Well took the car up too the mountains for a cruise. Leaned her out to around 11.1-11.3 and she seems to like it a lot better. I think im between 4-6 counts max of knock. Starting to beable to tell the difference between real knock and PK I think.
Sucks though because on the way back my clutch fork broke!! Have to have it towed over 60 miles and then pull the tranny. How fun!!
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ouch man that sucks... I'm about to order some injectors and buy greddy e-manage from my brother, and I'll be running E-85 too.
Sweet man, yea i have to have it towed from woodland park. Car is running awesome. Thing breaks lose in second somtimes now when boost hits, expecially if turning just a little. You will love the stuff. My 1200cc's are sitting at 58% max IDC so I have lots of room to work with now.
Have Kevin and Jack tune it for yea, they did wonders with my brothers car. Im going to have them look over my tune and see what they think about the little knock I am getting. I want to turn the boost up too around 28-30psi!
That sucks your fork went out, it's always the little stuff that stops teh big fun
I'm glad you're getting the car dialed in! I'm guessing i need another pump now before i can proceed any further. I also need a different wastegate cap so ican run more boost. it's always something.
You hsould pay a visit to omaha and feel your car at only 1300ft above sea level That 5k+ crap would drive me insane, but i do breathe a lot better myself up there. It's the only place i've been where allergies didn't just kill me.
^ Nah he should come down to Fl were its sea level and he wont need e85 to break loose in 2nd lol
Jayrolla, sorry about your clutch fork.
If your making a lot more power this would be the time the weak stuff breaks on you randomly.
I was going to ask, why do you think you have so much phantom knock, what harsh vibrations do you have? ANything touching that shouldnt be, or balance shaft removal?
Well i removed my balance shafts and it didnt change much, I had a ton of PK when my 3in megan DP used to sit smack against my T case and I had to dent in the flex section some for clearance.
I also disabled the PK under like 3k with my chip, after those things my PK is hardly present unless I downshift hard or jump on the 2step too fast.
I don't know the ins and outs but I mainly look for specks on the porcelain part of the plug. I am going to be doing quite a bit more research and application with all of this very soon.
Back on th topic of knocking on E85. AS i stated earlier in my other post, i too was getting knock even in the 11's on AFR when i was forcing fuel through the clogged ass stock filter (even though it was new when the e85 swap was done) Now that i have a decent filter and line from it to the rail, I'm still not getting enough fuel from the pump, but i just did a 3rd gear full pull at 25psi and 23* timing and the AFR's were from 12.8 - 13:1 the whole way through the pull and i didn't see one degree of timing get pulled. My point being it may not be so much AFR as it is a requirement of a "steady" supply of fuel the entire time.
I got the fuelab 818 95-99 eclipse kit from extreme psi and it's not solved all my issues but it's made fuel delivery a lot better!!.
I'm still waiting on a new 255HP and to get a new alternator in hopes that i will finally have enough fuel.
On a side note. Dropping from 43 psi BFP to 36psi helped get me from over 100% iDC down to 96% a the end of the power-band, so you might give that a try as well.
^ Nah he should come down to Fl were its sea level and he wont need e85 to break loose in 2nd lol
Jayrolla, sorry about your clutch fork.
If your making a lot more power this would be the time the weak stuff breaks on you randomly.
I was going to ask, why do you think you have so much phantom knock, what harsh vibrations do you have? ANything touching that shouldnt be, or balance shaft removal?
Well i removed my balance shafts and it didnt change much, I had a ton of PK when my 3in megan DP used to sit smack against my T case and I had to dent in the flex section some for clearance.
I also disabled the PK under like 3k with my chip, after those things my PK is hardly present unless I downshift hard or jump on the 2step too fast.
Well on my last car I didnt have Pk. But I dont remember if it was before the swap to the new body or when I did my new head that caused the PK. My buddy built the head and didnt use the revised lifters like I thought he was so Im pretty sure that is the issue.
I will replace the line and filter ASAP, but money is tapped. Have a newborn coming in a couple weeks!!!
Sweet man, yea i have to have it towed from woodland park. Car is running awesome. Thing breaks lose in second somtimes now when boost hits, expecially if turning just a little. You will love the stuff. My 1200cc's are sitting at 58% max IDC so I have lots of room to work with now.
