Different Turn Signal Problem

[L2RTSiAWD]

I was reading the other thread but my problem is different so I wanted to start a new thread.

My turn signals decide to work whenever they want. Sometimes they will work all day. Sometimes I will make 2 turns and they will work and then on 3rd turn I move the stalk and nothing. When they don't work the hazards don't work either so I don't think it's a stalk problem. Sometimes they will work for a few days straight. I have no clue what it's doing and I haven't been able to narrow it down to any one specific thing that makes them stop working. This started about 2 weeks ago and I hadn't done anything to the car in a while.

 

[Piranha451]

From what you mentioned about the hazards also not working, you may want to stat with replacing the relay. I believe it is in the area behind the radio. At least in my car that is where the 'clicking' noise seems to be eminating from. When I had tried looking for it once I did not see it at all near the fuse box under the dash.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ya the "turn signal and hazard flasher unit" behind the radio is the most likely culprit although I have on rare occasions seen an intermittently bad turn signal bulb (or bad/corroded connection at the bulb) do this. Does it do it on both sides? When it doesn't work does the turn signal light go on at all (and just not blink)?

 

[EclipseMGP]

I'm the guy with the other turn signal thread. I was searching last night and there was this thread about replacing the relay behind the radio

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213339

Also listed within the link were even better pictures of the location (this is a link to azdave's pictures)

http://www.rcaz.com/rcaz/sub indexes/turn_signal_flasher/index.htm

You're probably not loooking to mod anything, as the site says, but there are good picutures of the location of the relay.

Too bad I've determeined that I have a bad switch in the steering column. Looks like I'll be removing the steering wheel this weekend.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Ya the "turn signal and hazard flasher unit" behind the radio is the most likely culprit although I have on rare occasions seen an intermittently bad turn signal bulb (or bad/corroded connection at the bulb) do this. Does it do it on both sides? When it doesn't work does the turn signal light go on at all (and just not blink)?

I'll have to check to see when it works then doesn't if it's only when I got right or only left. When it does stop the lights don't go on at all. I here an inital click when I move the stalk up or down but nothing after that.

 

[GTM]

I'll have to check to see when it works then doesn't if it's only when I got right or only left. When it does stop the lights don't go on at all. I here an inital click when I move the stalk up or down but nothing after that.

Check all the lights outside the car (not the headlights), if it's having one of it's better moments and flashing, check for proper operation by walking the car. I'm not sure if this has 2 flashers, one for turn and another for hazard. If it's a combinde single be suspect of the flasher, sometimes it's easier to just plug in another known good unit than to troubleshoot. The hazard circuit should have power all the time, remember you also have a bulb check circuit which could also be giving problems. Also brake lights may be part of this circuit on 1 bulb of each side.

I'm not ready to dismiss the turnsignal lever for the 4 way flasher may need this to complete the circuit. I had a wire diagram but of course can't find it now. Let us know what you find and I'll look for the schematic which is for 1st Gen but may help.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I do have a front turnsignal bulb out, but that had been out for a while and would only be out when I turned the lights on but would still flash if I used the turn signal

 

[GTM]

I do have a front turnsignal bulb out, but that had been out for a while and would only be out when I turned the lights on but would still flash if I used the turn signal

Yuck, you do have to make things complicated. I'm leaning towards bad bulb contacts with this new bit of info which will require pulling and cleaning the bases, bulbs, and spraying with WD-40. Because the bulb check circuit is a floating ground which changes paths during certain operations could explain the change when the lights are on. As the bulbs get more corroded the resistance reaches an open circuit trips the bulb check and won't let current flow. However when the lights are on, it now has a new ground circuit and the bulb is working.

Don't spend more than 1/2 hour with the cleaning for I don't want you wasting your time. There are a lot of bulbs out there that look the same but the wattage is too low and won't heat the flasher circuit to cause it to flash. Make sure nobody switched bulbs on you the single fillament will probably be a 1054, and the double an 1157, can't remember the numbers for the festunes.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[tsunari]

http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/LampReplacementGuide/
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/LampReplacementGuide/

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Thanks for the info, I will try the cleaning and a new bulb.

