Welcome to DSMtuners - the largest Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, 4G63t and 420A DSM performance resource on the web



















Login



Go Back   DSMtuners > DSM Forums > General > Newbie Forum
Welcome to DSMtuners - the largest Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, 4G63t and 420A DSM performance resource
You are browsing the site as a GUEST. Please login (or register) and gain the ability to post on our site and interact with other DSMers. You also get to browse the site with fewer advertisements. It is FREE to join!

Newbie Forum: Beginner/newbie/general DSM modification questions. First mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum. Probationary Members must limit their tech posts to this forum and sub-forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack   Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2010, 07:52 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #21 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

Strm Trpr's Avatar
Registered: Jan 2004
Tech Posts: 1,484
Photos: 4
Classifieds Rating: 5
Reputation: Strm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthyStrm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthyStrm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthy
.410" is taking the rocker ratio of ~1.7 into consideration.
The .239" * 1.7 = .406"



____________________________
-Chris-
-97 GSX-
-GReddy 18g-
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 12:09 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #22 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

95burgundyesi's Avatar
Registered: Feb 2006
Tech Posts: 598
Classifieds Rating: 7
Reputation: 95burgundyesi is more helpful than not
Send a message via AIM to 95burgundyesi
O I get it now, haha I will admit I don't understand all of this. But I get where that number came from. Looks like the evo spring will work perfect to rev out the fp2 cams, it held .410 and fp2s are .406. Thats strm trpr, and everyone else I kinda understand things now.

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 09:07 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #23 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
GSC Power-Division Beehive Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainer and Chromoly spring seats (All 4g63)


Seat pressure:
Seat at 1.46"= 95 pounds
.300"= 200 pounds
.400"= 250 pounds
CoilBind .560"

GSC Power-Division 4G63T EVO 1-9 Stage 3 Beehive Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainer Valvetrain Kit - Modern Automotive Performance

this makes me wonder what what the diffrence is beteen these spring and the GSC springs in the first post... I see the installed height differs but could it be the same spring, just checked at diffrent points?

Last edited by BogusSVO; 12-03-2012 at 07:46 AM.

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 08:29 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #24 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

Redwidow's Avatar
Registered: Aug 2008
Tech Posts: 366
Photos: 20
Classifieds Rating: 2
Reputation: Redwidow is pretty helpful and trustworthy
Send a message via AIM to Redwidow Send a message via Skype™ to Redwidow
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95blackGsTurbo View Post
Thiefed from DSMTalk

Some general data used in the test to "standardize" the results a bit.

Installed height general numbers (1.560) for comparison; this includes the mitsu locator given at an average value of 40.

.410 will be used for cam lift.

As follows;
DSM
Coil Bind
1.115
60
1.175 SAFE

1.560 = 68lbs
.030
1.530 = 72lbs
.410 LIFT
1.120 = 192lbs

But we're under where we need to be. When performing this last squeeze there was no daylight left. ABORT ABORT! DSM spring is KO'd. Even if we pull the shim its still over.


EVO
Coil Bind
1.035
60
1.095 SAFE

Installed height general numbers (1.560) for comparison; this includes the mitsu locator given at an average value of 40.

1.560 = 65lbs
.030 shim
1.530 = 72lbs
.410 will be used to simulate cam lift
1.120 = 154lbs

In referance to our original coil bind number, we can see we still have room on the Evo spring. Showing the benefits of the semi-beehive springs and its much looser coils. It would take a 60 thou shim to max this scenario out.

MANLEY
Coil Bind
.925
60
.985 SAFE

1.560 = 78lbs
.030 shim
1.530 = 88lbs
.410
1.120 = 204lbs

As we can see here there obviously isn't going to be any problems in sight.
This is why you pay $2XX for springs and retainers.


NOW... lets see what these things weigh.

DSM
Spring: 56.3g
Retainer: 13.7g

Evo
Spring: 39g
Retainer: 3.9g !!! HOLY ####!

Manley
Spring: 42.7g
Retainer: 8.9g

Correct me if I am wrong on understanding this. Comparing the DSM springs to the EVO springs, The Evo Springs have lower coil bind specs, due to the semi bee hive construction, But the DSM springs are actually stronger? Is there any sense in changing to EVO valve springs, other than the coil bind being at a lower height, and that they are way lighter?


