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Installing a turbo 4g63 into an nt 4g63

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mavisky

DSM Wiseman
5,387
43
Sep 13, 2002
Atlanta, Georgia
Over the past two years i've been converting my car from a september 91 build date 4g63 nt over to a gst. As you've most likely seen user xhypno has a fairly well put together setup for sticking a set of turbo only parts onto your nt and creating a 7psi or so car. Now this is a good deal for most people since they aren't looking for the kind of time or money it takes to do a full conversion like i did to my car, also it eliviates some of the troubles high hp dsm's have.

On the other hand though it limits you severely in the type of power you can make. The piston ring lands on the nt pistons (now we're mainly talking the nt 4g63 here) are in a terrible position. While more than sufficient in strength for a nt motor only pushing out 135hp out of its 2 liters, once boost is added problems suddenly arise. The ring lands are so high up on the piston skirts that a shockwave from pre-ignition (knock) can easily crack the land causing the ring to separate, lose compression, and god forbid internal engine damage. The obvious cure to this is to simply replace the pistons, but we're going to go a little farther than that, although we will spend some time on that as well.

Okay first off the swap we're going to be talking about is going to pertain to a 1991-1993 nt 4g63 in which we completely swap in a domestic or jdm turbo 4g63.

Choosing the engine:
Getting ahold of the engine and its accessories is the most important part to not spending all friggin year trying to pull this off. I believe that there are only a few really good methods in going about this. And for god's sake get a 6 bolt while you're at it.

One: Find someone with a wrecked awd or fwd turbo. I personally picked up my engine for $1200 with my choice of whatever accessories i wanted.

Two: Search the junkyards for a complete car with engine and all accessories still attached to it. Most could probably be had for nearly the same price as buying one off of an individual.

Three: Build or buy a jdm engine and then find either a local parts car or one in a scrapyard to get ahold of the accessories you either won't recieve, or in the case of the jdm, may be damaged.

Engine accessories: First we'll assume that you were lucky enough to find a complete longblock 6 bolt through either a fellow dsmer, performance shop, or scrapyard. Now the list of things you will want to get ahold of that pertain to the engine.

1. complete turbo long block (blcok and head including internals and bolted attachments such as oil pump and such). - already been covered

2. mass air sensor - the turbo mass air sensor has a 7th wire coming out of it as opposed to the nt's 6 wires.

3. fuel pressure solenoid - not really needed, but can be setup just the same as stock

4. turbo intake manifold and throttle body - the turbo intake manifold is already tapped with the vacuum line nipple for the bov, also it has the correct studs in it to use the turbo throttle body and elbow.

5. turbo exhaust manifold - pretty self explanatory hopefully, although make sure its at least for a 14b and not the automatic's 13g with the smaller opening.

6. turbo and related cooling and oil lines - now here is one that's an option. you can either go with a trusty 14b for awhile and stock lines or step up to the plate with a combination of any turbo/ oil feed line.

7. intercooler (side mount or front mount) - you will need!

8. intercooler piping-i reccomend starting with a sidemount and stock piping for most people to keep the initial cost down.

9. turbo fuel pump - this is an absolute must have, the nt fuel pump has no business handling boost.

10. BOV - stick with the stocker for now, its a great design and its cheap and adaptable.

11. turbo injectors - get the 450cc's from a 5 speed.

12. injector resistor pack - little gray case on the firewall, 5 wires coming out of it. you need this badly, we'll discuss hooking it up later on.

13. 1g fwd downpipe - you will have to ditch the stock pre-cat setup. if you can't make your own buschur sells a well priced 2.5" pressbent that hardly necks down at all for a good price.

14. wastegate solenoid and mbc - you will want the stock solenoid (the one you do the free mod to) as some people experience a rather annoying check engine light without it. get this even if you are getting an mbc just in case.

15. knock sensor - check the condition of the old one you got, if all the goo is running out of it, expect high counts of knock and prepare yourself to replace it.

16. o2 sensor - the wiring for the o2 sensor is longer in order to reach across the manifold and down to the o2 housing.

17. thermostat upper and lower housings - the thermostat housing has the extra lines built into it for the cooling of the turbo and oil filter.

18. coolant cross pipe - this also has a coolant line for the turbo built into it.

19. oil filter cooler - now this is going to be a needed item although make sure and match it up to numbers 17 & 18 so that they're all the same year.

Transmission:
Well now that we have your engine hopefully all accounted for and in order we need to move on to putting that power to the ground. There are a few different methods here and you are free to choose whichever you like.

1. retaining the 1g nt tranny - the 1g nt tranny can be retained in this fiasco in its exact form. you simply need to also utilize the 1g nt clutch and flywheel. 1g nt 4g63's came in 6 bolt and 7 bolt designs the same as the turbo cars did. since you hopefully chose a 6 bolt turbo engine having a 92 and up car can cause some problems with this. assuming your flywheels match up though, prepare to do some grinding. the turbo crankshaft has a locating pin on the end of it for the turbo flywheel, well as i'm sure you've noticed by now the nt flywheel doesn't have a little alignment hole for this. no big deal, simply grind the nubbin smooth (and make sure it is completely smooth since its the flywheel's mating surface to the crank and you wouldn't want a wobble there). i personally started by using a hard cutting disk on my dremel and then using a grinding stone to finish the job off. you will want to upgrade the stock nt clutch as it is totally uncapable of withstanding anywhere near 200hp. mine lasted a month of careful driving i believe. as far as buying nt clutches go, the choices are out there, but i personally don't have alot of experience with most of them (and am shopping for a replacement of the current one i have). most upgraded clutches should be able to contain the power available from a 14b but above that is apparently yet uncharted territory.