I got in the car after work. Started it. Signals worked. Walked around the car and all flashers worked and the hazards worked. I started my way home with the lights off and the signals worked fine. Turned the lights on 3/4 of the way home and the lights still worked all the way home. I'm confused but I will try whant you said GTM and thanks for the link tsunari, it looks like they are 1157.

 

[GTM]

Thanks for the info, I will try the cleaning and a new bulb.
...
it looks like they are 1157.

You can make a 1" slot a wooden dowel, take a 2" wide strip of 600 grit water sandpaper fold in half, insert in slot and wrap the excess around the dowel and twist in the bulb socket. If the battery is disconnected you can use a wire battery terminal brush.spray with WD-40 and wipe clean. A couple of twists in the sandpaper for the bulb bases and the solder connections. Make sure the spring loads for the bulb base connections are free and not rusted.

I can't remember if there is a cornering /side flasher light that is part of the front. If so they may have the festune bulb that may be like the instruments though of higher wattage (.9 -2.5 watts comes to mind).

That 1157 & 1054 have been around since the early 60's when they changed from 6 volt to 12 volt systems to save on copper wire costs. Effectively they were able to drop 1-2 gage sizes for every circuit on the car and saved $1. It still is still one of the purest forms of copper even higher than the old copper penny. Automotive bulbs were rated in the 100,000-300,000 hours for they were considered a safety item especially on motorcycles. Now take a look, what a joke, you buy a new car and the bulbs burn out in a year. Go to a wrecking yard and start pulling bulbs, half will be original equipment on 25 year old cars.
Cheers,
GTM

 

[luv2rallye]

Actually most of the bulbs are 2057 not 1157. Here's the rest: http://www.theherd.com/articles/bulbs.html.
I agree completely with GTM on cleaning all the bulb sockets/connections. Corrosion is common on these. The turn signal flasher unit is a module that contains 4 relays and circuitry within it and will probably be pricey new so check those bulb sockets first and replace any bad bulbs and if need the unit go find a used one (swap with a known good one if possible first).

 

[GTM]

Actually the bulbs are 2057 not 1157. Here's the rest: http://www.theherd.com/articles/bulbs.html.

Want to put a virtual beer on that???

Besides the URL author has an IMPALA...

Something tells me the 2057 wasn't even made back then. I was searching the the Zone a few months back and noted a big price difference between the 1157 and the lower wattage (CP) 2057. As if that's not enough I've had to pull 2057 JUST BECAUSE they would _not_ always trip the turn signal flasher on older cars. Hint hint.

The above author describes the 2057/1157 as parking light bulbs when they are combo tail and stop light which are what people see from the rear. With more states requiring daytime driving lights when raining, stats have shown the safety value.

I'll make an educated guess the reason for the 2057 is because of the plastic reflectors, lens, bulb holders getting hot on the new cars thus to use cheaper plastics they reduce the wattage.

Here is a bit of an off topic shocker from 15 years ago, _all_ US mfg headlight bulbs met only minimum lighting standards. Is that what you want when driving on some mountain road or near a deer crossing while cruising in the 3 digit numbers??

The bottom line is I see no reason to put in a bulb that reduces visability which the 2057 will do. If you have a factory manual I'm sure they have a bulb chart.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[luv2rallye]

Ah ha, didn't notice he has an Impala, sorry. Funny how the 1157 never dies. Almost all my cars since the 60's had them. Even the above Sylvania link for the 95 Eclipse shows them on the parking light and front turn signal.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Just an FYI, I got in the car this morning and no turn signals at all while driving to work, yet they worked fine all the way home the previous night. I will see what I can do this weekend.

 

[GTM]

Ah ha, didn't notice he has an Impala, sorry. Funny how the 1157 never dies. Almost all my cars since the 60's had them. Even the above Sylvania link for the 95 Eclipse shows them on the parking light and front turn signal.

What's that saying... if you hear it, it must be true, if you read it, it may be a misprint. What I've learned in these 25+ years online is to only trust the most reliable of sources who's reputation is on the line. They don't rely on ghost writers to write their technical data info

Where's my beer?

