[RESOLVED] Battle!...Honda or 2g eclipse

[phantom_19]

From my racing experience the B16 DOHC vtec Hondas are faster than my 4g63 n/t. I am faster than the SOHC versions though. B18+ engines I am no match however.

[91stocker]

Originally Posted by phantom_19

From my racing experience the B16 DOHC vtec Hondas are faster than my 4g63 n/t.

Well of course they are going to be. A high compression 185hp motor in a 2700lb car with aggressive gearing vs 160hp in a 3300lb car.

But a stock turbo dsm can make 300whp with only very minor effort. Pair that power with awd and there wont be many hondas that can hang.

The fastest honda i've ever seen in person was at dsm shootout last year lol. And that ran a 12.8. Theres even a honda club that hangs at the local track occasionally and the fastest of their group runs high 13's, with a handful of turbo hondas running 14's. But i figure its about the same as modded gst's running 14's and 15's.

[ofgofg]

Its good to not have to worry about honduhs.

[TunaTalon]

Tell me again what the RESOLVED tag means on a thread.

[TSIturbo91]

Originally Posted by TunaTalon

Tell me again what the RESOLVED tag means on a thread.

It means the problem has been fixed or the question has been answered. And it need not be looked at to contribute to because the OP is all set. Also let's people searching know there is an answer to the said problem or question.

[mickey]

^ true

[MikeSD]

how exactly has this been "resolved"?

[spyderdrifter]

I really don't think it has been "resolved". The DSM/honda war will always wage on, but in the end, I still say DSMs are better.

[DSMnOOb00]

Lock it up!!

[WES_393]

To reply to earlier comments, you cant disregard the k swap just because its newer. The op asked the comparison between an NA honda and the 420a. He never specified which platform or which engine, just NA. And saying a modded 4g63 isn't a 4g63 is pretty far out there.

[AK Maniak]

Originally Posted by WES_393

To reply to earlier comments, you cant disregard the k swap just because its newer. The op asked the comparrison between an NA honda and the 420a. He never specified which one. And saying a modded 4g63 isn't a 4g63 is pretty far out there.

Ya but at te same time comparing a swapped Honda kind of throws all stipulations out the window. So an NA Honda vs a boosted 420a? Still a 420a and can be done for about the same price.

[WES_393]

Originally Posted by AK Maniak

Ya but at te same time comparing a swapped Honda kind of throws all stipulations out the window. So an NA Honda vs a boosted 420a? Still a 420a and can be done for about the same price.

I don't see how though. It's not like it's an LS1 swap, it's still a Honda engine. Even if you left the K20 in it's original platform, it would still give a 420a DSM a hard time. The question was NA Honda vs 420a. That means any Honda, regardless of swap, so long as it's naturally aspirated. But even if we stray from engine swaps, the I fear a fairly modded B18 in an Integra would still pull on a 420a. It's just the sad truth.

Even $ for $ you will get more form a Honda than a 420a. NA or boosted. The aftermarket support for Honda's is immense compared to that for the 420a. And parts are often cheaper. Supply and demand is a funny thing.

[SPYDERGSTTUNER]

1+! Swap it out!

[[QUOTE] In the meantime you should turbo swap your 420A for a 6 Bolt! [/;QUOTE]

Do either one of you guys know what your telling the OP by saying this??? His car is a 420a powered fat neon (no offense) and a 6 or a 7 bolt swap is damn near impossible unless you have some mad Fab,mechanical, and electrical skills. Everyone is talking about Honda guys doing motor swaps but think how much easier is for them to do it with certain motors unlike a n/t to turbo on dsms(unless 1g of course). Is like telling a civic owner to swap his b16 for a s2k motor, it just ain't happening.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by WES_393

To reply to earlier comments, you cant disregard the k swap just because its newer. The op asked the comparison between an NA honda and the 420a. He never specified which platform or which engine, just NA. And saying a modded 4g63 isn't a 4g63 is pretty far out there.

This is exactly how i feel. The original question was basically asking which is better na to na. That means that with the honda there is any possibility of engine that you can swap in, any of them faster than a n/a 420a. This is 2012, the engines are available to swap in, it isn't 1997 any more. Some people are trying to answer the question all while putting their restrictions and theory on it. A civic with even a basic b18 ls swap (500-800 bucks for engine and transmission) will wax every n/a 420a out there. It's more about looks at this point, if you like the look of a 2g eclipse than you will like the 2g, if you like the look of the honda than you will want a honda. One isn't better than the other because it is a Mitsubishi, or because it is a honda. The reason that most of these honda's have such a bad name is because all your ricers with fart can's on d15's, park benches on the trunk, nasty body kits, tow hooks, stickers and all that. It has nothing to do with the car itself or the engines.