____________________________
Andy - '91 TSI AWD
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 09:58 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #25 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

Strm Trpr's Avatar
Registered: Jan 2004
Tech Posts: 1,484
Photos: 4
Classifieds Rating: 5
Reputation: Strm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthyStrm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthyStrm Trpr is extremely helpful and trustworthy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwidow View Post
Correct me if I am wrong on understanding this. Comparing the DSM springs to the EVO springs, The Evo Springs have lower coil bind specs, due to the semi bee hive construction, But the DSM springs are actually stronger? Is there any sense in changing to EVO valve springs, other than the coil bind being at a lower height, and that they are way lighter?
I've read that the reason Evo Springs are lighter is because the upper portion of the spring is lighter as well as the Alumium Retainer vs the heavier cylindrical spring and steel DSM Retainer.

The lighter the reciprocating weight the spring has to control, the lighter the spring can be...


____________________________
-Chris-
-97 GSX-
-GReddy 18g-
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 06:23 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #26 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

91mitsuman's Avatar
Registered: Oct 2005
Tech Posts: 70
Classifieds Rating: 18
Reputation: 91mitsuman is an unknown
Does anyone know if I will be ok using .030 shimmed Crower springs with FP2x cams. Its all bolted in but will still be awhile till its running. So if I need to change something I can.

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 07:11 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #27 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

turbo_rookie's Avatar
Registered: Mar 2011
Tech Posts: 54
Photos: 5
Classifieds Rating: 2
Reputation: turbo_rookie is an unknown
can i run dks 272's with evo 8 valve springs safely in my 1g 6bolt without having to worry about issues?
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 08:02 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #28 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

ckrell's Avatar
Car: 1972 240z /4g63
Registered: Sep 2010
Tech Posts: 79
Photos: 18
Classifieds Rating: 1
Reputation: ckrell is more helpful than not
To OP, I belive to get 95# @ seat with BC's installed needs to be 1.500"?
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 03:43 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #29 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckrell View Post
To OP, I belive to get 95# @ seat with BC's installed needs to be 1.500"?
Yes it is, when I did the org post, I did not have the sheet, and pulled that info from the website.

I just talked to both Brain and Dustin at BC, they are going to fix the info on the website.

I Have the BC Spec sheet in front of me, and the correct info is 95 lbs at 1.500

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 04:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #30 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
From
Are these Manley Valve Springs?? Pics inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by fun kart kid View Post
I don't know if u guys know this or not but there are only a few company's that make valve springs and a lot of reboxers

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by silicosys4 View Post
Really? Then why do they advertise spring rates, and installed height, and why are those advertised spring rates and installed heights different between each manufacturer?

You might be right for OEM and OEM replacement springs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
No he is right, there is only about 3 or 4 companies that make springs ( Think Kiggley makes them?) But you can call one of the companies and give them the specs you want and they will make them if you buy enough of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silicosys4 View Post
So does that mean that Kiggly's beehives are the same as GSC's, as FP's, etc...and pricing is all just something to make us feel special for spending $400 instead of $300? Kiggly's are pretty much acknowledged as being the cats meow for high lift/aggressive ramp cams....So is that all just B.S., and they are no better than other cheaper beehives, or by the same manufacturer as FP or GSC, but with different manufactured specs? Strange that Kiggly could justify that extra $150 for their beehives simply because their requested specs are different than say, GSC...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
The price will be based on how many they buy in there lot.

Look at the specs between ferrea and kiggly

Read post # 1 and #10
4G63T Valve spring Info

Specs for both are at the bottom of post #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by silicosys4 View Post
Sorry Bogus,
Now I'm more confused... I might not be reading those right, but to me the ferrea's and Kiggly's seem to be two different beehive springs, with two different seat pressures and two different spring rates....are you saying that Ferrea and Kiggly beehives are both manufactured by the same entity, and the fact that Kiggly buys smaller lots accounts for their higher price? What then accounts for the differences in performance? Is that just the differences in preferred specs that Ferrea wanted vs what Kiggly wanted?
Marketing antics...sheesh.
No I am not saying that ferrea and kiggly springs come from the same plant.

The diffrence is Kiggley springs were (probley)designed with there cams in mind, and there build theroy.
Where Ferrea has to design a spring that will work with about any cam.
Also I feel that Ferrea has a R&D department and came up with the specs they use.

