1g Awd system vs. STi symmetrical awd

fran_drivertsi · 08-29-2008, 04:17 PM

Hello.

I've driven my friends STi in winter, and it was very controllable while sliding sideways, going on icy/snow up hills and other things of that sort.

I know STi (and other Subaru’s too) have symmetrical AWD and that is the reason they perform so well in snow.

I have 92 awd, so I am curious what would be the difference in handling and overall car behavior on snow/ice comparing to the STi?

Thanks.

thewombis · 08-29-2008, 04:40 PM

I have ridden in both in snow, and I would say in terms of handling, they are very similar. Only different which i noticed was the turbo. I drove in a Legacy which is a non turbo, and I would imagine the only difference would be when the boost kicks in. No worries though as AWD takes care of the driving for you really... Just remember you DSM is a classic! No salt and snow for my baby..

BoostFrenzy · 08-29-2008, 04:45 PM

One of the major differences is that they are RWD based and we are FWD based. Plus, they can change their center differential settings electronically. Their system is more like the oil 4x4 trucks that many people use in such environments. No weather theirs is better in such a situation I am unsure of. Both have their pros and cons.

Pure_Power65 · 08-29-2008, 04:49 PM

what about a regular WRX? on them you cant change more power to the front or rear i know alot about them i had an 06 and was doing douhnuts in a parking lot very easy. havent had my DSM out that long being dam thing is overheating but i get about the same launch as my wrx had. and i was stage 2 but dsm is faster hehe

BoostFrenzy · 08-29-2008, 10:53 PM

Yup, a regular WRX is still RWD based. Any subi is RWD based because of the boxer 4 they use.

kanderson · 08-30-2008, 01:05 AM

They are not really RWD based because Subaru makes all their cars AWD, so there is no RWD variant to base it off of. The difference lies in the Subaru's engine being longitudinally mounted and ours being horizontally mounted. Also, they are both split 50/50 as far as I know (except for STI's), and the only major differences would come from different differential setups. And symmetrical AWD is just a name, sorta like Audi's quattro system.

"AWD takes care of the driving for you really",

Remember that having an AWD car doesn't improve braking, rather it makes it easier to attain faster speeds that will be more difficult to brake from, so always leave yourself room to brake.

4Motion4g63 · 08-30-2008, 01:54 AM

If I under stand right Our cars sorta split power 40/60 Left side 40 up front and 60 right
and in the rear its reverse of that 60/40 in the rear.........This is all from the Limited slip rear and the viscus cupler up front....I understand its so you dont get torque steer and scuffing while turning sharp corners * when the inside wheels are turning faster than the outside wheels....

Thats why you tend to have axle breaks on the drivers rear and pass front....

The subie 4x4 has even power distribution to all for but since they have a flat 4 motor it does not suffer from the same as most transverse mounted engines with torque steer.

DRAGIN · 08-30-2008, 06:29 AM

I have a standard 02 WRX and I much prefer the DSM AWD in the snow. Dont get me wrong, they both rock but AWD turbo 1G with snow tires is a monster in the snow. Fun fun fun.

Black_Bullet · 08-30-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Motion4g63

If I under stand right Our cars sorta split power 40/60 Left side 40 up front and 60 right
and in the rear its reverse of that 60/40 in the rear.........This is all from the Limited slip rear and the viscus cupler up front....I understand its so you dont get torque steer and scuffing while turning sharp corners * when the inside wheels are turning faster than the outside wheels....

Thats why you tend to have axle breaks on the drivers rear and pass front....

The subie 4x4 has even power distribution to all for but since they have a flat 4 motor it does not suffer from the same as most transverse mounted engines with torque steer.

I thought they were 40/60 and we were 50/50.
My friend has a 04 sti, his feels a lot more RWD biased, and mines feels more FWD biased, but under load when drifting in the sand or something once the LSD kicks in I can tell I get a lot of power sent to the back meaning I spin the front tires first.

pboglio · 08-30-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran_drivertsi

Hello.

I've driven my friends STi in winter, and it was very controllable while sliding sideways, going on icy/snow up hills and other things of that sort.

I know STi (and other Subaru’s too) have symmetrical AWD and that is the reason they perform so well in snow.