Have Kevin and Jack tune it for yea, they did wonders with my brothers car. Im going to have them look over my tune and see what they think about the little knock I am getting. I want to turn the boost up too around 28-30psi!
Awesome man I can't wait... I'm going to order some 1600's today from Mapperformance for only $339 shipped. Soon i'll have the e-man and i'll definitely take it to jack to tune it for me. We should go cruising after we get everything running right.
haha for sure. I have another friend from Pueblo with a 1g, and a buddy with a Silver Evo - you might have seen it at my house - i'll bring them along.
Yea ive seen that silver one. My buddy have a blue evo. About to through in some 950's and have the ecu flashed so he can also run e85. A guy in denver made 360whp at 26psi on a stock evo with e85.
Jesus that's good, this Evo has a boost controller and a fuel pump, he has a hard time keeping these things on the road or he would have more done. He has a 3" waiting to get put on, but he doesn't know where he can take it to in the Springs where they will put it on because it wipes out the cat.
Jesus that's good, this Evo has a boost controller and a fuel pump, he has a hard time keeping these things on the road or he would have more done. He has a 3" waiting to get put on, but he doesn't know where he can take it to in the Springs where they will put it on because it wipes out the cat.
Take it too Jacks if he has the exhaust. My buddy has the cheap ebay kit and its very nice. Jack used too do exhausts but now is too busy with the trannys. But kevin will install it for him if you buddy cant do it himself.
Tell him to get some big injectors and take it too revolutions. He can through e85 in and they can flash the ecu and tune it for him. Can make good power with just the setup he has.
I dont know if this post will at all be relevant or helpful for you
but today I was experiement on desensitizing the knock sensor a bit on my car to see the results.
Well anyways the cars dialed in with a sharp tune and id never see more than like 4-8 counts thru the gears on average. Never more than 9 max in any occasion. A lot of people would consider this very conservative and that I could push more.... I dont , I feel its just right for mines as a DD and I dont plan on tuning more aggressive.
But anyways, in experimentation, before I decied to log my car, I loosened up the knock sensor and left it only hand tight and the knock counts remained the same. Then next thing I know its showing up like 43 counts of knock when I was NLTS shifting, therefore it had wiggled loose on me and i was hitten some bad PK with it like that.
Ive never seen my logger ever go to 43 counts of knock under any circumstance, so I figure possibly it being too loose that caused that. Then I tightened it back up ( just to a lower torque spec than originally.)
and all the knock was back to the normal counts Ive always seen.
Then i took it out again, ( burning my arm in the process on a hot IM) and I teflon taped the threads on the KS and put it back in to its original torque specs ( probably a little less ) and all my knock counts were gone and the car was actually a tad bit faster...
I cant say I truely trust these results from the teflon, but I doubt the teflon could keep it from registering real knock that would be threating... I probably will tighten it back up a little bit tighter while leaving the teflon and see what that does, but I must note that I have no more phantom knock in the few places I was getting it before.
Just as a precautious till I experiement with this further, I backed out my timing a few degs everywere thats not under full boost/ WOT just to make sure I dont have knock when cruising or partial throttle while the knock sensor is desensitized.
I normally wouldnt recommend anyone to do this, and I dont feel its something I should be telling people to do on my own behalf, but FWIW perhaps you can dampen your knock sensor a little bit as well and it may help your issue.
I dont know if this post will at all be relevant or helpful for you
but today I was experiement on desensitizing the knock sensor a bit on my car to see the results.
Well anyways the cars dialed in with a sharp tune and id never see more than like 4-8 counts thru the gears on average. Never more than 9 max in any occasion. A lot of people would consider this very conservative and that I could push more.... I dont , I feel its just right for mines as a DD and I dont plan on tuning more aggressive.
But anyways, in experimentation, before I decied to log my car, I loosened up the knock sensor and left it only hand tight and the knock counts remained the same. Then next thing I know its showing up like 43 counts of knock when I was NLTS shifting, therefore it had wiggled loose on me and i was hitten some bad PK with it like that.