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 08:34 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #31 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

ALBurgundy's Avatar
Registered: Oct 2010
Tech Posts: 72
Classifieds Rating: 4
Reputation: ALBurgundy is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_rookie View Post
can i run dks 272's with evo 8 valve springs safely in my 1g 6bolt without having to worry about issues?
I would also like to know the answer to this

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 08:41 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #32 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 08:58 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #33 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

greekgodchaos's Avatar
Registered: Jul 2007
Tech Posts: 247
Photos: 72
Classifieds Rating: 22
Reputation: greekgodchaos is an unknown
I was about to create a new thread for this, but here is my question;

I bought a set of Evo 8 Valve springs and retainers, and then I bought a set of DSM Ferra Valve Locks from Extremepsi under the assumption that they would work with the Evo 8 retainers...now I installed 12 of them already, but the tops of the valve stems do not sit flush with the retainer...have I made a $75 mistake? And if so, do I need to get Evo 8 Valve Locks instead?


____________________________
PM Me about Replica Eclipse GSX/GSR-4 Decals!
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 09:05 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #34 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 09:18 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #35 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

greekgodchaos's Avatar
Registered: Jul 2007
Tech Posts: 247
Photos: 72
Classifieds Rating: 22
Reputation: greekgodchaos is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock
A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?


____________________________
PM Me about Replica Eclipse GSX/GSR-4 Decals!
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 09:22 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #36 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekgodchaos View Post
A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?
A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed

B) yes, bead up, thin taper towards the head of the valve

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 09:47 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #37 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

greekgodchaos's Avatar
Registered: Jul 2007
Tech Posts: 247
Photos: 72
Classifieds Rating: 22
Reputation: greekgodchaos is an unknown
Awesome I'll check the height on the stem extrusion once I get back home and report back on my findings. Thanks a bunch, Bogus!


____________________________
PM Me about Replica Eclipse GSX/GSR-4 Decals!
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 11:01 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #38 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

ALBurgundy's Avatar
Registered: Oct 2010
Tech Posts: 72
Classifieds Rating: 4
Reputation: ALBurgundy is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!
So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 11:18 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #39 (permalink)
DSM Wiseman
 

BogusSVO's Avatar
Car: 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
Registered: Jul 2009
Tech Posts: 5,224
Classifieds Rating: 17
Reputation: You can trust this leader of the site
Send a message via Yahoo to BogusSVO
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBurgundy View Post
So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs
If you go back and read post #19, you can see where someone was doing a cam lift test.

The EVO spring has about the same pressures as a good stock 4g spring, but can handle more lift.

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 12:54 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #40 (permalink)
Proven Member
 

greekgodchaos's Avatar
Registered: Jul 2007
Tech Posts: 247
Photos: 72
Classifieds Rating: 22
Reputation: greekgodchaos is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed

Alright well the extrusions measures on an average of 0.149

Now about that gap I mentioned earlier, I forgot to take pictures so Ill post them up tomorrow as soon as I can, but should there be a gap between the locks when installed? Like if you look directly down at them, they do not join to make a full 360*, maybe 350* with a 10* gap, is this normal?


____________________________
PM Me about Replica Eclipse GSX/GSR-4 Decals!
View photos of this member's car 

mark post as helpful recommend reputation points    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

 

» Recent DSM Photo
» Current Poll
How many times have you been to the Shootout?
1 - 39.86%
167 Votes
2-5 - 41.77%
175 Votes
6-10 - 10.50%
44 Votes
11-15 - 3.10%
13 Votes
16-20 - 4.77%
20 Votes
Total Votes: 419
You may not vote on this poll.
» Online Users: 612
161 members and 451 guests
Most users ever online was 1,704, 03-17-2008 at 09:11 PM.
DSMtuners Main Sections
DSM Forums
DSM Regional Forums
DSM Builds/Journals
DSM Articles
DSM Tech Guides
DSM Upgrade Paths
DSM Parts Reviews
DSM Vendor Reviews

DSM Classifieds
DSM Parts Guides
DSM Photos
DSM Videos
DSM Timeslips
DSM Dyno Sheets
Shirts & Apparel
DSMtuners Decals

Advertising Info
Our Sponsors
Site Rules
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
Site FAQ
About Us
Contact Us

© 2014 DSMtuners.com - All Rights Reserved

DSMtuners is not affiliated with Diamond Star Motors. The Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, Mitsubishi Galant VR-4, and associated logos are trademarks of Diamond Star Motors, Mitsubishi Motors, and Chrysler Corporation. No, we do not hand out car sponsorships.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0