I have 92 awd, so I am curious what would be the difference in handling and overall car behavior on snow/ice comparing to the STi?

Thanks.

Try this next time. Take the STi around a slow speed corner at maybe 5-10 mph in really deep snow driving normally, and report back how well it handles. Your average driver is going to be going into a ditch nose first more often than not, even with dedicated winter tires.

A DSM handles much safer for winter duty.

need2boostpsi · 08-30-2008, 09:56 AM

i had an 06' wrx with some hefty bolt-ons for a vf-34 i was making almost 360whp and all i can say is that the subura transmission is the most expensive piece of crap, it must be 1000 couric's! the WRX TR has no LSD and i can say from a dig i was having some serious traction problems i ran a 12.2@114 with a 1.9 60'. i wouldn't consider the Subaru drivetrain any better. I'm still paying on my built RA-R tranny from two years ago!

fran_drivertsi · 08-30-2008, 12:02 PM

thanks for the feedback!

I am not going to take my talon to the dirt, but when winter comes, me and my bud on sti are going to humiliate those fwd scrubs

Where are my blizzaks?

Black_Bullet · 08-30-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need2boostpsi

i had an 06' wrx with some hefty bolt-ons for a vf-34 i was making almost 360whp and all i can say is that the subura transmission is the most expensive piece of crap, it must be 1000 couric's! the WRX TR has no LSD and i can say from a dig i was having some serious traction problems i ran a 12.2@114 with a 1.9 60'. i wouldn't consider the Subaru drivetrain any better. I'm still paying on my built RA-R tranny from two years ago!

The sti trannies are much stronger than the glass wrx tranny.
Id even consider the Sti drive train much stronger than these Dsm drivetrains.
They hold up pretty well considering the amount of torque those engines put thru them.
Imagen your stock dsm tranny holding up with a modded 2.5 turbo engine.

As far as traction, I think the dsm drivetrain has more traction than the Sti drivetrain, my car is a bit more predicatble than my friends Sti... Maybe thats just because im fwd biased, but say if both cars were pushed to the extreme on suspension side, his car would be faster in say an Autox or Rally...

A local Tampa dsmer ( lancerman ) who builds a lot of different stuff for people, and runs 10s or 9s now, I was reading that he used to run a 2.3 stroker and a maxed out 20g setup and he was ripping the teeth off of fourth gear every couple months just from highway pulls; and what made it worse is this was in a mirage which is way lighter, so he eventually concluded to swapping back to 2.0 and hasnt had any more gear sheering issues since.

Oh btw, make sure you guys are running good fluids in your drivetrains! Redline shock proof ftw

Defiant · 08-31-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Motion4g63

If I under stand right Our cars sorta split power 40/60 Left side 40 up front and 60 right
and in the rear its reverse of that 60/40 in the rear.........This is all from the Limited slip rear and the viscus cupler up front....I understand its so you dont get torque steer and scuffing while turning sharp corners * when the inside wheels are turning faster than the outside wheels....

Thats why you tend to have axle breaks on the drivers rear and pass front....

No, you do not "under stand right". DSMs are 50/50.
[RESOLVED] How does AWD work? [Merged 9-7] torque split division slip drive

Pure_Power65 · 08-31-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need2boostpsi

i had an 06' wrx with some hefty bolt-ons for a vf-34 i was making almost 360whp and all i can say is that the subura transmission is the most expensive piece of crap, it must be 1000 couric's! the WRX TR has no LSD and i can say from a dig i was having some serious traction problems i ran a 12.2@114 with a 1.9 60'. i wouldn't consider the Subaru drivetrain any better. I'm still paying on my built RA-R tranny from two years ago!

on my 06 tr i ran a 13.3@100 and a 1.6 60' i messed up 3rd wouldnt go in dam thing. even had a short shifter it was cobb stage 2 minus the catback and on stock turbo.

and defiant thats awesome i love 50/50 good looking out. i can lauch the hell out of an awd car anyday.

need2boostpsi · 08-31-2008, 09:58 AM

yeah third was the gear that went on my wrx, i was just passing another car and it popped out and wouldn't go back in. when i lost my tranny it was Cobb stage II and i was running 13's aswell. The RA-R i had built was a sti 5-speed tranny that was much stronger.