4G63T Valve spring Info

[ALBurgundy]

Originally Posted by turbo_rookie

can i run dks 272's with evo 8 valve springs safely in my 1g 6bolt without having to worry about issues?

I would also like to know the answer to this

[BogusSVO]

From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!

[greekgodchaos]

I was about to create a new thread for this, but here is my question;

I bought a set of Evo 8 Valve springs and retainers, and then I bought a set of DSM Ferra Valve Locks from Extremepsi under the assumption that they would work with the Evo 8 retainers...now I installed 12 of them already, but the tops of the valve stems do not sit flush with the retainer...have I made a $75 mistake? And if so, do I need to get Evo 8 Valve Locks instead?

[BogusSVO]

you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock

[greekgodchaos]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock

A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?

[BogusSVO]

Originally Posted by greekgodchaos

A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?

A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed

B) yes, bead up, thin taper towards the head of the valve

[greekgodchaos]

Awesome I'll check the height on the stem extrusion once I get back home and report back on my findings. Thanks a bunch, Bogus!

[ALBurgundy]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!

So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs

[BogusSVO]

Originally Posted by ALBurgundy

So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs

If you go back and read post #19, you can see where someone was doing a cam lift test.

The EVO spring has about the same pressures as a good stock 4g spring, but can handle more lift.

[greekgodchaos]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed

Alright well the extrusions measures on an average of 0.149

Now about that gap I mentioned earlier, I forgot to take pictures so Ill post them up tomorrow as soon as I can, but should there be a gap between the locks when installed? Like if you look directly down at them, they do not join to make a full 360*, maybe 350* with a 10* gap, is this normal?

[BogusSVO]

Yes thats common, I can not recall a head that the locks touch on both sides

[greekgodchaos]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

Yes thats common, I can not recall a head that the locks touch on both sides

You sir have just made my day! Now if I could only find where one of my exhaust hangers vanished to...I seriously think there is a wormhole in my garage

[BogusSVO]

Manley single spring Part # MAN-22125-16

Manley Performance Sport Compact Valve Springs

- Wound from super clean alloy 3
- Designed to handle aftermarket camshafts
- Revs up to 10,000 RPM with Manley titanium retainers

Part # 22125-16
Set of 16

O.D. / I.D. - 1.100"/.775"
Pressures - 66 @ 1.580"
175 @ 1.210"
237 @ 1.000"
Stock/Maximum Net Lift - .370"
.580"
Coil Bind - .950"
Rate (lbs./in.) - 294

[BogusSVO]

From..
Evo valve springs & 280 cams ?

Post #4

Originally Posted by donniekak

I will continue to put this info out there. I went to the machine shop with 32 evo springs. They were all around 45lbs at 1.550", and less than 150lbs over the nose of a 10mm lift cam, junk. Brand new stock replacement dsm springs were stronger. Used springs always lose pressure.

Cam choice for my setup and future setup looking for advice
Read post #32 #33


This link should be here too.... (Not about EVO springs)
Valve spring comparison- Stock, HKS, BC1100

[BogusSVO]

Manley 26115 <<<<< Kit Part number

Spring part # 22115-16
Retainer part # 23115-16


104 @ 1.580 seat

237 @ 1.210" outer spring
269 @ 1.120" Inner spring

Max lift .370

Coil bind 1.070

359 lbs/in

Manley Performance - Sport Compact - Mitsubishi - 4G63 / 4G64

[coltboostin]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

From..
Evo valve springs & 280 cams ?

Post #4




Cam choice for my setup and future setup looking for advice
Read post #32 #33


This link should be here too.... (Not about EVO springs)
Valve spring comparison- Stock, HKS, BC1100

I would REALLY question that tester- as I have NEVER seen an evo spring that low-ever! With hat little spring pressure, it would float with a stock cam @ 8k. Why can all these evos run 272's to 8500 with stock valve-train and no issue? Coincidence? I think not.

I am going to all but call those numbers bogus as I have tested 100's, and have NEVER seen number like that. Also consider that this does not take into effect the retainer. Further-I recommend people run a .060 shim if they are going over 8500 or with 280's. With the EVO's lower coil bind numbers, the spring bind is not effected unless you are running an extreme lift cam. the .060 Shim gets you to 80 psi seat pressure (with 3psi per spring looking at a used set). you can buy them at your local parts store- Search: valve springs shmims | Valve Spring Shim | AutoZone.com

Now- about the retainer, maybe the biggest reason this is a great upgrade.

Stock DSM 15.2g

Crower CM-8.5

Stock Evo 9 3.98 grams!!!!! That is weight that the spring does not need to lift every single valve event. Considering 8k RPM- thats 40,800 grams or 99 pounds worth of weight the spring does not have to contend with.



I just got off the phone with David Crower- "Every gram you can remove from the retainer, you gain 50 rpm in "usability" with all other factors being equal". This is also on a progressive scale" Meaning the higher the RPM, the greater the benefit of light valve train parts.

I have personally ran this set up to 8800rpm, making 710 whp with NO valve float.

So-higher spring tension, MUCH lighter retainer, and its not an upgrade? Call me crazy-but the results speak for themselves.

[BogusSVO]

Originally Posted by coltboostin

I would REALLY question that tester- as I have NEVER seen an evo spring that low-ever! With hat little spring pressure, it would float with a stock cam @ 8k. Why can all these evos run 272's to 8500 with stock valve-train and no issue? Coincidence? I think not.

