I have a couple install questions as well. I ordered my Devilsown kit the other week & haven't received it yet (so this may be covered when I get the kit) but I was wondering if my tank is trunk mounted, will the pump work equally the same as both a pusher or puller? Basically can I mount the pump far away from the tank in the engine compartment or should the pump be mounted in the rear closer to the tank? My other question is about how far the nozzle should be away from the TB? I think mine basically has to go into my aftermarket TB elbow as the next section of pipe has the BOV mounted just past the coupler that attaches to the TB elbow. I was thinking its probably not a good idea to place the nozzle before my HKS BOV, as it may damage it?
One other thing you mentioned above most tune to the 12-12.5 range with meth injection. I wanted to keep my tune on the safe side (bought the kit so I can run abit more boost on pump & add some timing back in) & didn't plan on leaning the air/fuel mixture. I was planning on running ~11 to 1, so I know obviously the richer air/fuel ratio won't net as much power as if I tuned it leaner but my question is with running this richer air/fuel ratio with a 50/50 meth/water mix, will it still give me the same performance as if I ran the same setup on straight pump? (with all other variables being the same) I was planning on having 2 tunes, the DD "safe" tune which is basically running a couple more psi, slightly leaner air/fuel & adding timing back in where it had to be removed to run my current 20 psi on pump. And then a "race/track" tune where I would run the leaner ~ 12 to 1 air/fuel & add more timing to the stock curve if possible, while running a few more psi as well.
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From what I have seen the nozzle should be after the BOV and before the elbow. I have seen this on about three different kits. I thinks for your other question you are looking at this too conservatively. The methanol will put your octane rating high enough to run 27psi and some sources say up to 30. If you are only bumping it up a couple I think it will hurt you more than help. I guess this matters on what your fuel and engine control look like too but my opinion is you are running a little too safe. Adam at Devotuning told that the octane rating should be as follows : 0-20psi=93 octane, 21-25=100 octane, 26-32=110 octane, 32+=C16. I know there are a few octane ratings inbetween but this is what is available in my area so that is what I used. This also my fluctuate a bit if you have a AEM EMS or Autronic or can tune DSM Link well.
I just got my kit with the 150psi black pump from Cooling Mist and have a question. I am mounting the pump in the trunk and using the stock bottle, but the boost switch is attached to the pump. Am I going to have to run a vacuum line all the way to the trunk? How is it going to stay attached to the boost switch since it's just a small plastic nipple? Any ideas where I should tap for the vacuum / boost to the switch?
It looks like all the other kits I see have a boost switch that you can mount where you want, as opposed to being attached to the pump.
Why not mount your pump in the engine bay. Having the reservior in the trunk is a good idea and has shown good results. But, as long as the pump is lower than the reservior (to issure the lines before pump ar primed always), why bother ?
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Well, I wasn't quite sure about that. The washer bottle is in the trunk and no one had Daren's question about the pump pulling as well as it pushed. Every installation I have seen on the 2g's involve mounting the pump next to the washer bottle. Also, there really isn't much room in under the hood. Mitsubishi has everything jammed in there pretty good.
True. I keep forgeting that you're a 2g. The bay seams a bit more cozy. FWIW, I've been running all my water injection setups w/ sureflo pumps and have the resevoir in the trunk/hatch and the pump in the cab or engine bay. I don't know whether these pumps push better than they pull. But I havn't personally noted a flow problem w/ long lines from the reservoir when the pump is below the reservoir.
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
I'm just not sure I would be able to get the pump lower than the washer bottle, since the bottle is so low in the car.
Does anyone see a problem running a vacuum line all the way to the trunk? I'm not even sure where I would tap. Normally I would go for the FPR, but I'm afraid that the long run might change the pressure going to the FPR and therefore change the way it increases with boost.
Send me an email with your addy and i can get some to you.
No, it needs to be ignition on, so its not always on, try using a cig lighter power wire is a good source in most cars.
daren_p
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The pump works better as a pushing that pulling so its best to keep the pump close to the tank as possable.