Ive never seen my logger ever go to 43 counts of knock under any circumstance, so I figure possibly it being too loose that caused that. Then I tightened it back up ( just to a lower torque spec than originally.)
and all the knock was back to the normal counts Ive always seen.
Then i took it out again, ( burning my arm in the process on a hot IM) and I teflon taped the threads on the KS and put it back in to its original torque specs ( probably a little less ) and all my knock counts were gone and the car was actually a tad bit faster...
I cant say I truely trust these results from the teflon, but I doubt the teflon could keep it from registering real knock that would be threating... I probably will tighten it back up a little bit tighter while leaving the teflon and see what that does, but I must note that I have no more phantom knock in the few places I was getting it before.
Just as a precautious till I experiement with this further, I backed out my timing a few degs everywere thats not under full boost/ WOT just to make sure I dont have knock when cruising or partial throttle while the knock sensor is desensitized.
I normally wouldnt recommend anyone to do this, and I dont feel its something I should be telling people to do on my own behalf, but FWIW perhaps you can dampen your knock sensor a little bit as well and it may help your issue.
Thanks for the post. If I was you I would add a little bit more timing than normal at boost where you think it would knock more. If you dont get knock then I would be worried. I know a few people used to block the hole on the sensor with jb weld and ended up with real bad results.
But you dont think just a very little teflon tape would stop the sensor from picking up any sound. Right now mine is hand tight, so I may just tighten it up and see what happens. After that I may go to another route like you said.
I think I recall Dsmonster used jb weld on his. Even then, real knock that was significant should be detectable by the sensor and the ppl you mentioned who had real bad results must've had horrible tunes
Most people claim that the stock KS is over sensitive, and too commonly picks up engine harmonics that may not be knock, not that you should fool with the KS too much but I do agree.
Matter fact there are a lot of cars that have overly anxious knock sensors that go off for several reason thus pulling timing/ power etc. suggesting maybe that the factory dials in their KS's to pick up sounds conservatively;
( The engine will get louder anyways the more power you make)
Obviously, that doesnt make for the best power production, for those having large phantom knock issues from just noisy engines in general. ( I remember TurboGlenn did a thread about this awhile back )
My tune is a good tune but not too aggressive and I never get over 10 counts under wot ever or my knock buzzer would go off. So whether it was real or fake I doubt it be significant.
But I have always had a bit of phantom knock on this car too.
I fixed most of it with solid motor mounts and fixing my 3in Megan DP from sitting smack against the Tcase due to the angle of the evo3 o2housing, but It will still come in situations such as NLTS, 2stepping,over revving
( pretty much anything that bounces off the rev limiter. lol) or even at times just from downshifting .
Right now all my random knock counts have gone away but that could be good or bad depending how much the sensor has been desensistized, and there isnt much a way to measure that.
Could this Teflon tape be enough to block out real knock?
I wouldnt think so since real knock that was negligable should be a very audiable sound at least to the sensor, but anyway any other opinions on this?
Perhaps Ill tighten it down to stock specs but still leave the teflon tape and see the results.
Realistically some teflon tape shouldnt change much yet the knock counts have calmed down.
Idk, maybe Im just doing this for the sake of experiment but could still be useful none the less.
I do understand that is over sensitive. There where people that did the jb weld fix and it causes the KS to pick up nothing!! A guy at Jackstransmissions that I know real well did that to his KS and he blew his motor. Good tune but he just was running too much timing with his setup and knock killed his motor. He told me not to try that mod.
I do understand that is over sensitive. There where people that did the jb weld fix and it causes the KS to pick up nothing!! A guy at Jackstransmissions that I know real well did that to his KS and he blew his motor. Good tune but he just was running too much timing with his setup and knock killed his motor. He told me not to try that mod.
Yea definitly dont try that, for now ima just leave the teflon tape with it tighted down.
I only wrapped it around the threads in one or two layers.
But im not trying to push my tune any further than it has been anyways, I was just trying to
clear up some of the random PK or insignificant knock counts...
Why would you even consider JB welding in a knock sensor? Replace the sensor, or tune the car better.
Did you even read the thread, he was just saying what one of his friends did, he nor I am planning on doing that. And we've been assuming that he's having phantom knock issues and not tuning issues since he's running e85.
