I believe you gas mileage is good because your running real lean during cruising. Everyone I know thats ran e85 said running in the 16afr's is dangerous and can burn up a valve.
Yea, i think some one else had warned me about th esame thing. My theory is that i've ran a couple hundred miles on the interstate running as lean as 17-19:1 on pump gas and never had any issues. And as i pointed out in another thread, honda experimented with lean burn models of the accord and accord wagon that ranas lean as 22:1 on highway and during warmup after teh first 30 seconds of afterstart.
Advertisement
To browse the forums without the advertisements above, Login/Register
Yea, i think some one else had warned me about th esame thing. My theory is that i've ran a couple hundred miles on the interstate running as lean as 17-19:1 on pump gas and never had any issues. And as i pointed out in another thread, honda experimented with lean burn models of the accord and accord wagon that ranas lean as 22:1 on highway and during warmup after teh first 30 seconds of afterstart.
Good point, when tuning the lo throttle on the wbo2, what throttle percentage should I be at. I mean 10% throttle and 15% throttle drastically changes the wbo2 reading.
Well I got the car tuned out pretty good now, lo throttle hits 15.5 afr lowest under any load. WOT is 10.9-11.1 afr. Here is a third gear data log. Boost hits 30psi and by 7000rpms its holding 26psi.
Im going to have it dynoed and then take it too the track. Im going to test this clutch and tranny setup pretty hard. I just have to wait till my fiance has our second little girl. She is due June 24th so its pretty close.
Wow those are great timing numbers. Looks like you got a pretty good tune out of it, especially at 30psi. Keep us updated with the track and dyno results.
Well I got the car tuned out pretty good now, lo throttle hits 15.5 afr lowest under any load. WOT is 10.9-11.1 afr. Here is a third gear data log. Boost hits 30psi and by 7000rpms its holding 26psi.
Im going to have it dynoed and then take it too the track. Im going to test this clutch and tranny setup pretty hard. I just have to wait till my fiance has our second little girl. She is due June 24th so its pretty close.
I'd be interested in knowing about how hot the air is coming out of the charge pipe before the intercooler at this boost level. Im pretty convinced that (me personally) I will not get 400 HP at 30psi on this turbo (I have one now). Its all about efficiency. How well do RC 1200 cc injectors idle? I havent read anything (good or bad) about them.
I'd be interested in knowing about how hot the air is coming out of the charge pipe before the intercooler at this boost level. Im pretty convinced that (me personally) I will not get 400 HP at 30psi on this turbo (I have one now). Its all about efficiency. How well do RC 1200 cc injectors idle? I havent read anything (good or bad) about them.
Well I can tell you one thing. There is deffinently a difference in the "butt dyno" from 24psi to 30psi on this turbo. Tires expecially spin a lot easier at the 30psi also so it is making more power at the higher boost level. Even if the intake temp is high the e85 doesnt care, .
The injectors idle great, about the same as when I was running 550's, just likes to dip a little more when you let the revs drop. Im also still at 0* base timing so that may be the issue. I think I may get a keydriver chip soon so I can get a lot more out of it and make it better for DD.
Well finally welded up a o2 bung in by downpipe. Put the stock o2 back in and took the feel from the wbo2 to the ecu off. Now the car hits 14.7 all the time while cruising. Its amazing how much easier it is to tune when the o2 is working like it should. Gas mileage is so much better now that the ecu stuck in open loop. The wbo2 signal from the aem to the ecu was out of its range. Should be hitting the dyno soon but I have a pesky boost leak at the fuel rail I need to fix.
Get yourself a Wally 255HP and THIS FILTER AND LINE and you will be fine. The filter linked above is what i now have, just make sure to buy a stainless steel 10micron filter element when you order it (if you do order it) as it comes with another paper element that will not only have a short life, but is not able to bea cleaned...the SS can be cleaned and re-used.
Glen (or anyone in the know for that matter),
From where did you get the s/s 10 micron filter? I was considering the 818 but I ended up deciding on the 828 (1" longer filter element then the 818 has, 5" on the 828 vs. 4" on the 818) because of the longer filter element. I was looking around on extremepsi's website and haven't found a replacement s/s filter element...