Before the BOV can cause the alcohol mix to vent when the bov opens. I would put it after it.
Its probley not going to be a noticable differnce when your running it that way.
spyderturbo007
With there setup you will need to run the vaccum hose to your trunk. Any vaccum line that is 1/8" or bigger willl do. We usta sell that style of boost sensor and you will be best off since its plastic to leave it in the trunk.
dsm-onster
as long as there is a good gravity feed it works good doing that.
spyderturbo007
Your not going to have a lag with a long boost/ vaccum line.
Well my kits here, looks like I hopefully be installing it this weekend. I think I'm going to use the factory resevoir & mount the pump in the spare tire well. I was thinking instead of running another power line all the way to the battery, I'll just tap into the power line for my fuel pump rewire. Does anyone see an issue with this? Its a 10 awg wire direct from the battery & has a 30 amp inline fuse I believe. I guess I could probably tap into the switched 12 volts source at my pump rewire as well?
Water/alky injection raises the effective octane in the combustion chamber to race gas levels. It slows the burn down to the rates of slow burnign race gas. It allows race gas timing and A/F ratio curves. And higher ("race gas level") boost. It allows one to get away w/ a smaller intercooler, but still achieve the same results as a much larger one. It is divine and should be addressed w/ reverance and any personification of such should be pictured w/ a halo .
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
UofACATS I would start off with an m5 nozzle. in notes put you need a 3,5,7 so i can get you the 3 nozzles closest to what your going to need for tunning. I would start off with a 50/50 mix.
Do you have a DSM specific install instructions for the progressive kit? I received "universal, base kit" instructions. I've notified the vendor who I purchased the unit from, but thought to ask the source directly as well.
I installed my DevilsOwn kit this weekend, and everything went just fine. (I did a few things differently as always just because , but the kit is very complete and well documented.
I also wanted to say thanks to Chance for the great customer service. I don't have any experience with this thing yet and I've got some tuning to do, but I would highly recommend DevilsOwn from everything I've seen.
Some installation notes: (I'll try to get some pics soon):
1. I installed the pump on the "empty" sheet metal just in front of the washer bottle...between the front side of the fender well and the bumper. I had to reposition the horn slightly, but otherwise it's a great fit and close to the bottle.
2. I also installed a float switch in the washer tank. I've got a self-made solenoid 2-stage boost controller system that let's me select between a flat 10 psi and my MBC. I'm running the switched solenoid power through the float switch, so if I'm out of fluid the car won't boost past 10 psi.
3. I mounted the controller on lower left of the instrument bezel with 3M molding tape.
i hear you guys running washer fluid or strait meth but what about strait alcohol or a mix ! whats the advantage of either ! going to buy one of your kits real soon........
i hear you guys running washer fluid or strait meth but what about strait alcohol or a mix ! whats the advantage of either ! going to buy one of your kits real soon........
Meth = methyl alcohol or methanol. Not quite the same as ethanol or other alcohols.
Washer fluid is usually a mix of methanol and water, -just a cheap source of a known premixed concentration.
The benefits of different concentrations of meth to water have already been discussed in this thread. Basically more water means more cooling capacity, while more meth means higher equivalent octane rating. Different concentrations will be ideal for different setups. While someone with a small intercooler/turbo may do better with more or less percentage of water, someone else with a different setup will have better results with a different concentration and/or different volume of mix injected.
Just gotta give you Guys props on your Kits, I work At Audio Tech In Lawton, Ok and Seen how nice these kits are, Since my Friend And Co worker Put one on his 91 Corvette, He was able to Gain Boost, from loosing fmic and replacing it with these kits. AND wow it runs like a raped ape! Nice kits I highly recomend These guys.
well i want to run the stock side mount that way people look at my car and see well no front mount it must be a 13.-14. sec car..... haha i have a single fogger nitrous kit that i plan on running with the alcohol kit !
i was in the harware store today and was thinking of homebrew octane boosters, well can you use denatured alcohol mix with water or strait ? i thought i have heard of that before......
