Timing help. Please. Noob with this stuff.

[dthquazi1]

i started the car up after putting the 14b back on, an evo 3 manifold, and a valve cover gasket and it boged for a couple seconds then ran fine. I started it a few more times and it did the same thing. I had the timing belt cover off because i was checking the valve cover gasket for leaks. I put the cover back on and started it and it bogged but i heard a rubbing noise. I took the cover back off and the gears were rubbing on the cam gears and belt. So just to make sure i started it again and my dad walks up in front off my car without me knowing and closes the hood. Now My car tries to dies and barely runs. here are some pics of my timming. I got the belt off and everything. I just need help lining them up. By the way i put everything at TDC or atleast i think i did but it may have moved a little from when i was getting the udp off.

And how do i proceed to adjust this.


**EDIT** I will put the pics in my gallery if it will let me. I can't put them on the page apparently.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33669&password=0&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=33668&password=0&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

 

[Boosted4]

well, here goes

first you might wanna go to www.vfaq.com and read the 1g timing belt install, if you have any questions after that ... ill keep checking the post im kind of an expert in that area

Brandon When posting VFAQ links, give THE REAL LINK, not just the main page link.

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[dthquazi1]

i am always leary of vfaq. I find them vaque at times and dont understand fully. Then i come here.

 

[BUCK]

1) For starters don't move anything anymore until you are cognizant of the ramifications - I personally would disconnect the Battery immediately.

2) I take it you let the Timing Belt Tensioner just extend when you took the T/Belt off? - If so you'll need the Allthread Tool to depress the Tensioner - You should at the very LEAST get a new Timing Belt to reinstall - No sense reinstalling an old belt...

 

[dthquazi1]

yeah i ordered the new belt. I unplugged the battery before i started. So how do i fix this here now. The un aligned marks i mean. that and can i just cut the bs belt and leave it off.

 

[x camaro owner]

replace those old brake hoses before you kill yourself, they make a balancing shaft elimantor kit for reason becuase its not a good idea to leave it just sitting in there some people say they have had problems i am unsure of that but i wouldn't try it if your going to do something do it right. clean up some of the oil and stuff so you can see what you are doing better or atleast for the pics

 

[x camaro owner]

using those clips is genius wish i would have thought of that when i did mine good luck

 

[dthquazi1]

i heard the bs eliminator is a pita to install. Right now the timing belt issue is a little more important. and i tryed to put the marks visable enough to see.

what clips?

 

[BUCK]

As you see from the VFAQ & your good pix the only thing out of time right now is your Oil Pump / Rear Balance Shaft Sprocket - Time it per the VFAQ.

This car appears to need all new Front Case Oil Seals - You remove the Front Case to install all new Oil Seals & then you're half way to Installing the Mirage Stub Oil Shaft that eliminates the Rear Balance Shaft - The Front Shaft is then disabled by removing the Front Balance Shaft Belt - Do NOT just remove the Front Balance Shaft Belt.

At a Minimum I would replace the Front Balance Shaft Belt, Timing Belt & Timing Belt Tensioner & do a helluva cleanup.

 

[dthquazi1]

what about the cams. Are they off considerably and how do i move them right. Do i use a sockect to spin them or what?

 

[BUCK]

As you see from the VFAQ & your good pix the only thing out of time right now is your Oil Pump / Rear Balance Shaft Sprocket - Time it per the VFAQ.

 

[dthquazi1]

i have two question...

If i put all the timing marks right it shoudln't matter if i took the belt off if it wasn't at tdc.

So it the crank is at tdc, the timing mark on the cams are correct and the timing mark on the oil one is coorect. It should run just fine right?

And


Do i really have to crack the center crank nut to install the bs belt . I really do not want to do that. Any pointers since my belt is already off.

 

[BUCK]

If i put all the timing marks right it shoudln't matter if i took the belt off if it wasn't at tdc.

yes BUT - you better not have "freewheeled" the Crank & Pistons into Valves that weren't in the proper position when the T/Belt was off & you were positioning stuff.

So it the crank is at tdc, the timing mark on the cams are correct and the timing mark on the oil one is coorect. It should run just fine right?

yes BUT - SEE THE PREVIOUS REPLY.

Do i really have to crack the center crank nut to install the bs belt . I really do not want to do that. Any pointers since my belt is already off..

The 6-Bolts have no room to get the new BS Belt over the Backplate - Your pic looks like a 6 Bolt to me so.... CAREFULLY REVIEW & EXECUTE THE VFAQ - Removing that Crank Bolt is a WONDERFUL opportunity to BEND VALVES!

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

Clean the hell out of that Front Case before you Install anything - You ought to be pulling it & installing a BSE anyway - You'll wish you had...