2. using a gst transmission - the gst transmission is a pretty simple install, although it can have its bugs. you'll need to make sure you have the flywheel, clutch, transmission, and rear aluminum cover from all the same year. of course you have to buy all of this so alot of people don't go this route. one of the nice things though is that alot of the mods companies like tre, bmtranny, and shepherd sell will work in this transmission as opposed to the nt in which they won't. the other nice thing is that this transmission has been proven to work at high power levels (although i don't see why the nt tranny would suddenly fail).

ECU and wiring harness: now we're into the most complex part of this all. the ecu/ wiring harness. there are again two ways of pulling this off, one cheap and labor intensive the other slightly more expensive but easier.

1. retaining the nt harness - the nt harness can be completely retained and only needs the addition of some wiring to become the equivalent of the turbo wiring harness.
what you'll need to wire in:

7th wire from mas - the 7th wire from the mas needs to be run back to pin number 6

knock sensor - one wire can be grounded to the engine bay somehow, the other white wire needs to be run back to pin number 9 on the ecu.

wastegate solenoid - one wire here will be grounded, the other returns to the ecu at pin number 105

injector resistance pack - this is the most dificult. i'll let the following pictures describe it rather than trying to explain it in text. if you have any questions just ask.

thanks to don over at aialmatrix for getting mine to run and making this great diagram.
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here's a link to my imagestation account where i have the factory ecu prints. the highlighted ones need added, and the model is in the upper corner so you don't get confused.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291950155

If there are any more questions feel free to ask away in this thread. but let's limit the "that's cool" and other pointless posts. i don't want this to grow as thick as the other one where you have to wallow through 240+ posts to get your info.

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Last edited:
an idea just popped into my head. some of you guys might possibly be running around with automatic transmissions. well unfortunately i've never owned one (and don't intend to) and so therefore i have absolutely no knowledge of the dsm automatic for the 2.0 nt or any other for that matter.

if you have any questions regarding it i'd try and take it up with someone in the transmission forum. if you do get an answer let me know and i'll post it over here :thumb:

so far this is the only thread i've found:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37867

although i'll keep looking myself.
 
once again.....i'm sure i didn't cover everything here. so instead of pm'ing me for the answers, just ask them here so everyone else can learn from your problems or questions.
 
well u have answered almost all my ?'s but i have more!
1. is the talon engine the same as a eclipse??
2. is it better to get a turbo harness other that trying to keep the nt one??
3. i have a 2.0L nt talon 6 bolt, do i have to get a 6bolt engine and standard??
4. how is that grinding thingh u said about that you have to grind alittle in order to fit your flywheel??

thanks!

another thing can i just get a turbo 2.0L engine and drop it in my talon??
please help me
 
Originally posted by alltalon
well u have answered almost all my ?'s but i have more!
1. is the talon engine the same as a eclipse??
2. is it better to get a turbo harness other that trying to keep the nt one??
3. i have a 2.0L nt talon 6 bolt, do i have to get a 6bolt engine and standard??
4. how is that grinding thingh u said about that you have to grind alittle in order to fit your flywheel??

thanks!

another thing can i just get a turbo 2.0L engine and drop it in my talon??
please help me

Yes,the eclipse engine and the talon engine are the same,both manafactured by mitsubishi.
Installing a turbo wiring harness is quite a job in itself,but it makes the engine install a little easier(not worth it to me).
You don't HAVE to get a turbo 6-bolt,but you'd be alot better off.
On the transmission side of the block where the flywheel bolts on,there is a little bump on the crankshaft and the turbo flywheel is keyed to accomodate this bump, you have to grind it off in order to retain your stock N/T flywheel.
 
Originally posted by TalonR
One more Question. Does hahn turbo systems make anything for the 1g talons or the 4g63 engine in general. I liked the results with the 420a engine. Any answers help. Thanks!!!!!!!!

for your first question,yes its a fairly easy project to undergo if you do all your research and take your time to do things right. to the best of my knowledge all the 1g 4g63 motor mounts are interchangeable,you'd be best off to go with a 90-91 motor because they were stronger. no,hahn racecraft does not make turbo kits for 1g's,they only offer upgrades for factory turbo cars. if done right with the nt tranny,clutch, and turbo motor, you'll be very happy with the outcome and it will be a very streetable car.
 
ok, now that i have researched the swap, i have a ? that is really getting crazy! is about the harness of the engine. about this topic which one is safer to have?? get a new turbo harness or do it the other way and turn the non- turbo harness to a turbo one??. well can anyone tell me which one is safer and please can anyone send a page that shows u how to do it with pics and stuff! thanks!!!