Well fixing up some issues on the car. I have only one fan on the radiator and have to leave it running or I overheat. So im going to buy an ebay slim fan and wire both to run at all times, along with new radiator hoses and 160* TS.
I have a boost leak that starts at 15psi and leaks pretty bad. Car still holds 24psi. Im going to fix that an shim the 16g wastegate so its pretty much shut and try to get boost to spike 35+ and hold at least 28psi to redline. Also going to advance CAS back to around 5* BTDC and see where timing goes, should be around 24-25*. Since I was at 0-2* BTDC the lower rpm suffers from timing dropping to around 9*, I would like that to be a little higher. Right now I see 22* by 5500rpm than drops to about 19 after that.
After that Im going to rent a dyno and tune here out and see what she will lay down at that timing and boost. Should be about two weeks. Hopefully everything is smooth and I will test 11.1 afr against 11.5 afr and see the hp gains. If they are not much I will just tune it back. Im hoping to break 400whp on stock longblock and intake mani. Than shooting for 11's up in this altitude on a 16g and safc. Its not heard of and everyone thinks its not possible. Wish me luck.
You have more stuff on your car than I do, except that I have cams which I don't see in your profile. You should be able to break 400awhp. My dyno numbers are at about 22psi on top end, about 28 on the low end. I'm running considerably more timing on the low end that you are. I can get the boost higher than I would ever want at like 3 grand, yet it always tapers off to 22 or 23 on top.
I shimmed out my wastegate actuator slightly with 2 washers and put a big spring on it so it boosts 20 psi without a boost controller (straight to the actuator from the lower intercooler pipe), which made it taper off instead of spike but it didn't help one bit on top end. I wish I could get it to near 28psi at peak hp, I could probably get around 450awhp. I lost about 2 psi with the cams, but gained a couple lbs/min of airflow.
I'm running a stock 2g o2 housing, maybe that hurts my top end a little. Also I'm thinking that porting my compressor outlet to match my J-pipe may help a little -- who here has tried it with or without good results?
8.5:1 AFR and lots of timing. It's a street tune. My car has never been tuned on a dyno, just ran on dyno days with a bunch of other cars for fun and to see what it would do.
8.5:1 AFR and lots of timing. It's a street tune. My car has never been tuned on a dyno, just ran on dyno days with a bunch of other cars for fun and to see what it would do.
That looks like a compression ratio?
My brother has the same issue with not holding boost on his 16g. Right now I have a big boost leak and in 3rd it slams 30+psi, im guessing 32psi but gauge is maxed. Then it drops to 24 and bounces between 24-26 like it wants to hold more. The #4 injector seal leaks like crazy at 15psi.
The only difference between my bros car and mine is I have the exhaust manifold, turbo, and o2 housing extensivly ported.
Don't tell me you tune and run e85 and don't know that AFR stands for air to fuel ratio meaning air:fuel is parts air by weight to parts fuel by weight. A stoich mixture (lambda 1.0) for e85 is 9.765, where gas is 14.7. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've had a long day or something. You probably run an AFR in the 7.x:1 range (11's gas afr) like many of the E85 people here, but my car hates richer than 8:1, and I already go through enough fuel with how I drive.
My compression ratio is around 8:1 (probably less); yeah I wish it was 10:1 or at least 9:1, but oh well.
Don't tell me you tune and run e85 and don't know that AFR stands for air to fuel ratio meaning air:fuel is parts air by weight to parts fuel by weight. A stoich mixture (lambda 1.0) for e85 is 9.765, where gas is 14.7. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've had a long day or something. You probably run an AFR in the 7.x:1 range (11's gas afr) like many of the E85 people here, but my car hates richer than 8:1, and I already go through enough fuel with how I drive.
My compression ratio is around 8:1 (probably less); yeah I wish it was 10:1 or at least 9:1, but oh well.
OK, I was not giving you benefit of the doubt. Most people post there gas equivelent afr's not the actual like you did. my bad.
^yeah same here, i run gas AFRs when i tune, i don't have a switchable display.
I changed it in tunerpro as well as on my wideband, and use a blue $15 digital voltmeter for my AFR display. The display shows my AFR exactly right and looks pretty sweet.
JayRolla, your car could use a pair of 272's and possibly a cold air intake if you dont have one.
