Egt ??

[whiteythepimp]

Just a quick question.. I have a 90 gst that i'm running a 'open' downpipe (just slapping a flange and a turn down on the end of the downpipe).. Do I necessarely run an EGT if i'm running the AEM UEGO 12 inches down on the down pipe and I have no remaining exhaust.. I've had numerous people and shops tell me no.. But since i'm gunna be running a pre turbo meth injection i'm alittle curious.. Any insight?

 

[1992awdlaser]

An EGT gauge/sensor is not needed and to me is a waste of money.

 

[kmoore]

What are you asking?

Yes you still have and EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp.) even though you are running open downpipe.

Like I said I don't know what your asking.

And an EGT gauge is not a waste of money and is very useful.

 

[ndsti]

Using a wideband at that lenght is useless, read the directions it needs to be 36" away from the turbo outlet to be so you don't BURN UP YOUR SENSOR!

I completly agree with kmoore an EGT is not a waste of money if you have any kind of mods. It could possible save an engine from meltdown.

 

[1992awdlaser]

To ME an EGT gauge/sensor is an outdated waste of money. It won't give you any more tuning capability over just a wideband. And it won't make it easier to tune. If it does you need to find somebody to teach you how to tune the car.

ndsti you are wrong about the 36". That is to keep the sensor from FAILING prematurely. It has nothing to due with it reading correct or not.

 

[kmoore]

Nobody should tune off of EGT's anyway. An EGT gauge is simply a tool to make sure you aren't frying something.....

 

[1992awdlaser]

Your not going to if the car is tuned correctly which means you don't need an egt gauge.

 

[ndsti]

I fixed my post to be more politically correct!

So your telling me your willing to spend the $$$ to buy the bosch sensor everytime it fails.

 

[Rob10_99]

For one, your not going to screw up your engine under cruising conditions(unless your an R-tard)
Two, your tuned AFR's for WOT should prevent any type of overheating issues, as long as you check your plugs after initial tune and every once in a while.

 

[1992awdlaser]

So your telling me your willing to spend the $$$ to buy the bosch sensor everytime it fails.

When did I say that? You said that in order for it to READ correctly that it needs to be at least 36" from the turbo. I was correcting your wrong statement. And it won't fail that often, just more often than if it were 36" or more from the turbo.

But yes, once I put my big turbo on the wideband will be close to the turbo because I will have a bumper exit exhaust or an exhaust that just points straight at the ground off the turbo. In order to go as fast as possible you have to make some sacrifices. Buying a sensor sooner than normal will be one of mine.

 

[ndsti]

That is to keep the sensor from FAILING prematurely.

If that statement doesn't say you will need to buy another sensor at some point in time. Then yes you are right when you say, "When did I say that?"

I thank you for correcting me in which I corrected myself in the earlier thread.

 

[1992awdlaser]

If that statement doesn't say you will need to buy another sensor at some point in time. Then yes you are right when you say, "When did I say that?"

I thank you for correcting me in which I corrected myself in the earlier thread.

You asked "So your telling me your willing to spend the $$$ to buy the bosch sensor everytime it fails.", key word being your which means ME not anyon else. I never stated in the post you were asking about anything about being willing to buy sensors all the time. I just stated (as I already said) facts about the reason to mount the sensor 36" or more from the turbo.

I think your reason for editing that post is funny seeing how you are disagreeing with everything I have said. If you want to keep going off topic then pm me.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Personally, I wouldn't waste money on an EGT gauge. Just keep in mind, that you can read high EGT's running rich or lean. As for the WBO2, I plan on moving mine closer to the turbo than the recommended 36" this spring. I'm getting sick of leaking flex sections throwing off the WBO2 reading, so I can't comment on how long the sensor will last being that close to the turbo. Besides, they aren't that expensive.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

An EGT gauge is NOT a waste of money..Any good tuner out there knows the importance of exhaust gas temperatures. The most useful function of an EGT gauge is to monitor ignition timing, and if you need to take some advance out, or put some in. Too retarded ignition timing can cause very hot EGT. Too many people assume EGT only relates to AFR(eg too lean causes hot EGT), which is not the case at all. While too lean AFR *can* cause high egt's, its not the only thing. Timing advance plays a very important role in EGT. From all the boosted engine's i've tuned, i always use a wideband o2, an EGT, and if possible, knock detection of some kind. This way, for example, if you are running very rich at WOT, wideband says you are in the 10 AFR range, AND you have high EGT, this means you need more timing advance..if your boost level and fuel octane can support it.

I would *never* tune off of EGT alone. EGT plus AFR wideband will always be the best way.