[Dsmkauai]

Supply and demand for Hondas = eBay lol. We are swarmed with Hondus here as well and it's pretty funny to see and here all the crap they go thru and do just to pull 12's, but everyone's gotta have some bad era's in there life lol. Dsm for life here only honda I got is my generator and that's the way it will stay. The fastest Honda on Kauai ran 11.6ish with nos and 13.5ish without lol, and I think 2-3 passes in on the nos they blew up.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by Dsmkauai

Supply and demand for Hondas = eBay lol. We are swarmed with Hondus here as well and it's pretty funny to see and here all the crap they go thru and do just to pull 12's, but everyone's gotta have some bad era's in there life lol. Dsm for life here only honda I got is my generator and that's the way it will stay. The fastest Honda on Kauai ran 11.6ish with nos and 13.5ish without lol, and I think 2-3 passes in on the nos they blew up.

Do you realize that guys have ran 9's and 10's on all motor honda's?

[AK Maniak]

Yes Hondas have potential. But who really cares if they are better than a 420a. It's not like a 420a is a DSM anyways.

[DSM1G90]

..a slightly modified Dodge NEON motor for the 2G NT Eclipse .. is all you really have in stock form.

A motor that was never designed to anything else but get the vehicle down the road in an orderly fashion.

Honda motors have always had some "race car" instinct built into them - why they can be a lot more potent when the right applications were added.

Even the little mid 70's Civics with their 1.2L SOHC motors ... and a stock two stage carb sitting on top of the intake manifold.

When you manually activated that 2nd stage of that carb at a certain RPM or torque range, that little motor suddenly woke up real bad.

[4g63tc]

There was a Local all motor K20 civic hatch, no Nos, 11 second car, and yes it was daily driven.
IN March 2012, at Sacramento raceway.
Turbo heads up
9.930 Civic @ 151 mph
10.61 Evo @ 141.8 mph

Heads Up all motor
11.415 Civic @121.22
11.661 Civic @115.15

out of the top 8 first and second finishes 6 were from the honda camp, the other two? one was an evo, and the other a galant.

so to dismiss Hondas is ridiculous.

And as for Aftermarket support, when's the last time you were able to buy adjustable, upper and lower control arms from reputable manufacturers for less than 300 bucks? and find any Oem part on Amazon.

Dsm's are a wonderful Platform but they're getting dated, they're just not relevant anymore. That's what aftermarket support looks for. Hondas are everywhere. there are Morons in every car group just like fanboys no getting around it.

[Ozone302]

Yeah I'd rather have a Honda. And I HATE Hondas. I just think a 420a is retarded personally unless you want a beater car. Hondas can be quick fairly easily. I knew a guy with a crappy looking, maybe mid 90's, 4 door civic with an h22. That thing was quick! It ran high 12's all day and it was a stock motor with stock exhaust. It was an awesome sleeper. My friend has a 5 speed b18b non vtec integra. It's pretty decent for what it is. He dynoed at 156whp and ran a 15.4 in the quarter mile which really isn't that bad considering it's stock with just a header, catback, and a cold air intake.

[Dsmkauai]

Yes Bryan I know what Hondas have run still doesn't mean I want one lol. I don't know for us dsmer's here on Kauai all 4-5 of us that actually are doing things with them. It's more of a pride thing I guess there are so many riced out, played out Hondas and celicas out here it's a joke. Dont get me wrong there are a select few who actually know what there JDM parts are for and not just flashing names of parts off, and I respect them. But here there's not to much pride in builds it's all about having a loud exhaust and flashy rims and body kits. It's funny I can tell you exactly which of my friends is coming over just by hearing there car comig down the road lol. Mainly because there the only ones that sound good haha the rest are well Honda's. The first thing I here out of everyone's mouths when they ask what turbo is oh is it a t3/t4 :/ lol. But anyway I'm not bashing Honda's I used to have a 87 crx. That thing was so much fun mainly because it was so small and light and the goal was to beat the crap outta it and even when I did that thing just kept going lol. But like I said not for me I don't wanna blend in I wanna stand out. And having a dsm here is exactly what happens. There are so few dsm's here that I'm basically the only one on the road and that's the best. And even when I'm not I'm happy because I know who's in the other one and that he knows his stuff. Next weekend marks the greatest day in Kauai racing history lol. There will be a total of 4 maybe 5 mitsu's at the track lol instead of lonely me. We will have hopefully a 1g awd, 2g awd, a few evos and myself. But anyway I'm rambling now lol sorry. It doesn't really matte who's faster but more which car you wanna be in, how you drive it and most important if you know anything that your talking about.

[porkchop]

I have owned a number of Hondas, but they were just daily drivers that were great on gas. Some of them looked fast, but they weren't. I have owned a number of DSM's and still do to this day. I only buy the 4g63 and have nothing to do with the 420a. The 4g63 has proven to be a great platform from which to start and build exceptional performance out of. Sure there are some 420a's that are turboed and run good. There are also Hondas out there that run quick, but the comparison to 4g63's (or the ratio) is significantly different.
What it boils down to, as many have said, is that there will always be arguing on what car is better,faster, and on and on. Build what you like and race what or who you want to. Generalizing produces inaccurate results as we all know, so get out there and see who can beat who and that will produce some facts.
Just my 2 psi.