My car held boost better when I did a cold air intake, denser air into the compressor means more air being able to be squeeze into the system, and were the gains from something like that could really be significant is at the high rpm, high pressure ratios which your car is seeing...
Shimming the actuator definitly helps, I tried it myself back on the external gate, but the boost spikes started to grow hard to tune on 93 octane... I ended up going with a ebay 38mm external gate with the punishment recir o2 housing, and I put the little and big spring together for more spring pressure and minimum boost now with no mbc is 20psi, but I got that sucker boosting 25psi and its holding longer than ever thru the rpm range and at 7k redline I still see 22-23psi ish on the gauge which is a noticeable improvement from previously.
Also, having good o2housings probably help more than we think.
I really want to get cams and wish I had upgraded my springs and retainers when I did my head build. I dont really like running 272's on stock valvetrain. I know people do it, but I have a buddy that had a failure due to running those cams on stock valvetrain.
Im going to shim it a lot untill that thing is holding at least 28psi by redline if possible and I dont care about how high the boost spikes. Instead of buying cams im in the search for a good used hx40. My buddy found a rebuild hx40 7 blade on craigslist and picked it up for $50. Im so jealous.
I really want to get cams and wish I had upgraded my springs and retainers when I did my head build. I dont really like running 272's on stock valvetrain. I know people do it, but I have a buddy that had a failure due to running those cams on stock valvetrain.
Im going to shim it a lot untill that thing is holding at least 28psi by redline if possible and I dont care about how high the boost spikes. Instead of buying cams im in the search for a good used hx40. My buddy found a rebuild hx40 7 blade on craigslist and picked it up for $50. Im so jealous.
A few things,
I run BC272s on stock valve train and have my rev limiter set at 8k.
Ive bounced off the rev limiter on a few occasions with no issues.
I also recall taking the stock head to 8500 rpms a few times on the stock cams.
As long as the head is in good condition and not old and worn out I dont think its an issue at all.
Also keep in mind, one reason you are able to see such high boost pressures till redline is because the fact that you still have stock cams. Put it this way, (altitude aside) Id say Im probably flowing MORE or at least equivalent airflow with my e316g at 25psi falling to 23redline with the 272s than your 30psi falling to 26 on stock cams....
When you throw some bigger cams in there your boost should drop at least 2psi from now due to the VE increasing, which would be a good thing! Right now all that heat and backpressure from such high boost doesnt really help you make good HP, were as if you can increase your turbos flow to its peak efficiency on the compressor map- yet doing it at a lower boost level I garuantee you that youd make more power.
Cams, and something that you can use to properly control your timing maps are probably the best things you could do for your car. Your running high boost meaning sure your torque numbers are probably really healthy especially due to the powerband of stock cams, even for your altitute, but your top end HP numbers are probably less than your expecting...
Also, I wouldnt run timing above 23-24degs max even with e85. I can agree your low end timing is a little soft and maybe you could use 1 or 2 more degs advance back in on the cas, but I wouldnt do anymore than that, at least not until you increase air flow more. Hint cams.- In which I think you should do first before get a bigger turbo, it may change your mind and keep you on the e316g a little longer!!!
Id also like to add I got great gains from switching out my ported evo3 exhaust mani for a FP race mani, and the Punishment o2 housing with stiff spring'ed external gate was the icing on the cake !
____________________________
((Jay))
E316G - 6bolt/4bolt
2800lbs w/ driver
Last edited by Black_Bullet; 10-14-2008 at 09:53 AM.
Visited the same dyno as Jrohner and i put down 410hp, 458TQ.
I don't really believe that dyno, but whatever.
My HP was under 12% higher than it was on DB Performance's Dyno Dynamics dyno (I put down 370.8HP on that one). Most have claimed an even greater difference between the dd & dynojet. My torque was a lot more than 12% higher on the dynojet, but I had better boost control so that's most of the reason (around 28 falling to 22 instead of spiking 28 and going 25 and then falling to 22.5), plus I did a little work to my timing map.
^i would rather believe 380ish for my car and go off of airflow.
E85, timing in the high teens at max, this car knocks like mad.
AFRs = in the 11s, i don't really care since it could be snowing anyday and i will be done driving the car.
Boost spike to 34 settles to 22psi.
. 
