Well got my wbo2 back in and installed on this car. Also put some new t-bolt clamps on, fixed some boost leaks, set timing to 5* and she is ready to go. Tomorrow injectors come in and I will be on my way to the e85 station. I will post up results tomorrow.
I would grab a few fuel containers and fill them with E85. This way you can bring them home so that you can make sure you siphon ALL of that unleaded fuel out the tank.
It would be pointless to really tune if you are mixing unleaded with E85, UNLESS you are going to mix the two fuels all the time. This way you will really only need to adjust the tune on one tank instead of making additional changes on the next E85 fill up. By doing this, you are eliminating other variables that will change the way the motor reacts to the new fuel.
I would grab a few fuel containers and fill them with E85. This way you can bring them home so that you can make sure you siphon ALL of that unleaded fuel out the tank.
It would be pointless to really tune if you are mixing unleaded with E85, UNLESS you are going to mix the two fuels all the time. This way you will really only need to adjust the tune on one tank instead of making additional changes on the next E85 fill up. By doing this, you are eliminating other variables that will change the way the motor reacts to the new fuel.
Thanks Jeff, when my buddy tuned my bro's car on e85 he just ran it real low almost till we where about to die and filled it up. On the next fill up it was hardly any adjustment to get the afr back inline.
^^^ That's what I did. Drove about 60 miles past the low fuel light, and hit the e85 station.
Good luck with the final install! I'm lovin' the stuff...burned through a 1/4 tank in an hour just joyriding around, with a huge smile on my face
Yea my bro tells me he can get 200 miles to a tank, but if he wanted too, he could get 50 miles to a whole tank. Gas mileage is not too bad if you stay out of boost, but that is so hard.
Well shipping on injectors took over a week longer than it should have so I barely had enough time after work to get them in and start tuning.
Very disappointed with my crappy car. I have her tuned to an 11.1-10.8 afr, 26psi holding 24psi to redline and 17* max advance. She is getting anywhere from 10-20 counts of knock depending on the run.
Not sure if its PK or what, but It usually doesnt affect me at higher rpms under WOT. Its almost if I run it around 10.0 it will go away but sometimes comes back. Knock sensor is new too, not sure what the issue is.
You can run a megasquirt setup with an alcohol sensor that will compensate for between the two maps, at any percentages
Another reason MSnS is becoming a more recomended ECU by myself around here. After tuning Ajax's car on the newer version of MSnS i have to say, while other ECU makers are sitting idle letting people be happy with what they produce the guys at megasquirt are definitely taking strides that are putting them ahead of the game in aftermarket ECU performance.
P.S. I am getting around 200 miles per tank on the corn juice myself (not too different than what i was getting on a rich pump gas tune)
I just remembered I'm still running 6es plugs but I dont think that would cause me to have this much knock. I have a new sensor, I may try to replace it again. Dont think I should be knocking.
I have gotten 50 miles on my first 1/4 tanks ive used and that was all tuning.
I just remembered I'm still running 6es plugs but I dont think that would cause me to have this much knock. I have a new sensor, I may try to replace it again. Dont think I should be knocking.
I have gotten 50 miles on my first 1/4 tanks ive used and that was all tuning.
So you have a wideband and you've verified AFR to be at 11.
Do you think its phantom or real knock, what rpm is it occuring?
A few things i can throw out that may help your knock issue -
BR7ES plugs ( instead of your current 6ES) make sure there nonprojected.
run a boost leak test
sea foam engine'
do you have heatshields over your exhaust components
cold air intake ( my intake temps dropped a consistent 40degs i also made a splash shield)
make sure your base timing is correct
make sure your knock sensor isnt over torqued. Even better have it loosely on the block.
run a compression test/ leak down ( if your smoking it could affect combustion?)
Can you post a log?
Other than that, your timing may still be too aggressive in the lower rpms when boost is at its highest thru peak torque and if you knock down low its likely to carry thru the whole pull. Though i know you shouldnt be having any knock w/ the e85 even with high boost adv timing, you have to remember every cars different.