[warhurst13]

Originally Posted by spyderdrifter

AMEN!!!

In addition to what I said earlier, all those DSM inspired demotivational pictures, that most have no doubt seen, do have some truth to them. DSMs weed out the weak. Anyone can build a civic or integra be cause they're so easy to build, cheap to build, and everyones got one so the info is bountiful on how to do it. That's not the case with our DSMs. It takes patience, determination, and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to have a DSM rise above the others, but it's a much more satisfying feeling in the end, to be able to say you built what most could only dream of building.

you my friend, should be president

[EclipseOwner95]

A lot of Honda hate in here, pretty sad. Everyone has their opinions, likes and dislikes but I'll tell you one thing. My DD is an 09 Civic SI sedan, and I absolutely love it, decent power out of the box, 30mpg etc etc.

By far the best car I've ever owned was my old 98' EK Hatch. Paid $1000 for it not running, bought a $500 LS engine, home-brew 14b turbo kit from left over DSM parts, DSM Sidemount, 450's, manifold etc etc. (Total investment under $400)

Went to the track and went 13.2 @110, for a grand total of about $2K. Not to mention all of the other benefits of a Honda, superior fuel economy, fun factor, ease of repair/modification, abundance of cheap parts. I'm sure you could do similar numbers in a DSM for around that price as well, but its still apples to oranges. Everything about it I liked more than my DSM, but I was never going "max power" Which the DSM still holds the crown and probably always will, which is the reason I still have one.

And that's with all OLD tech. You can easily get an accord K24 and a K20 head for under $2000 , buy basic swap requirement stuff, throw it in an EG/EK and have a 100% DD 110-115mph car that still gets 30mpg and relatively maintenance free.

But to just toss them out as crap is hilarious, to tell you the truth my 420A car was probably my least favorite vehicle ever.

[H4G64T]

There are fast Hondas and there are fast DSMs. Most of the people in this thread aren't even fast and are just making stupid posts.

You should just worry about your own cars. If when you go to the track and line up against a Honda, should you beat him, don't rub it in. Should he beat you, congratulate him on building a fine machine.

Somewhere out there, there is a Honda that can smoke you, and unless your name is Rau or Shep, you shouldn't be so confident against every Honda you see.

[Ozone302]

Originally Posted by H4G64T

There are fast Hondas and there are fast DSMs. Most of the people in this thread aren't even fast and are just making stupid posts.

You should just worry about your own cars. If when you go to the track and line up against a Honda, should you beat him, don't rub it in. Should he beat you, congratulate him on building a fine machine.

Somewhere out there, there is a Honda that can smoke you, and unless your name is Rau or Shep, you shouldn't be so confident against every Honda you see.

Exactly. A fast car is a fast car regardless of what brand it is. The only reason people hate on Hondas is because they're the most riced out vehicle on the planet. But that doesn't mean that there aren't well built ones out there. Because there is.

[KevinRR]

Originally Posted by H4G64T

There are fast Hondas and there are fast DSMs. Most of the people in this thread aren't even fast and are just making stupid posts.

You should just worry about your own cars. If when you go to the track and line up against a Honda, should you beat him, don't rub it in. Should he beat you, congratulate him on building a fine machine.

Somewhere out there, there is a Honda that can smoke you, and unless your name is Rau or Shep, you shouldn't be so confident against every Honda you see.

+ 1 on this a fast car is a fast car!

Originally Posted by spyderdrifter

Anyone can build a civic or integra be cause they're so easy to build, cheap to build, and everyones got one so the info is bountiful on how to do it. That's not the case with our DSMs. It takes patience, determination, and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to have a DSM rise above the others, but it's a much more satisfying feeling in the end, to be able to say you built what most could only dream of building.

You mean anyone with knowledge and money can build a fast car, it doesn't matter if it a Honda or DSM.

[DSMnOOb00]

A side note everyone seems to always forget, the term "riced out" can apply to any car!!!... I know when i got my first DSM (RS) I bought a autozone exhaust, the neon lights and even a type-r seat covers with the matching air freshener, and I was so happy to have them. I felt proud! That was a long time ago!

It's sad how people "hate" Hondas and the people that drive them. In all honesty I feel it's a sort of a form of racism... Sad sad sad...

[Ozone302]

Originally Posted by DSMnOOb00

A side note everyone seems to always forget, the term "riced out" can apply to any car!!!... I know when i got my first DSM (RS) I bought a autozone exhaust, the neon lights and even a type-r seat covers with the matching air freshener, and I was so happy to have them. I felt proud! That was a long time ago!

It's sad how people "hate" Hondas and the people that drive them. In all honesty I feel it's a sort of a form of racism... Sad sad sad...

Because most people that drive Hondas rice them out. Most cars that are riced are Hondas. That's just how the cookie crumbles.