There is nothing better than to have a DSM :dsm: :talon: :laser: --->:thumb:
 
Originally posted by TalonR
Hey I appreciate the help, now just to find an engine, and it will all begin. Does anyone have advice on a clutch that will hold up.

if you don't mind the harsh engagement www.capclutch.com offers a 5 puck for use with the nt transmission that held all the power my 14b could ever put down, but slips sometimes now with my 16g at only 16 psi.

act also offers an xtreme kit that you can get from www.clutchcityonline.com for pretty cheap, claims to hold 330 ft/lbs of torque, and by swapping in act's 6 puck disc that claim goes up to 414.

i'll most likely be trying out the act clutch sometime this summer.
 
Originally posted by alltalon
ok, now that i have researched the swap, i have a ? that is really getting crazy! is about the harness of the engine. about this topic which one is safer to have?? get a new turbo harness or do it the other way and turn the non- turbo harness to a turbo one??. well can anyone tell me which one is safer and please can anyone send a page that shows u how to do it with pics and stuff! thanks!!!




There is nothing better than to have a DSM :dsm: :talon: :laser: --->:thumb:


there is no easy way to do either, i'll tell you that right now. and neither one is any more unsafe than the other since you are essentially creating a turbo harness out of your nt by adding a few wires.

if you decide to keep and modify your nt harness (most do it seems) then all the instructions are up above.

if you decide to swap in a turbo wiring harness prepare to remove your entire dash and some of your heating equipment to get to it. not impossible, but no fun if you've never done it before.
 
here's some pics i took recently while i was putting my new tranny in.

here's a pic of the nt throttle body and intake.
 

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the resistor pack mounting.
 

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here's where i passed the wires through for converting my nt harness to a turbo harness.
 

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now that i have decided to keep my harness, what type of wire i should use?? and to where these wire go?? well MAVISKY if you can make a chart on paint shop or something that shows us how to do it it would be awsome! because some of us, like me i am really concerned of where wires go! so like a diagram explain where these wires go like the one u or the one u got for the injectors!

thanks alot!
 
i already have a pic for how to run the injectors just up above.

as for the other wires i have a link to an imagestation gallery with the proper schematics.

not to sound like a dick, but if you can't figure it out between my description and the pics and the schematics, maybe you should try and get some help from someone who can be there to guide you on a day to day basis or pay a shop to do it.
 
Hey maviski, I appreciate the help, I'll check into that act clutch, It will take a bit longer now, someone just side swiped my car in a parking lot, Got f***ed up good. Anyway how long has your engine been in your car? Do you use it as a daily driver and if so, any big problems with it? You've a big help with the diagrams. thanks again............
 
this engine has been in my car for a year now and i have had no engine related troubles. i've had some trouble with the transmission, but those were my fault and not due to any overpowering of the transmission i've experienced.
 
i have a doubt and that is from a non turbo car to a turbo car!. i always have in mind like how much psi can this engine and non-turbo tranny hold?? because i know there is a stable psi that u can run without screwing up your engine aor tranny!

thanks!
 
huh??

i've been pushing 16 psi on a ported big 16g through this nt tranny just fine and i don't see any signs of it giving in any time soon. the engine is no different than the engine in an awd of fwd turbo. if you're talking about turbo'ing your nt motor you want the other thread and not this one.
 
i was not talking about turboing a non turbo car! i was saying that how much psi can a car that had a nt engine and has now a turbo engine, how much psi?? so 16 psi is the most you can push it to! well now that we are in the topic of psi, can u tell me, if u can fel the power on 16 PSI?? also like how much hp does 16 psi gives u?? a nt engine puts out like 135hp, can u tell me how much hp does a turbo engine put out??
 
look
once you put the turbo 4g63 engine in the car you will no longer need to post in this thread about tuning it. your car is essentially a gst with a different tranny. everything related to tuning it can be addressed (and most likely has already been adressed) in the "2.0 performance" forum
 
Originally posted by alltalon
i was not talking about turboing a non turbo car! i was saying that how much psi can a car that had a nt engine and has now a turbo engine, how much psi?? so 16 psi is the most you can push it to! well now that we are in the topic of psi, can u tell me, if u can fel the power on 16 PSI?? also like how much hp does 16 psi gives u?? a nt engine puts out like 135hp, can u tell me how much hp does a turbo engine put out??

A turbo block has pistons manufactured to hold boost, so essentially you could put out 25+psi on a bigger turbo and a few fuel and air supporting mods.

What do you mean when you say "Can you feel 16psi?" 11.1 psi is the stock setting on a 1G with the turbo block and it has 100+ more hp then the without the turbo. (low compression pistons the turbo blocks have can't put out much power without a turbo). So yes you can feel 16 psi.

16 psi can roughly get you from 50-150 hp depending on your turbo efficiency, cooling efficiency, fuel mods and other various factors. (atmosphere pressure... etc)

From what you are saying, you don't know much about what's going on within a turbo set-up. Before you ruin a good car, read up a bit... well read up a lot.
 
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