As for wideband o2 placement, most manufactures recommend a minimum of 18" from turbo outlet. This is ONLY because of heat, and *in case* your EGT gets super hot. Having it closer or farther in the pipe, has nothing to do with accurate readings. The farther back you put it, the longer the delay to read. This only really effects idle, since exhaust gas velocity is rather slow. My wideband is in the downpipe, right at the 90 degree bend by the front of the oilpan. It's been there since day one, and has lasted well over a year now this way. You can put the wideband in the stock o2 housing if you really wanted to, just make sure not to run EGT's through the roof.

 

[gixrman]

Really what gauge is any good that has rapid fluctuations in readings that is not either logable or has some sort of warning or recall system. Think about when your doing a tunning run, where are you looking? The tach, WB, road, ect. I always thought my EGT was pointless for that reason. Theres just to much going on, by the time you notice its bouncing off 1600 its to late. If your going to spend the money on EGT system do so on one that you can compare to other readings so you do know whats going on at specific points in the run and even in each cylinder, other wise it is pretty much pointless.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Depends on what type of engine management you have i guess...I run the Megasquirt, so i can pretty much log everything but EGT at the moment. When doing a run, i pretty much stare at the wideband, tach and EGT gauges. I usually wont even look at the EGT until mid/end of the run, where EGT will be at it's peak. During this time, i focus on AFR, the track, and the tach. A simple shift light will help to keep you from even looking at the tach, as you can use can see the light from the corner of your sight. Its really not that hard, esp at a track, where you should be tuning anyway. You dont need to stare at the track during a run.. Quick glances at gauges and the track has always worked great for me. Either that or a dyno where you can focus on tuning. EGT is very important. But anyway, it's my engine. Haven't melted or blown one up yet Do with yours as you see fit..

 

[spyderturbo007]

An EGT gauge is NOT a waste of money..Any good tuner out there knows the importance of exhaust gas temperatures.

I must be a crappy tuner.

The most useful function of an EGT gauge is to monitor ignition timing, and if you need to take some advance out, or put some in.

I would much rather look at my logger to monitor timing, rather than guessing as to if my high EGT's were caused by timing, AFR, knock, etc. Plus, my logger updates 8 or 10 times a second, as opposed to waiting forever for the pyrometer to respond.

 

[whiteythepimp]

Well the AEM says to mount approx. 18" away.. And yes.. Money isnt an issue over something as stupid as a sensor.. whats $100 a pop..?..

Anyways the original question was if i'm running dsmlink and have a aem eugo wideband.. Do I need to have an EGT sensor?... I'm not looking to tap my pretty little manifold

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

I must be a crappy tuner.



I would much rather look at my logger to monitor ontiming, rather than guessing as to if my high EGT's were caused by timing, AFR, knock, etc. Plus, my logger updates 8 or 10 times a second, as opposed to waiting forever for the pyrometer to respond.

What? Monitor timing? That tells you what timing is AT. How do you *know* that is what the engine setup really needs?? You have no clue. Just because your logger may say 18 degrees, how do you know this is optimum? A quick check of AFR will tell you if it's too lean. An EGT will tell you if you need more or less timing. A logger can't tell you that! It amazes me how many take ignition timing for granted, and just worry about AFR all the time..Its a FACT that ignition timing effects EGT greatly, and not at least referencing it while doing some tuning, is not being a good tuner. Sorry. There is a LOT more to good tuning then just dialing in the AFR. I would not rely on a wideband only for tuning. I would not rely on a EGT only for tuning. I rely on both to get the data i need to tune the engine efficiently, and safely. In my tuning experience, high EGT's have come from too retarded timing, and not from being too lean, for the given boost pressure and fuel octane rating. If you have to run 10 something AFR to keep your EGT's in check, then you need to adjust your timing. But everyone wants to run 30 psi on pump gas, so you really cant do that withtout knocking the engine to pieces.


I've found EGT data to be VERY useful when finding the knock limit of any engine setup, with a certain fuel octane rating. If my AFR is rich, and timing is ok, yet EGT is really high, and more advance causes knock, then i've run out of effective fuel octane for that given setup and boost pressure.

Tuning is one big balancing act. Compression ratio, boost pressure, timing, AFR, fuel octane all work together to make power. Its up to the tuner to get the right data and adjust to balance it all. It takes a lot more than just a wideband.

A good, SAFE tuner will use EGT, AFR, and knock sensing when tuning. Those 3 tools will get you a good safe tune, aside from hours on a dyno. People will always disagree, but thats fine.. The more you know...

 

[1992awdlaser]

Anyways the original question was if i'm running dsmlink and have a aem eugo wideband.. Do I need to have an EGT sensor?... I'm not looking to tap my pretty little manifold

Well it is your choice. You have my oppinion along with others and it looks to be about 50/50 between us.

 

[gixrman]

Anyways the original question was if i'm running dsmlink and have a aem eugo wideband.. Do I need to have an EGT sensor?... I'm not looking to tap my pretty little manifold

I have link also and no you don't need it. make sure your MAF is calibrated, log rpm's, timing, WB, knock, and fuel trims and your golden.