Like Craig I also had a very positive experience with Devil's Own. Installed my kit last month. Customer service is absolutely top notch with Chance. He was extremely helpful over the phone. The kit is complete; I didn't have to purchase anything else to install it and make it work.
There are a couple words of advice I would pass on from my own experience.
The pressure switch was not completely accurate relative to the markings on it. This is how I tested it after the install was completed:
1) Disconnect tubing from check valve. Make sure you point the end in a safe direction soyou don't squirt the mixture on yourself or on your paint!
2) Turn ignition to ACC position.
3) Use boost leak tester to pressurize system and comare at what PSI the system activates compared to what the setting is on the pressure switch.
In my case, the system activated at 9 psi when the switch was set to 15. Maybe I just got one that was improperly calibrated and this could be atypical but I just thought I would share my own experience. I used this technique to adjust the dial on the pressure switch and set the exact point at which the system activates. Once you have it set to the desired level it will activate at exactly the same pressure each time.
Also the importance of mounting the pump lower than the fluid reservoir. Although the system will still work even if the pump is not gravity fed there will be a slight delay (approx 1 second in my experience) from time of activation to the moment that the injection at the nozzle end starts. I confirmed this by using the same method described above. Once with pump located slightly above the reservoir and the other with it lower. One second is not alot but considering how quickly boost rises I feel better knowing that the injection starts immediately when the set boost pressure is reached.
For any 2G guys looking to mount the pump next to the stock reservoir in the hatch it is a good idea to slight raise the reservoir. I did this by cutting 3 small blocks of wood to a height of 3" to mount under the 3 mounting points of the tank. For the 2 front ones I cut blocks to 3"x2"x1.5" and for the rear mounting location I cut one to 3"x1"x1". I used 4" long wood screws to secure them to the sheet metal as well as drilling holes in the bottom of the blocks (for the studs used to mount the tank) to fit into (you'll know what I mean if you look at it). Raising the tank 3" still allows you to use the press board spare tire cover but obviously you will not be able to carry the spare, at least not in it's original location.
Like Craig I also had a very positive experience with Devil's Own. Installed my kit last month. Customer service is absolutely top notch with Chance. He was extremely helpful over the phone. The kit is complete; I didn't have to purchase anything else to install it and make it work.
There are a couple words of advice I would pass on from my own experience.
The pressure switch was not completely accurate relative to the markings on it. This is how I tested it after the install was completed:
1) Disconnect tubing from check valve. Make sure you point the end in a safe direction soyou don't squirt the mixture on yourself or on your paint!
2) Turn ignition to ACC position.
3) Use boost leak tester to pressurize system and comare at what PSI the system activates compared to what the setting is on the pressure switch.
In my case, the system activated at 9 psi when the switch was set to 15. Maybe I just got one that was improperly calibrated and this could be atypical but I just thought I would share my own experience. I used this technique to adjust the dial on the pressure switch and set the exact point at which the system activates. Once you have it set to the desired level it will activate at exactly the same pressure each time.
I also tested my pressure switch before I installed the kit as well. Mine was tested with a certified pressure gauge standard from my work, so I know the gauge I'm testing it againt is right on (digital pressure gauge). When I tested mine, it was pretty much bang on what the dial said, well as close as you can read the switch dial scale, that is .
2. I also installed a float switch in the washer tank. I've got a self-made solenoid 2-stage boost controller system that let's me select between a flat 10 psi and my MBC. I'm running the switched solenoid power through the float switch, so if I'm out of fluid the car won't boost past 10 psi.
I've had a couple of requests for a better explanation of this, so here it is. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!
The boost controller:
I built a 2 stage manual/electronic boost controller, similar to what has been posted elsewhere. I used the stock BCS and Purge Cannister solenoids, along with my MBC. One of the solenoids is normally open, and one is normally closed. I tee'd the boost source (from J-pipe) into each solenoid. The output of the normally closed one goes to the MBC input. The output of the MBC goes through a checkvalve, and is then tee'd with the other (normally open solenoid) output and sent to the wastegate. The checkvalve is needed to prevent boost pressure from bleeding back through the MBC when low boost is selected.