Still sounds like an improvement though over your pumpgas tune since you can get some real boost now. Perhaps start with the boost a tad lower. FWIW, if you get it down to 5-10 counts of knock I wouldnt worry about it.
How can I tell the difference between a projected tip and non projected tip?
BPR7ES = Projected tip
BR7ES = Non-Projected tip
P = Projected Tip
R = Resistor
7 = Temperature
EDIT: Lean out the fuel curve a bit. That is way too rich for E85 and it could be contributing to your knock conditions. There may be so much Ethanol in the cylinders that it is actually compressing in the cylinders and creating the knock.
EDIT: Lean out the fuel curve a bit. That is way too rich for E85 and it could be contributing to your knock conditions. There may be so much Ethanol in the cylinders that it is actually compressing in the cylinders and creating the knock.
Which will cause preignition right?? Im going to lean it out to an 11.5afr and see what happens. Thanks for the info on the plugs, ive been buying projected tip's, what makes the non projected tips better?
Ok so I leaned it out on the way home from work to around a 11.5-11.7 and knock seemed to be around 12 counts at highest. Its confusing though because the knock is not constant. It seems to hit around boost everytime.
First run can show 15 counts, second zero and then the next 4-10 counts. Very inconsistant. Its pretty much acting exactly how my 15psi pump gas tune would and the reason I was going to e85, because I thought the 2g pistons compression was the problem. Starting to think its PK. I have a bad lifter tick that gives me PK at cruising, but usually I can start to get a clean run around 2800rpm by letting go of the throttle and getting back on it real quick. Also I heard that lifter tick does not happen in higher rpms but it is pretty bad tick.
Quote:
BR7ES plugs ( instead of your current 6ES) make sure there nonprojected.
run a boost leak test
sea foam engine'
do you have heatshields over your exhaust components
cold air intake ( my intake temps dropped a consistent 40degs i also made a splash shield)
make sure your base timing is correct
make sure your knock sensor isnt over torqued. Even better have it loosely on the block.
run a compression test/ leak down ( if your smoking it could affect combustion?)
Too Black Bullit I know the motor is good, freshly built. Boost holds real well on leak test. I have an exhaust mani shield and thats it. Base timing is at 0* at the moment because of the large injectors. The knock sensor is new and on my last head it didnt have PK. I may pull it and reinstall it, but why would I want to loosly install it, wouldnt that cause PK if it wasnt tight?? Compression was over 180 I believe on the last test a month or so back. And the timing shouldnt be too aggressive down low. The log looks good. Im at 0* base and seeing 17* max(1g stock map is 22* at 5* BTDC) so I'm still in the high timing map even with the large injectors because of the airflow Im pushing.
Loosing up the knock sensor will make it less prone to give you phantom knock.
Its already been proven that the mitsu knock sensor is a bit too sensitive to begin with.
If your lifters are ticken bad, then just get the 3rd revision lifters. I have those and they never tick even when the engine is down a qrt. Your knock doesnt sound that bad though, like i said under 10 counts I wouldnt worry about it. You should post a log because how and were the knock occurs could tell a lot and someone may be able to help you clear it up. And I dont think you'll ever have your car dialed in 100% , or extracting the most performance from it unless you had dsmlink or at least a edited eprom chip.
Safc still shows us its limit even with e85 in the tank...
Yea I'm going to replace the lifters soon. I'm going to try to loosen the knock sensor and see what happens.
Quick question when tuning the low throttle on the WBO2. What percent of throttle should I be at when tuning it and looking at the wbo2 since at different throttle it will change.
Yea I'm going to replace the lifters soon. I'm going to try to loosen the knock sensor and see what happens.
Quick question when tuning the low throttle on the WBO2. What percent of throttle should I be at when tuning it and looking at the wbo2 since at different throttle it will change.
I have never knocked on e-85. The most i can ever remember was maybe .5 counts.. So i'm confused why you are having such a rough time with it.
I have never knocked on e-85. The most i can ever remember was maybe .5 counts.. So i'm confused why you are having such a rough time with it.
Ahh yea me too, thats why I think its PK. My brother can run 28psi and more timing than me and only thing he has is the stock 1g pistons and I have the 2g pistons.