I think the reason the old bulbs 25+ years ago were so good is because they used virgin Tungsten where today they are using recycled crap with a lot of impurities. I can see the price of bulbs increasing as the use of LEDs takes over the market.

Hopefully L2RTSiAWD will have a chance to do some diagnostic and inspection so we can get to the bottom of his problem.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Hopefully L2RTSiAWD will have a chance to do some diagnostic and inspection so we can get to the bottom of his problem.

Cheers,
GTM

I bought a replament bulb last night so I have that on hand and sometimes I'll try to get to some cleaning. While I was down there looking at how to replace the bulb I noticed that some of the wires going to the turnsignal were butt connected. I wonder if someone had spliced something in there before and now it's loose and shorting out. I'll have to check that out as well.

 

[tsunari]

If you need a new flasher relay, let me know sometime soon- there's a local junkyard with a GST in there- dunno how long it will remain there though . . .

 

[GTM]

...
While I was down there looking at how to replace the bulb I noticed that some of the wires going to the turnsignal were butt connected. I wonder if someone had spliced something in there before and now it's loose and shorting out. I'll have to check that out as well.

Hey, this was supposed to be a 1/2 hour job. Did something go south while checking those wires? Body shops are notorious for not paying attention when it comes to following color codes.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I got so busy with other stuff that I didn't get a chance to do anything on the car this weekend. I'll try this morning if not, then tomorrow for sure.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Ok I've done all the cleaning and I'm still not getting any turn signal. The only that is helping is heat??

When I get in the car in the morning and leave in the evening it's cool outside and the turn signals are not working, but if I go somewhere mid-afternoon when the temps are 90+ the turn signals work like a charm. I have no clue why that is happening.

 

[GTM]

Ok I've done all the cleaning and I'm still not getting any turn signal. The only that is helping is heat??

When I get in the car in the morning and leave in the evening it's cool outside and the turn signals are not working, but if I go somewhere mid-afternoon when the temps are 90+ the turn signals work like a charm. I have no clue why that is happening.

You are pushing your luck and my memory retention. I seem to recall a Vfaq of someone taking a TS switch apart and making contact repairs. This was 2-3 years ago and I can't remember his complaints nor can I find it now.

At this point I can only guess it's the switch, flasher(s) bulb check unit, or a poor connection that's heat related. Anything that has a transistor or IC chip could be the bad guy besides the switch.

I hate to have you get into the switch for it's going to be time consuming (1/2 day?) based on no solid pointers. If you have access to a cheap source of used parts or borrow them for testing the flasher(s) are probably the easiest to change.

I note that a lot of ignition switches these days are running warm to the point the clam-shell is warm to the touch. This could be your source of heat that's changing the switch contacts.

Any new additional observations that might help??

Cheers,
GTM

 

[luv2rallye]

When I get in the car in the morning and leave in the evening it's cool outside and the turn signals are not working, but if I go somewhere mid-afternoon when the temps are 90+ the turn signals work like a charm.

yep - it's still sounding more and more like the "turn signal and hazard flasher unit" which on the 2g is a module behind/above radio on right side. When the turn signals don't work you said the hazards don't either and this unit controls them both through common internal circuitry. This module has transistors, diodes, relays, etc in it (one of which may be temp sensitive) and is not going to be cheap if you get it new. Try to swap in a known good used one.

 

[tsunari]

yep - it's still sounding more and more like the "turn signal and hazard flasher unit" which on the 2g is a module behind/above radio on right side. When the turn signals don't work you said the hazards don't either and this unit controls them both through common internal circuitry. This module has transistors, diodes, relays, etc in it (one of which may be temp sensitive) and is not going to be cheap if you get it new. Try to swap in a known good used one.

Yeah, definitely try and snag one from a junk-yard . . . can probably get it for 5-10 bux (in my area at least).

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Ok, I will test the unit with a good one. I have access to parts so getting my hands one will not be a problem, I just have to get it on someone elses time. I will report back after I have tested this.