How it works with the WAI system:
The solenoids are grounded to the chassis close to where they are mounted, and power comes from ignition power at the fuse box under the dash. Power is routed through a switch on my console (so I can select 10 psi or 20 psi... since I can't keep my foot out of it without a crutch ), and then through the float switch in the tank. So if I select high boost, the solenoids are energized and the boost is routed through the MBC. If the tank is low and the float switch is open however, no power gets to the solenoids and they stay de-energized...meaning that the normally open one is routing boost straight to the wastegate and bypassing the MBC.
With all that said, I'm planning on making a slight change to it. I'm going to route the solenoid power to the float switch first and then to the switch in the console. That way, as the fluid gets low and the float switch opens, the LED on the console switch will blink and/or go out, which will provide a better indication of low fluid. (For a little safety margin, I have the float switch installed so that it opens with about an inch of fluid still in the tank).
If anyone is curious, the 2 solenoids together are drawing 590ma when energized, which should be well below what the float switch can handle. I still need to verify it's rating though, since a hot or sparking wire near or inside a tank of alcohol probably wouldn't be a good thing. I used 16 ga primary wire for all electrical connections.
For added safety... you could probably install a flow switch inline with the others, although it may be a bit complicated due to the nature of how the juice is being delivered (I.E. it's not always flowing, it may be a pulsed or varying pressure, etc.) But, if it worked you would automatically cut boost for both low level and improper flow conditions, should a line get clogged or if the pump goes south on you. I know the controller flashes an LED on 1 or 2 error conditions...but that doesn't help if you're still at 20psi boost and the pistons are making funny little metalic sounds I'm still thinking on this one.
Hope this helps. I'll try to get some pics and diagrams together when I get a chance if anyone is interested.
EDIT:
Does anyone know where I can get a decent but inexpensive vaccum valve? Something that would route air from single input(s) to one of two output(s). The equivalent of a double-pole, single-throw switch... so that both the input and output could be switched simultaneously. The solenoids and checkvalve work ok, but a valve would be more efficient and simpler.
I've used valves and other air components on systems such as air suspensions, etc... but I'm looking for something much smaller and less expensive.
Thanks Chance... Not sure when, but I'll try to get over there in a few days.
Do you have any tips for us WAI newbies as far as selecting a nozzle size? I'm still trying to get my AFR right... I started out with the M3, and now have the M5 installed. Would I benefit from going up to the M7?
From what little testing I've done, it seems that the 50/50 mix works best for this car, although I still need a lot more experimenting.
I was thinking instead of running another power line all the way to the battery, I'll just tap into the power line for my fuel pump rewire. Does anyone see an issue with this? Its a 10 awg wire direct from the battery & has a 30 amp inline fuse I believe. I guess I could probably tap into the switched 12 volts source at my pump rewire as well?
It's probably way late, but for future searches I did exactly that. Don't know if it's necessary, but I used the provided fuse coming of the fuel pump wire. And just for clarification, (for the progressive system at least) the power-in to the DO system goes to the controller, not the pump. Then, the controller has a power-out that goes to the pump.
Anyway, I did it because: My LM-1 is powered by the ignition-on cigarette lighter, so I didn't want to power the controller there. The other ignition-on wires were a bit thin for my liking, and the power and ground to the pump were a good size larger than those available. I had a great power source with the fuel pump rewire that even includes the relay to provide power at start up, just what the system needs.
I have written a how-to install with a bunch of install pics. I'm waiting until I get "after" times at the track for the more complete and "actual" review of the system, but I like it thus far
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Thank you sir. Placed my order today.
), and then through the float switch in the tank. So if I select high boost, the solenoids are energized and the boost is routed through the MBC. If the tank is low and the float switch is open however, no power gets to the solenoids and they stay de-energized...meaning that the normally open one is routing boost straight to the wastegate and bypassing the MBC. 
