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Newbie Forum: Beginner/newbie/general DSM modification questions. First mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum. Probationary Members must limit their tech posts to this forum and sub-forums.

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Old 10-07-2012, 04:44 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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feeling of sadness bout my 420a


Ok, after searching threw bolt on mods, i see my eclipse has absolutly no hope of getting to where my stock z26 is. That headers, cai, and what not does nothing to help car. Well, not without a turbo anyway. I find this very hard to believe, but none the less, you guys know whats what with these machines. What i didnt find the answer to is, how is not giving your car more, smoother colder air not going to help it? Or goin with a header not goin to let the motor exhale better? The stock mani looks horrible for flow. A header flows much better. The better the engine can breath, the better it runs. So why not with these cars? And if they make no differnce, why do people make them and why do companies make them?


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Old 10-07-2012, 04:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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The 420 cars can make some power but require much more work. I will tell you what many other members will, sell it and buy a gsx/tsi lol. but for a start try exploring this section.

420A DSM Tech - DSM Forums

and also this page:

First Modifications

Good luck.

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Old 10-07-2012, 05:17 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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you can do the bolt ons on a 420a and have increases in power and performance, but the gains are not much and are comparable to a honduh single slammer. actually, i take that back... honda single slammers would murder a 420a if they each had the same tricks done to it. the car is TO HEAVY and comes with gearing that doesnt help the situation either.

when people say "theres no gain from doin bolt ons" they're just talkin S and bein slightly rude. theres gains to be made. but they truly are so small that for the cost of some of these parts for what your gonna get in return is a rip off for the money.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
And if they make no differnce, why do people make them and why do companies make them?
Because people buy them lol. Because they add some "bling", because they sound louder and louder means faster right? Or maybe because die hard 420a guys keep advising new 420 owners to buy them, which is sad.

Bolt on's don't necessarily add hp, they free it up by removing restrictions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmcurse View Post
when people say "theres no gain from doin bolt ons" they're just talkin S and bein slightly rude. theres gains to be made. but they truly are so small that for the cost of some of these parts for what your gonna get in return is a rip off for the money.
Pretty bold comment for having no proof of anything.

Here's a good read for you, are these the gains your talking about
http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage...hi_eclipse_rs/
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:36 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
What i didnt find the answer to is, how is not giving your car more, smoother colder air not going to help it?
It does help but its just not a very significant amount its only going to give you a few more HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
why do people make them and why do companies make them?
Because people will buy them. People will buy things for the look and the sound even if it hurts or does very little for performance.


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Old 10-07-2012, 05:37 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
Ok, after searching threw bolt on mods, i see my eclipse has absolutly no hope of getting to where my stock z26 is. That headers, cai, and what not does nothing to help car. Well, not without a turbo anyway. I find this very hard to believe, but none the less, you guys know whats what with these machines. What i didnt find the answer to is, how is not giving your car more, smoother colder air not going to help it? Or goin with a header not goin to let the motor exhale better? The stock mani looks horrible for flow. A header flows much better. The better the engine can breath, the better it runs. So why not with these cars? And if they make no differnce, why do people make them and why do companies make them?
lol. how much power were you expecting from a Cai and a header?

420a's are IMO perfect daily drivers.

No serious power gains will be made other than adding a Turbo or rebuilding the engine as an N/A with high compresion pistons. Suspension upgrades, LSD and a very good tune. Otherwise DD.


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Old 10-07-2012, 07:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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91stocker, you gotta be freakin kidding me man? earlier in this thread i bassically said that dollar per performance gain its a rip off to buy these parts. i basically said that for the money spent no real gain will be made. you then go out of your way to "quote" and look up some old ass import tuner info and then post the link also.

