Winter 07/08 Projects and Plans?

[housegsx]

Then they should work for the 2g guys. I don't think they make a kit for the 1g. I thought TCE used to do rear upgrades for the DSMs too.

[talonTSIDriver]

Originally Posted by housegsx

Then they should work for the 2g guys. I don't think they make a kit for the 1g. I thought TCE used to do rear upgrades for the DSMs too.

they do make a kit for the rears. But i dont know if its worth another grand for upgraded rear brakes.

[tsiboosted]

Didnt know if you saw the edited version of my post Andy.

Originally Posted by tsiboosted

No I understand that Kyle. But better than a full blown race car like Greg had ?? I understand what you are trying to say and I agree man.



I use the VIP Garage Centric Slotted rotors in the rear with Hawk HPS pads and have never had an issue.



If you are more concerned with the balance of the brakes, instead of trying to get a "better" setup as a rotor/pad combo. Maybe try a brake bias setup with a proportioning valve like this one.



Allows easy adjustment of front to rear brake bias. Works on all race cars. 100 to 1500 psi range, up to 57% pressure reduction. It uses 1/8" NPT fittings.

Compensates for weight transfer to the front wheels during braking. All factory brake systems allow for this in some fashion. An APV allows you to "fine tune" a street or race brake system (which normally uses components from a variety of sources) and thus prevents severe rear brake lockup under moderate-to-heavy braking. THis may be something you might want to try as well Kyle.

I am going to be going to s a setup similar to this once I get all the engine work done.

p.s. - HaHaHaHa....Looks like I was too slow trying to find a picture of the brake bias control. But like Andy said, if you do this, you may also want to come up with some sort of ducting system to the rear brakes as well as the front brakes to hender fading as much as you can. But with my experience on other race cars using a brake bias setup, they did not experience fading at all. That was noticably different to "normal" fading I mean in a race car.

Also, with hardly any weight in the rear of our cars (gutted ones anyway) the rear brakes are not under a sevre load to begin with. I have only changed my rear pads once all season. And I actually could use them again if there was an emergency of some sort. But more cooling back there especially if you dial more bias to the rear would never hurt anything.

[housegsx]

How would you set it up with that proportioning valve? Would you run two of them between each side front and rear? You would obviously have to run new lines and eliminate the factory proportioning valve, correct...

[tsiboosted]

Originally Posted by housegsx

How would you set it up with that proportioning valve? Would you run two of them between each side front and rear? You would obviously have to run new lines and eliminate the factory proportioning valve, correct...

I am not 100%. Thats why I pay my mechanic You do eliminate the factory one though I would think. To the best of my knowledge and experience, you only use 1 valve. My dads race car only has one in his. And all the other cars I have seen only used the one. So again, I am not 100% sure.

[housegsx]

Yes, you can only turn down the pressure with those valves, not up. So I would assume you need to bypass the original valving.

[snowborder714]

Here's a link that talks about different setups.
Pad Knockback

In post 51, there's 2 different setups. Eric's looking into trying to find someone that makes (or could make) a dual APV, but it doesn't seem like it's out there. So he's also looking into running 2 APV's so he could keep the diagonal setup as shown in the first image.

[tsiboosted]

Originally Posted by snowborder714

Here's a link that talks about different setups.
Pad Knockback

In post 51, there's 2 different setups. Eric's looking into trying to find someone that makes (or could make) a dual APV, but it doesn't seem like it's out there. So he's also looking into running 2 APV's so he could keep the diagonal setup as shown in the first image.

Yeah, I read those posts. Looks as though it can be done. I was only concerned really with balancing a little between the front and rear. Currently, I am having no issues with brakes. Will change with the more power I will be putting down. But then, new brake setup will not be far behind that. Just adding to the topic is all.

[Slow old poop]

Originally Posted by tsiboosted

I have only changed my rear pads once all season. And I actually could use them again if there was an emergency of some sort. But more cooling back there especially if you dial more bias to the rear would never hurt anything.

I ran stock rear brakes and a super aggressive Carbotech pad. The rears never got hot and never wore down all season. If I had kept the car (like I said somewhere above) I was going to put a proportioning valve in to get more work out of the rears. Unless you do that, big rotors, Evo calipers, aggressive pads and cooling won't do diddly, because the rears don't contribute much.

Someone said they are running Powerslops on the rears. That's probably the only application where it is safe to run those crappy rotors, because they don't have to do anything. Whatever you do, don't put them on the front. I broke (as in BROKE IN HALF!!) two Powerslops on my 3000GT, and that gets plumb scary when it happens. Underradar explained about the ABS system on 3000GTs: if it wasn't for that (and long grassy runoffs) I woulda been in big trouble both times I broke 'em. Stay away from Powerslops.

[tsiboosted]

Originally Posted by Slow old poop

I ran stock rear brakes and a super aggressive Carbotech pad. The rears never got hot and never wore down all season. If I had kept the car (like I said somewhere above) I was going to put a proportioning valve in to get more work out of the rears. Unless you do that, big rotors, Evo calipers, aggressive pads and cooling won't do diddly, because the rears don't contribute much.

