have the leg work already done apparently, . . . maybe I'm being greedy, but I want to get the details.
What will happen one morning that wouldn't happen with a preset chip? It's not like you sleepwalk and monkey with your dsmlink settings. If you dial in a particular tune, it stays put. . . do you have battery connection problems with your 2g? Do you not have a computer to reflash the tune back if you disconnect your battery?