WELL THANKS CAUSE THAT EXACTLY PROVED THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. look at the bankroll spent. it says the cost of all these parts. TWELVE HUNDRED BUCKS for all that crap ant its peek increase in power was 4hp... FOUR LIL TINY STINKIN PONIES ALL FOR THE COST OF $1200.

the only way to make powr effectivley is to do a homemade turbo kit on a budget. buy crap like this is a wate of money. period. c'mon man, greddy header? it gave like 2hp gain and cost like 400bucks. was the gain worth the money? hell no! and import tuner sucks on reliable tech info any how. look they have a eclipse RS and they state for common swaps 4g63t. give me a break...
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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Id just be happt for 160 hp lol. Supposibly, my car has stage two crower. Yet to be determined. I need to get the car moving first which will be fixed the 20th. Then do then do the routine mantenance. That will let me know whether or not the idle is sorta lopey from the cams or not, right? I knpw i could look for the crower stamp, but dont feel like pulling the vavle cover first. Ive read all the people saying buy the gst or gsx, but dont want a turbo atm. As with manu noobs, i dont have the cash or wanna drive my backup vehicle because of fuel cost. I wasnt expecting major.stuff ojtout of it, jusy more passaze so to speak. And no, louder doesnt mean faster lol. I know that. If thats the case, every vehicle would be straight piped lol. Im not car illiterate if that helps anyone out, but is my first car with a real aftermarket. Ill read through those articles later. And will say ive read through alot of this forum before i made any post. I know what the cheap things do, and know what it takes to make real power. So fyi guys, not jusy another noob here lol. More later, bed time for now. Up early to get my tranny tomorrow. Thanks guys for all the help. Will say this is the friendlist forum ive ever been on. :-)

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Old 10-07-2012, 09:00 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
Id just be happt for 160 hp lol. Supposibly, my car has stage two crower. Yet to be determined. I need to get the car moving first which will be fixed the 20th. Then do then do the routine mantenance. That will let me know whether or not the idle is sorta lopey from the cams or not, right? I knpw i could look for the crower stamp, but dont feel like pulling the vavle cover first. Ive read all the people saying buy the gst or gsx, but dont want a turbo atm. As with manu noobs, i dont have the cash or wanna drive my backup vehicle because of fuel cost. I wasnt expecting major.stuff ojtout of it, jusy more passaze so to speak. And no, louder doesnt mean faster lol. I know that. If thats the case, every vehicle would be straight piped lol. Im not car illiterate if that helps anyone out, but is my first car with a real aftermarket. Ill read through those articles later. And will say ive read through alot of this forum before i made any post. I know what the cheap things do, and know what it takes to make real power. So fyi guys, not jusy another noob here lol. More later, bed time for now. Up early to get my tranny tomorrow. Thanks guys for all the help. Will say this is the friendlist forum ive ever been on. :-)
Turbo car doesn't mean bad gas mileage, if anything you keep your foot out of it and you get better gas mileage. Mine gets 35-37 mpg. Pshhhh....keep your foot out of it. Hahahah! Anyways....I traded my rs off for the gsx I have now, takes work but it can be done. I even traded for most of the parts that were on my car. But I have a better job now so they got replaced with newer better parts but they were still perfect parts.

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Old 10-07-2012, 09:23 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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I had a 5 speed RS in high school and I loved it. Got it as a 16th birthday present. Was super clean and a ton of fun to drive. Of course I thought it was fast back then but 420a or not I fell in love with DSM's because of it. When I went to college I sold my RS and picked up a 97 GSX and . I re fell in love with DSM's, but this time it was because of AWD, and more specifically AWD launches.

I did the bolt ons to my RS and noticed absolutely no difference. My advice would be to either keep/make your current RS clean and enjoy it for what it is. A good looking and reliable DD.
Or sell it and buy an AWD DSM. GST's are awesome and all, but AWD is sooooooooo much better!


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Old 10-08-2012, 05:38 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Ok, what will an.underdrive pulley add for me? Also,what are the free mods, what does that mean?

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Old 10-08-2012, 05:47 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
Ok, what will an.underdrive pulley add for me? Also,what are the free mods, what does that mean?
Underdrive pulleys will free a up a few ponies, nothing more. Free mods are cheap and easy mods to factory parts that are obviously restricting. However, the only "free mods" page for DSM's I know of (VFAQ.com) only pertains to turbo DSM's.