Someone said they are running Powerslops on the rears. That's probably the only application where it is safe to run those crappy rotors, because they don't have to do anything. Whatever you do, don't put them on the front. I broke (as in BROKE IN HALF!!) two Powerslops on my 3000GT, and that gets plumb scary when it happens. Underradar explained about the ABS system on 3000GTs: if it wasn't for that (and long grassy runoffs) I woulda been in big trouble both times I broke 'em. Stay away from Powerslops.

You are very correct Rich. That is what I was saying earlier in the thread as well. My rear brakes hardly do any work. I try not to use the brakes as much as possible anyway.

I had heard about the PowerSLots before and stayed awy from them for the same reasons you stated above.

I have had no issues with the VIP Garage setup I run now and have all season. And I said before, I run the Hawk HPS pads in the rear and they get the job (little job) done. Marti and the guys there at VIP always hook me up when I need new stuff. Good guys and good equipment.

[housegsx]

Originally Posted by Slow old poop

Someone said they are running Powerslops on the rears. That's probably the only application where it is safe to run those crappy rotors, because they don't have to do anything. Whatever you do, don't put them on the front. I broke (as in BROKE IN HALF!!) two Powerslops on my 3000GT, and that gets plumb scary when it happens. Underradar explained about the ABS system on 3000GTs: if it wasn't for that (and long grassy runoffs) I woulda been in big trouble both times I broke 'em. Stay away from Powerslops.

I remember you telling me that a while back, but hopefully they do just fine on the rear. I originally bought them at the same time they bought out AEMs brake division and got a nice "surprise". I thought I was getting the AEM rear kit with a nice 2 piece rotor setup. Anyway, they've been holding up fine for me for what I use them for. Hopefully the powerslops are ok out back.

[talonTSIDriver]

Well when all this stupid white crap goes away, I will be hitting up my local speedway to do some testing on the car (They allows a few of use to use the track for practise/testing before the stock car guys have their practise session). I will try to do some scientific testing rather than using the butt dyno style of testing.

[Slow old poop]

Originally Posted by tsiboosted

I try not to use the brakes as much as possible anyway.

My kind of driver! Just one big bang on the brakes before the corner, turn in, and nail the gas! Who needs brakes?

Actually, the better you get, the less you need brakes. Watch the pros, and you won't see brake lights on for more than just a flash. Some of the guys on this forum can run stock fronts because they know how to use them. The Archer Brothers car (I think) runs stock fronts.

Maybe I will get to that point some day. Racing is a constant learning experience.

Probably requires professional instruction, though. And an awful lot of confidence that, when you wait until the last microsecond to brake, the brakes will be there when you smash that pedal. Pad knockback adds uncertainty to that little equation.

In fact, of all the brake mods being discussed here. the most important one (IMHO) is getting rid of pad knockback.

[cioc]

Has everyone read this?

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

You cannot dial in more rear pressure, unless you install the valve backwards and dial out more front. I'm leaving mine alone.

[talonTSIDriver]

Originally Posted by Slow old poop

My kind of driver! Just one big bang on the brakes before the corner, turn in, and nail the gas! Who needs brakes?

Actually, the better you get, the less you need brakes. Watch the pros, and you won't see brake lights on for more than just a flash. Some of the guys on this forum can run stock fronts because they know how to use them. The Archer Brothers car (I think) runs stock fronts.

Maybe I will get to that point some day. Racing is a constant learning experience.

Probably requires professional instruction, though. And an awful lot of confidence that, when you wait until the last microsecond to brake, the brakes will be there when you smash that pedal. Pad knockback adds uncertainty to that little equation.

In fact, of all the brake mods being discussed here. the most important one (IMHO) is getting rid of pad knockback.

I have not had a huge problem with pad knockback yet. However you can get some spacers for the pads which is suppose to reduce the amount the pad gets "knocked back"

as for braking, Brake LATE and HARD. Once you get a really good feel for your car, you want to brake going into the apex and slowly let off as your also on the gas. The idea is to stay right on the edge of the traction circle.

[tsiboosted]

Originally Posted by Slow old poop

My kind of driver! Just one big bang on the brakes before the corner, turn in, and nail the gas! Who needs brakes?

Actually, the better you get, the less you need brakes. Watch the pros, and you won't see brake lights on for more than just a flash. Some of the guys on this forum can run stock fronts because they know how to use them. The Archer Brothers car (I think) runs stock fronts.

Maybe I will get to that point some day. Racing is a constant learning experience.

Probably requires professional instruction, though. And an awful lot of confidence that, when you wait until the last microsecond to brake, the brakes will be there when you smash that pedal. Pad knockback adds uncertainty to that little equation.

In fact, of all the brake mods being discussed here. the most important one (IMHO) is getting rid of pad knockback.

Well thank you Rich. Brakes just slow you down anyway dont they? Its all about knowing your can do and what you can do as a driver. When we have open sessions, I do a drill with myself for the first say 10 or so minutes of the session where I will not use the brakes at all. Then slowly go faster and faster through out the session. Obviously you have to hit the brakes at places the faster you go. But you come to a realization that you dont need them as much as you think you do. Still, they are nice to have when you do "need" them

[Slow old poop]

Originally Posted by talonTSIDriver