Did you even read the thread, he was just saying what one of his friends did, he nor I am planning on doing that. And we've been assuming that he's having phantom knock issues and not tuning issues since he's running e85.
I never said that to you, i was stating for anyone.. Why anyone would think that is a good idea. What's phantom knock? O that's the crap i used to get before i got dsmlink.
You need to stop playing with the knock sensor and just install it properly. That means with proper torque and no JB Weld or Teflon that desensitize it.
Phantom knock is just that. It's not real and it should be ignored because it happens at part throttle conditions only. Ignore it. Simple as that. Do you really care about the loss in timing and power while in vacuum conditions?
Knock that occurs in boost conditions should not be ignored. Installing a knock sensor improperly will inhibit the sensor from picking this up. Foolish in my mind.
I would personally just forget about it completely. 43 knock counts? So what, it at part throttle anyways. Concentrate on WOT knock.
You need to stop playing with the knock sensor and just install it properly. That means with proper torque and no JB Weld or Teflon that desensitize it.
Phantom knock is just that. It's not real and it should be ignored because it happens at part throttle conditions only. Ignore it. Simple as that. Do you really care about the loss in timing and power while in vacuum conditions?
Knock that occurs in boost conditions should not be ignored. Installing a knock sensor improperly will inhibit the sensor from picking this up. Foolish in my mind.
I would personally just forget about it completely. 43 knock counts? So what, it at part throttle anyways. Concentrate on WOT knock.
Well I do care because the PK will bring itself through the whole RPM band in wot all the way to redline. I get 49 counts and it will hold 20 counts all the way through unless I release the throttle real fast and back on it.
Also when getting the PK it causes the turbo to spool slower due to the low timing. I also dont have that cruisng power like when Im hitting 10psi. The power is horrible when I'm not wot and I have to use more throttle than I would like.
I never said that to you, i was stating for anyone.. Why anyone would think that is a good idea. What's phantom knock? O that's the crap i used to get before i got dsmlink.
I know thats the one of the best features on dsmlink. Wish I had $800 to waste on dsmlink but I dont. Have another kid on the way.
Well I do care because the PK will bring itself through the whole RPM band in wot all the way to redline. I get 49 counts and it will hold 20 counts all the way through unless I release the throttle real fast and back on it.
Also when getting the PK it causes the turbo to spool slower due to the low timing. I also dont have that cruisng power like when Im hitting 10psi. The power is horrible when I'm not wot and I have to use more throttle than I would like.
Yea PK can make your tune get real sloppy real fast, and i imagen its pulling your timing back real bad everytime you roll up on that much knock, and being that your knock decay rates are still stock it definitly is affecting your power output in boost.
Thats why I was trying to help you source out what you think could've been causing the PK. Im having trouble believeing that you'd have real knock right now on E85 as well...
I dont think desensitizing the knock sensor is a bad idea as long as you arent trying to desensitize it too much. I still find it impropable that a little teflon tape ( 1 layer ) would prevent it from picking up real knock.. But obviously, messing with the KS, you have to take responsibility of knowing what tune is ideal for your motor and etc.
Oh and just to add, retarded timing theoretically should cause your turbo to spool faster due to higher egts. BUT you will be slower, less torque so you basically just have less power therefore it just feels like its spooling slower but its just climbing rpms slower.
( If that makes any sense)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRolla
I know thats the one of the best features on dsmlink. Wish I had $800 to waste on dsmlink but I dont. Have another kid on the way.
I think you could get Dsmlink for 550 for everything, ( not that thats much better.)
Or you could look into burning your own eprom chips like I do.
Since you dont have a eprom ecu, you could buy pre socketed eprm with a ziff socket from Jeff at keydiver and then buy a eprom chip burner, a pack of rewriteable chips, and a ostrich ( and of course downloading and learning the programs i.e. evil scribe/ tunerpro)
and with all that you'd probably only be out of 350-400 bucks doing it that way.
Mainly because of the eprom ecu itself.... Setting up the chip burning stuff will only run you like 120-150.
I feel you on the budget issue, I was just lucky my car already had came with a eprom when i bought it, as I dont have much money to drop on big purchases for the car either..