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Old 10-08-2012, 06:21 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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I read the post about the 4hp. Gives me hope actually. 1200 just in i,e,h is ubsurd. That in reality could be had for 400 if i shop around. Something like that would eventually pay for itself in mpg increase. Theroetically anyways...

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_eclipse View Post
I read the post about the 4hp. Gives me hope actually. 1200 just in i,e,h is ubsurd. That in reality could be had for 400 if i shop around. Something like that would eventually pay for itself in mpg increase. Theroetically anyways...
Negative. It may actually hurt mpgs. Things that free up potential horsepower, i.e. roller rockers, which lowers rotational friction, or lightweight flywheels, which lighten rotational mass, will help mpgs. Things that allow the engine to take in more ai, not so much. More air in = more gas in.

If you really want more power out of the 420a platform, n/a, and arent on too small a budget, consider rebuilding the engine using extremely lightweight rotational parts, titanium head component, and build it to turn 12,000 rpms with 11:1 CR lol
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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ebay parts, matrix air filter wiht a pace setter header. i would never spend money onthe name brand parts for that engin. like i said earlier, the dollar per performance gain aint really worth the money for 90% of the NA parts that are offered for the 420a platform. the only way to effectivley make any real power is to peice together a homemade turbo kit your self
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:42 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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This is how I see it,
If you want big numbers find something with a 4g in it.
keep in mind if you get a gst you're still fwd and major power would only really be for Shits and giggles.
I can honestly form experience tell you that, for the average person the 420a is not the best platform to make cheap power (even if you spend a fortune you're still limited by design differences in the two platforms).

If you just want a car to show off to others, it doesn't seem very rewarding personally, I would rather have something I am proud to say had a role in creating rather than try and keep up with trends and what others think.

So just to wrap up.
No the 420a is not a power hungry beast like the 4g.
The "bang for buck" with the 4g is more rewarding in terms of power gains.
Anything can be done it's just a matter of how much time and money you want to put into it.
......oh and if you want mpgs get a hybrid.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:51 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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Sorry guys.. if i didnt have a budget id have a turbo something..

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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Nobody is saying you have to go get a turbo anything, we just hope you understand the trade-offs in what you want.
Hopefully you see most of the comments were not meant to attack you or make you feel like there is a right or wrong answer to this. At the end of the day, if you really want, you will make the best decision for what you want.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:05 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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Lots of crap information throughout this thread. But to help you out: Get a pace setter header like mentioned earlier. A real cai that puts the filter in the opening on the front bumper(like an Injen)/can get used. And the exhaust isn't going to do much, I would suggest just getting a better flowing muffler. If you look around and shop some used parts, all those can be had for cheap. And YES, doing those mods will help your mpg's.
No, your not going to be the fastest car on the street, but your also not invested like those who have the gst/gsx's.

And the point of getting an underdrive pulley isn't necessarily about the power gains as much as it helps get through the rpms to put you in the power band faster.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:26 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagged420a View Post
Lots of crap information throughout this thread. But to help you out: Get a pace setter header like mentioned earlier. A real cai that puts the filter in the opening on the front bumper(like an Injen)/can get used. And the exhaust isn't going to do much, I would suggest just getting a better flowing muffler. If you look around and shop some used parts, all those can be had for cheap. And YES, doing those mods will help your mpg's.
No, your not going to be the fastest car on the street, but your also not invested like those who have the gst/gsx's.

And the point of getting an underdrive pulley isn't necessarily about the power gains as much as it helps get through the rpms to put you in the power band faster.
But why bother spending all that money just for 5hp if you're lucky. Just enjoy
having a reliable car.

And how exactly would he not be invested like those who own GST/GSX's? What exactly does that even mean? My 100% stock talon is much faster and I have exactly zero dollars invested in it.


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