Ahh yea me too, thats why I think its PK. My brother can run 28psi and more timing than me and only thing he has is the stock 1g pistons and I have the 2g pistons.
Though, the engine does get noiser the more power you make and PK is highly possible, but even if you guys are right, dont take the chance of it being real knock out of the picture, try those things I mentioned up above and see if it clears any knock up.... Besides the loosening up the knock sensor idea, the other things I suggested shouldnt really help that much if It were really just fake knock. Perhaps the car will respond better if you went even a tad bit leaner since it did show some improvement going leaner than your last AFR so far.
There is a such thing as rich knock, a sloppy tune would cause that.
Ahh yea me too, thats why I think its PK. My brother can run 28psi and more timing than me and only thing he has is the stock 1g pistons and I have the 2g pistons.
e85 should take higher compression well, since it's so knock-resistant. I know if i built another engine it would have at least 9:1. I don't think that would be your problem, i have 8.5:1's right now and have never knocked either, even at crazy lean afr's. Maybe you still have some pump gas still in there? I'm not sure, but it sounds fishy.
e85 should take higher compression well, since it's so knock-resistant. I know if i built another engine it would have at least 9:1. I don't think that would be your problem, i have 8.5:1's right now and have never knocked either, even at crazy lean afr's. Maybe you still have some pump gas still in there? I'm not sure, but it sounds fishy.
I have filled it twice already since the first tank so it should be full of e85 now. I leaned it out to between 11.1-11.3 and it seems to stay under 8 counts of knock. But sometimes it will get a lot more and thats why I think its PK sometimes.
I loosened the knock sensor and it didnt do anything. I still get 49 counts while cruising pretty much all the time. I think I'm going to replace the lifters and maybe a new knock sensor. Also swap the plugs tomorrow with a stage colder/non projected.
Also, you do have base timing set correctly at 5 degrees BTDC, right??
I dont worry about the part throttle knock, but it loves to stay with the high rpms sometimes. I have base timing at 0*!!! because I thought timing may be too high with the safc correction. I dont know if putting it back will make knock worse if its real knock.
Don't forget to cvhange your filter soon too! ( just in case it's a fuel issue starting to arrise) I took min eoff after 5 tanks and i could barely blow through it at all. I was amazed how clogged it got. I took it apart and took pics of the paper element inside, but i don't have them hosted right now.
I now have the fuel lab 818 filter with 10 micron SS element inside and my car is running a lot richer than it used to on the same pulsewidth. Also i was getting a good bit of knock daily before changing the filter, that's why i bring it up. I haven't seen any knock since gettign the flow up
Don't forget to cvhange your filter soon too! ( just in case it's a fuel issue starting to arrise) I took min eoff after 5 tanks and i could barely blow through it at all. I was amazed how clogged it got. I took it apart and took pics of the paper element inside, but i don't have them hosted right now.
I now have the fuel lab 818 filter with 10 micron SS element inside and my car is running a lot richer than it used to on the same pulsewidth. Also i was getting a good bit of knock daily before changing the filter, that's why i bring it up. I haven't seen any knock since gettign the flow up
Thanks glen, that will be my next upgrade. I just wanted the boost juice now. I do love the boost even if it gets some knock. Still fun, I just dont want to kill this new motor. Im going to have my mechanic look at the tune, he knows his stuff with e85.
Another reason MSnS is becoming a more recomended ECU by myself around here. After tuning Ajax's car on the newer version of MSnS i have to say, while other ECU makers are sitting idle letting people be happy with what they produce the guys at megasquirt are definitely taking strides that are putting them ahead of the game in aftermarket ECU performance.
P.S. I am getting around 200 miles per tank on the corn juice myself (not too different than what i was getting on a rich pump gas tune)
Thanks glen, that will be my next upgrade. I just wanted the boost juice now. I do love the boost even if it gets some knock. Still fun, I just dont want to kill this new motor. Im going to have my mechanic look at the tune, he knows his stuff with e85.
Are you ever checking your plugs? Those will give you a very good idea of real knock or not.
I just dont want to kill this new motor. Im going to have my mechanic look at the tune, he knows his stuff with e85.
