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Cylinder Honing ect....

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Vegas Smith

20+ Year Contributor
5,190
3,106
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
It turns out i need new piston rings. since the enging is going to be torn apart on the rebuild, i figured i would put in the 2g pistons. therefore i have a few questions.
when changing to new pistons and rings, do i need to hone or bore the cylinder out? how can i tell if i dont, by simple scarring and scratches?
also, is it really plausable for a guy like me( a person who has never worked on the internals of an engine) to swap pistons and do them correctly? im good with the wrench but im very green when it comes to engines.
thanks for any input, i hope this is in the right forum..i consider anything inside the engine to be extreme.
 
alright, i just read that i should hone it. can i do that myself? i could have sworn i saw a honing kit at o'reilly autoparts.
 
Going with 2G pistons on 1G "big" rods seems to be no longer worth the investment - since the cost of the 2G pistons is $160, rings $100 and machining the 1G rods to accept the 2G pistons costs anywhere between 100 and 200 dollars - and one can purchase a set of aftermarket forged pistons + rings for less than $400.
In any case, the block needs to be at least honed (to achieve proper break-in and sealing of the new rings) and yes, you can do it yourself if on very tight budget while doing just very basic rebuild, although boring the cylinders 0.020' over and having the block torque-plate honed is highly recommended for any high performance engine build-up.
 
thats what i was thinking. why spend close to 400$ on the 2g pistons when you can buy better forged pistons for around the same price. and they fit your 1g rods. does anybody have any idea how much it costs to hone and bore a block? i guess i should have posted this under 2.0 perf, sorry:)
 
Originally posted by Taboo
Going with 2G pistons on 1G "big" rods seems to be no longer worth the investment - since the cost of the 2G pistons is $160, rings $100 and machining the 1G rods to accept the 2G pistons costs anywhere between 100 and 200 dollars - and one can purchase a set of aftermarket forged pistons + rings for less than $400.
In any case, the block needs to be at least honed (to achieve proper break-in and sealing of the new rings) and yes, you can do it yourself if on very tight budget while doing just very basic rebuild, although boring the cylinders 0.020' over and having the block torque-plate honed is highly recommended for any high performance engine build-up.

You are correct regarding the cost, however one thing that should be mentioned is the extra clearance required for forged pistons, as well as the extra time that you must spend warming up an engine with forged pistons. Don't get me wrong, I have forged Wiseco's in my motor, but I do wait 5-10 minutes every time I start it (cold). The pistons quiet down after a couple of minutes. <== Edited (yes, all of my clearances are spot on)

Further, if you don't have a set of snap gauges and micrometers (or some other suitable piston/cylinder measuring devices), then changing pistons should be left to your machinist. Ideally, you would need a machinist with a torque-plate as well.

Just a couple of things to consider...
 
waiting for the car to warmup is no big deal at all, can you drive it like that or do you just sit there for 10 minutes? this is really a no-bullshit car. no fancy rims, no stickers, no new paintjob. just go fast, and if the forged are the way to go, then ill do that.

also, do i absolutely need these measuring devices? let me also add that my brother-in-law will be overseeing this project. the guy is a current student at hotrod university. hes one of the best in the school, very knowledgable. just thought i would add that .

i was thinking, what if i took the engine out. disassembled it then had a shop put the pistons in, think that would work? thanks
 
Well candela's car was machined by slowboy racing and it really does depend on who did it. his car isnt noisy at all at start/warm up...
Just make sure you go to a trusted machinest
 
Originally posted by mrmadmax
You are correct regarding the cost, however one thing that should be mentioned is the extra clearance required for forged pistons, as well as the extra time that you must spend warming up an engine with forged pistons.
The recommended piston-to-bore clearance of the stock pistons is 0.0012-0.0020" while Wiseco recommends 0.0030". When honing a standard bore used block (where slightly increased piston-to-bore clearance may be assumed, 'though should definitely be carefully checked and verified), the 0.0010" difference gets easily removed in the process. In any case, shelling out $400 for forged pistons while not having the block bored and machined by reputable machine shop is definitely not a wise thing to do, since just honing the cylinders in one's garage may be good enough for some cheap half-a$$ed re-ring job.
I've never experienced a piston slap with Wiseco, Ross or Arias pistons, though - unlike with JE pistons due to their greater expansion rate.
 
well basically, i want ot do it right the first time. im not a big fan of half-ass stuff. i just dont want to spen 900$ on labor on something that i could possibly do and learn a tremendous amount from. i plan on getting wiseco 8.8 pistons, 20 overbore, cometic hg, clevite bearings ect.
 
Originally posted by Vegas smith
waiting for the car to warmup is no big deal at all, can you drive it like that or do you just sit there for 10 minutes? this is really a no-bullshit car. no fancy rims, no stickers, no new paintjob. just go fast, and if the forged are the way to go, then ill do that.

also, do i absolutely need these measuring devices? let me also add that my brother-in-law will be overseeing this project. the guy is a current student at hotrod university. hes one of the best in the school, very knowledgable. just thought i would add that .

i was thinking, what if i took the engine out. disassembled it then had a shop put the pistons in, think that would work? thanks

Yeah, you can drive it that way, but you really should wait for it to warm up. The noise only lasts for a short period of time. Upon rereading my post, I guess I made it out to sound like they make alot of noise. It's actually fairly subtle, but it IS there. This noise is NOT to be confused with the slap heared on a very loose piston under power.

Here's the deal. I'll try to explain this without starting a "my machinist is better than your machinist" thread, as it seems like that's where this may go. If you run a forged piston, you have two common alloys available: 2618 alluminum, and 4032 alluminum. The 4032 has a higher silicon content, which helps to control thermal expansion, but has poorer properties when dealing with crack propagation. The 2618 has much less silicon, and a bit more copper and magnesium (among other things), so it expands about 14% more but has better fracture/fatigue properties. The 2618 is most popular. Either alloy will work well for your car, given that you follow the manufacturers recomendation regarding clearances.

This leads to my next point. Yes, some type of precision measuring equipment is mandatory if you intend to do the job without "half a$$ing" it. Don't try to hone 0.0010" out of your cylinders to fit your pistons. I've done a few engine blocks by hand (when the power hone broke), and I can assure you it's a pain. Pull the motor, take it to a machinist to fit the pistons, then assemble it yourself.

As for other people not hearing any noise on cold start up with a forged piston, maybe it's because their car is in Arizona when it's "cold" and mine is in central Oregon (50 degree lows vs 20 degree lows). Maybe it's because their pistons were fit tighter than recomended, or maybe they just don't hear it; but I do in my car, and I personally verified clearance 90 degrees to the pin bore at the recomended location on the skirt as 0.0030" (Wiseco) with a Sunnen dial bore gauge and a Starrett Micrometer, all on 70 degree stabalized parts; just the same as my machinist did. I know it was done correctly. (yes a torque plate was used)

I've built far too many engines with my machining or someone elses to believe that forged pistons "never" make any noise if they are "machined right", so I will just agree to disagree on the noise issues. The point is, they make noise, but it's tolerable for a little extra security.

Sorry for the book.....
 
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