I am going to all but call those numbers bogus as I have tested 100's, and have NEVER seen number like that. Also consider that this does not take into effect the retainer. Further-I recommend people run a .060 shim if they are going over 8500 or with 280's. With the EVO's lower coil bind numbers, the spring bind is not effected unless you are running an extreme lift cam. the .060 Shim gets you to 80 psi seat pressure (with 3psi per spring looking at a used set). you can buy them at your local parts store- Search: valve springs shmims | Valve Spring Shim | AutoZone.com

Now- about the retainer, maybe the biggest reason this is a great upgrade.

Stock DSM 15.2g

Crower CM-8.5

Stock Evo 9 3.98 grams!!!!! That is weight that the spring does not need to lift every single valve event. Considering 8k RPM- thats 40,800 grams or 99 pounds worth of weight the spring does not have to contend with.



I just got off the phone with David Crower- "Every gram you can remove from the retainer, you gain 50 rpm in "usability" with all other factors being equal". This is also on a progressive scale" Meaning the higher the RPM, the greater the benefit of light valve train parts.

I have personally ran this set up to 8800rpm, making 710 whp with NO valve float.

So-higher spring tension, MUCH lighter retainer, and its not an upgrade? Call me crazy-but the results speak for themselves.

Whose tester are you questioning? Mine? The one Donnie used?

Speaking of spring testers, what brand do you have?

No question the parts are lighter.

Now what installed height do you use? what seat pressure do you look for?
You say you have tested 100's of these springs.
But you have yet to find a bad set? or even a single bad spring?

I am sure you are right about alot of Evos running 272s, just like there are alot of DSMs running 272 on old wore out stock valve springs.
Just beascuse you get away with it doesn't make it right.

710 hp and 8800 rpm... cool....how long has it been together?

[coltboostin]

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

Whose tester are you questioning? Mine? The one Donnie used?

Donnie.

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

Speaking of spring testers, what brand do you have?

I have nothing. I used BR's machine shop units for the test. A COMP Cams 5313 and a Longacre Racing Products 73511 both within .5. They do a lot of BBC Alcohol motors, so they need big boy testers.

Originally Posted by BogusSVO

No question the parts are lighter.

Now what installed height do you use? what seat pressure do you look for?
You say you have tested 100's of these springs.
But you have yet to find a bad set? or even a single bad spring?

I am sure you are right about alot of Evos running 272s, just like there are alot of DSMs running 272 on old wore out stock valve springs.
Just beascuse you get away with it doesn't make it right.

710 hp and 8800 rpm... cool....how long has it been together?

Since Late 2005. This was the first car I tried the Evo springs on. Using Comp 101200's Went Mid 10's @151 mph (FWD) and was my DD. Motor was sold to a guy in FL who was taking it to 9k and more boost with no issues. I think this car is not a DD though- just Race and weekend street car. The motor has only had a head gasket changed since I put it together.

For me- the proof is in the pudding.

[BogusSVO]

Yes I bet they need big boy testers for setting up .600 lift and larger solid roller cams .

If it been working for you rock on!

From what few sets I have seen, and other info, I just do not see them as much benifit.

[BogusSVO]

Manley Spring kit # 26125

Manley Performance - Sport Compact - Mitsubishi - 4G63 / 4G64

Retainer part # 23125-16
Spring part # 22125-16

Closed 66 @ 1.580
Open 175 @ 1.210 = .370 lift
237 @1.00 = .580 Lift

Coil bind .950

[swifteagle]

What seat pressure are the bc at stock height?

[BogusSVO]

This info was orginaly posted in this thread.

Valve Spring Service Limit

Originally Posted by serviceguy

1G spring, part number MD139243 wire diameter 3.70 mm (0.1457 inch)
2G spring, part number MD185870 wire diameter 3.80 mm (0.1496 inch)

1G being part number MD139243 and 2G part number MD185870 then checked each related FSM and found out that 1Gs have a service limit of 47.3mm while 2Gs have a 46.00 mm service limit

[BogusSVO]

Manely Dual Valve springs

Dual Spring & Retainer Kit Specs:
O.D./I.D.: 1.160"/.870" .865"/.660"
Seat Pressure: 104 @ 1.580"
Open Pressure: 175 @ 1.210" 237 @ 1.000"
Stock/Max Lift: 0.370" 0.460"
Coil Bind: 1.070"
Rate (lbs./in.): 359
STM: MANLEY 4G63 SPRINGS & RETAINERS | EVO VIII-IX | 90-99 DSM

[G-UNIT]

Bogus, what about hks springs?

[BogusSVO]

These should have been linked here.

Valve spring comparison- Stock, HKS, BC1100



Valve spring comparison #2 - Evo VIII, Stock DSM, Manley, Brian Crower

[ariman]

Can I put delta k272 and rev upto 7000 rpm's with springs and retainers stock? or need upgrade springs and retainers.
Thanks

[BogusSVO]

Originally Posted by ariman

Can I put delta k272 and rev upto 7000 rpm's with springs and retainers stock? or need upgrade springs and retainers.
Thanks

Sines those are the Delta clones of the Kelford Cams 272, you would need the same spring upgrade as the "name brand" Kelfords

[slo2spool]

Not to bring up the thread again, but weight has A LOT to do with valvetrain behavior. Valvetrain that weighs more will be affected more be inertia than valvetrain that weighs less. I run a good set of stock evo 8 springs with stainless valves, and I lost quite a bit of valvetrain weight. I lost 37 grams per valve/spring/retainer with stainless valves and evo springs.