 

[dthquazi1]

i am not mechanically inclined to do such a thing at the moment. It looks like the biggest pain in the butt.

 

[dthquazi1]

I got another one.

I removed the timing belt already and have no air tools. Could i just put the belt on and not put it to the correct tension. I put the automatic tensioner? back on (the L shaped thinggy with two bolts and a rod with a hole in the end). And then crank it for a second to release the bolt or would that cause problems?

 

[johnk]

watch out when your timing your oil pump it does have to line up with the marks. But you have to rotate the gear twice to make the pump turn over once. So you can have the marks lined up and get some nice vibrations through out the whole car. Go back and rotate it again and you'll be good. If you don't want to do the work twice like I did VFAQ I'm sure describes the right way to set it.

All the other sprockets are simple line up and your good

 

[BUCK]

I got another one. I removed the timing belt already and have no air tools. Could i just put the belt on and not put it to the correct tension. I put the automatic tensioner? back on (the L shaped thinggy with two bolts and a rod with a hole in the end). And then crank it for a second to release the bolt or would that cause problems?

If you are asking should you have loosened the Big Crank Bolt before you took the Belt off the answer is yes - & Yes you could reinstall & properly re-tension T/Belt with only Crank & Cams in perfect Time (no need for front balancer belt to be on or Oil Pump & rear Balance Shaft to be in time just to Loosen Big Crank Bolt) Then use the rather dangerous but ever popular breaker Bar against the Fender well & tap starter method to loosen the Big Crank Bolt.

 

[dthquazi1]

yeah but im talking about not retensioning the belt to the proper tension. Just installing the compressed automatic tensioner and pulling the "pin". and leaving it at that. Could i put the breaker bar against the wheel assembly instead of the fender.

 

[BUCK]

If you haven't loosened the Pulley Bolt on the Pulley that swings on the Tensioner Arm Assembly just pulling the Pin might work for this "Crank Bolt Removal evolution" - If you've loosened that Pulley Bolt you'll have to Tension it & retighten Pulley Bolt- then jerk pin.

Just be DAMN careful where you brace the breaker bar - It spins fast if Plugs are out & that starter is strong - pull MPI fuse, etc, etc.

 

[dthquazi1]

i got a "dead" gear so i figured i can just put it in that and it will keep it from spinning and i will borrow and impact wrench.

 

[BUCK]

i got a "dead" gear so i figured i can just put it in that and it will keep it from spinning and i will borrow and impact wrench.

This method never worked for me on THESE cars, & obviously few other guys as you don't see that method mentioned much on THESE boards - The VC Couplings slip or something & the Crank moves even when it's in gear - REMEMBER - IF THE CRANK SPINS WITHOUT THE T/BELT ON YOU WILL BEND A FEW MORE VALVES - in addition to those already bent. If you want to try that it may be prudent to at least clamp a pair of those Tong-Vice grips onto the Crank Cog & bear it up against something to stop the Crank from spinning.

Here's a good ripout Thread...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=106696&goto=newpost

IMO most of these motors are in full blown "mid-life" crisis... just like mine was when I bought it for $600 - Here's a Thread that details the repairs needed to get yours thru the MLC...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99037&highlight=face

 

[dthquazi1]

when the car was running and i put it in this gear and let the clutch out it would kill the car. I tried to move the crank even a little bit and it wouldn't move at all. Wouldn't this be safe if using an impact wrench

I dont think i have bent any valves at this point in time though. I have not moved the crank but very little from tooth to tooth and that was by hand.

Also i cannot get the exhaust cam to get into time. I know about leaving it 1 tooth behind so when i put the tension on it will move 1 tooth to be in time. Well when i move it to where it should be it just moves back. Why is this?

 

[BUCK]

when the car was running and i put it in this gear and let the clutch out it would kill the car. I tried to move the crank even a little bit and it wouldn't move at all. Wouldn't this be safe if using an impact wrench

I would at least put some "Tong / Welders Vice Grips" on the Crank Cog & go for it - Being it probably is true you don't have bent valves - YET - even if you have to buy the damn Vice Grips I just can't sit here & bank on the Crank not spinning at 300 RPM when you put the damn Impact on it & smashing Valves being the T/belt isn't on - It's just not a good bet.

Also i cannot get the exhaust cam to get into time. I know about leaving it 1 tooth behind so when i put the tension on it will move 1 tooth to be in time. Well when i move it to where it should be it just moves back. Why is this?

Dude the Exhaust Cam will NOT look right till you are tensioned right - & watch the damn Crank because it will move too - With the Vice grips you shouldn't need a T/Belt - yet.